ERZ HFC Performance

hfrog355 · 06-17-2010, 03:55 PM

After much deliberation and reading around these parts, I've settled on ERZ to provide high flow cats. Berk was the early leader for this modification as just about everyone seems to have them around here and only positive remarks seem to follow. Upon further digging, I have found the ERZ product to be every bit as highly regarded with only a slight issue brought up about some of the finishing early in their production. I've been led to believe that issue has been resolved. With all other things being equal, I can save a good bit of money buying the ERZ cats over the Berks and expect reasonably similar performance. There is just this one thing still bugging my OCD...

I've read several very well done threads on these cats by bluestyle55 and spearfish25 (thank you very much, guys) who gave the product very high marks but am still left wondering if anyone has come up with some numbers around performance gains for this product. The search feature doesn't seem to like short phrases (i.e. ERZ) and so searching for the item has been difficult. Has anyone been able to dyno this mod or make an educated guess at the gains for this piece? It's not a deal breaker, but I'm curious to know.

It seems to reason that gains are similar to what would be expected with the Stillen or Berk since the construction between them seems so consistent, so I would imagine something in the way of 12-15 whp. Even if the output is less than those manufacturers, the significant price break and great sound is more than enough to get me to pull the trigger on the product.

This is where I'm looking for comment: The only two things that would stop me from pulling the trigger on these would be:
1) if someone had a case to make about them losing power - unacceptable for me
2) if I could get a great deal on some used Berk or Stillen pieces. (Sad I missed out on DIGItonium's firesale)

Thanks!

P.S. Vendors, feel free to PM me with some pricing if you feel so inclined. Shipping to Dallas.

daleks · 06-17-2010, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hfrog355

It seems to reason that gains are similar to what would be expected with the Stillen or Berk since the construction between them seems so consistent, so I would imagine something in the way of 12-15 whp. Even if the output is less than those manufacturers, the significant price break and great sound is more than enough to get me to pull the trigger on the product.

The performance will be similar across most products since the limiting factor is the cell count of the converter. Most of them are 200 or 300 cell. That said, I suggest you focus primarily on construction quality. HFC's are heat cycled constantly and the welds need to stand up to that process. Plus, all of the parts should be properly welded and checked for fitment against a jig. If the HFC is poorly constructed, then it may cause fitment issues with your headers and exhaust. One area I suggest you pay particular attention to is if the flanges are flat or curved. An easy way to check is to place the flange against something flat (granite tile, non-wooden desk, etc.) and look at it from the side. No light should peek through and the HFC shouldn't rock on the flange.

My point? All of these products cost <$500, which is cheap for a worthwhile performance mod. Pick the nicest one and move on. I have Berk HFC's and couldn't be happier.

spearfish25 · 06-18-2010, 04:48 PM

I have my ERZ HFCs mounted to my Stillen exhaust without any problems. They've also withstood their first Chicago winter and still look new when I crawl under the car.

None of these HFC options are flawless. Google around for the Berk HFCs and you'll find a number of threads where the cores were burnt out or people have been throwing CELs. Given that fact, I couldn't justify buying Berks over the ERZs. Now that I've committed to the ERZs, I couldn't be more pleased. I saved some cash, got all the benefits of the HFC addition, and haven't thrown a CEL in 3,000mi. Could they fail or throw a CEL tomorrow? Sure. But so could a set of Stillens, Berks, or FIs. In the end, they are a great budget item which has no shortcomings that I can find thus far. If you want to feel like you bought the best, then you can always spend more money for a product that may ultimately perform exactly the same.

Zsteve · 06-18-2010, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spearfish25

I have my ERZ HFCs mounted to my Stillen exhaust without any problems. They've also withstood their first Chicago winter and still look new when I crawl under the car.

None of these HFC options are flawless. Google around for the Berk HFCs and you'll find a number of threads where the cores were burnt out or people have been throwing CELs. Given that fact, I couldn't justify buying Berks over the ERZs. Now that I've committed to the ERZs, I couldn't be more pleased. I saved some cash, got all the benefits of the HFC addition, and haven't thrown a CEL in 3,000mi. Could they fail or throw a CEL tomorrow? Sure. But so could a set of Stillens, Berks, or FIs. In the end, they are a great budget item which has no shortcomings that I can find thus far. If you want to feel like you bought the best, then you can always spend more money for a product that may ultimately perform exactly the same.

More money isnt always better, so I think the ERZs are a very product. Only time will tell on how the stand the test of time compared to the other companies out there.

bradz · 06-18-2010, 06:00 PM

One member here had them dynoed before and after ERZ installed and gained 12whp.

spearfish25 · 06-18-2010, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zsteve

Only time will tell on how the stand the test of time compared to the other companies out there.

I believe I was either the first or second guy to install these on the site. I'll keep people posted if I ever run into an issue. So far, nadda.

Zsteve · 06-18-2010, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spearfish25

I believe I was either the first or second guy to install these on the site. I'll keep people posted if I ever run into an issue. So far, nadda.

None for me either and Ive already put a couple thousand miles on them.

djpathfinder · 06-18-2010, 08:09 PM

A potential "negative" of HFC's in general (other than throwing a CEL) is louder and deeper exhaust note...this is subjective obviously. Many, including me, love the richness it brings to the exhaust note. If you did your research, I'm sure you have seen Bluestyle55's writeup here and Youtube video with dB readings. Can you live with the new sound?

modme · 06-18-2010, 08:23 PM

Just from personal experience, the ERZ product's quality is nowhere near that of Berks. I had Berks installed for a while and wanted to try the ERZ as a possible replacement. When it arrived, the quality was s**t compared to my berks. The welding inside the pipe is a nightmare. There are jagged edges and random welding beads, which will affect the exhaust flow. The flange that meets up with the headers was not perfectly flat. It is slightly convex shaped. If I were to install that on my car, I was sure there would be leaks. So I ended up returning them.

Zsteve · 06-18-2010, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by modme

Just from personal experience, the ERZ product's quality is nowhere near that of Berks. I had Berks installed for a while and wanted to try the ERZ as a possible replacement. When it arrived, the quality was s**t compared to my berks. The welding inside the pipe is a nightmare. There are jagged edges and random welding beads, which will affect the exhaust flow. The flange that meets up with the headers was not perfectly flat. It is slightly convex shaped. If I were to install that on my car, I was sure there would be leaks. So I ended up returning them.

Mine looked kinda the same but as long as they do what they are suppose to do looks dont matter when they are hidden under the car. Even if they did have welds inside they wont affect flow to a point of making any difference in power. money for bling isnt always a good thing, sometimes just good ole ordinary looking works just as good as bling bling and for alot less. Ive had no leaks or cels and the only thing I will wait for is the longevity of the cats.

nolan1016 · 06-19-2010, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zsteve

Mine looked kinda the same but as long as they do what they are suppose to do looks dont matter when they are hidden under the car. Even if they did have welds inside they wont affect flow to a point of making any difference in power. money for bling isnt always a good thing, sometimes just good ole ordinary looking works just as good as bling bling and for alot less. Ive had no leaks or cels and the only thing I will wait for is the longevity of the cats.

Most of the time money buys quality simple as that. There is a reason these cats are 300 dollars cheaper, if ERZ could sell them for that much they would.

Zsteve · 06-19-2010, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nolan1016

Most of the time money buys quality simple as that. There is a reason these cats are 300 dollars cheaper, if ERZ could sell them for that much they would.

you are forgetting about mass production and hand production when it comes to price. ERZ is mass produced overseas while Fi and Berk are hand made or done by small companies and that caused prices to raise. I bet the ERZ and the others will all fair the same, HFCs fail eventually anyway. I think you can find plenty of examples where something that cost more doesnt do better than the cheaper ones and Im not just talking car products but all products. More money doesnt always mean better.

Daishi · 06-19-2010, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zsteve

you are forgetting about mass production and hand production when it comes to price. ERZ is mass produced overseas while Fi and Berk are hand made or done by small companies and that caused prices to raise. I bet the ERZ and the others will all fair the same, HFCs fail eventually anyway. I think you can find plenty of examples where something that cost more doesnt do better than the cheaper ones and Im not just talking car products but all products. More money doesnt always mean better.

Not always but most of the time yes.. I can vouch for FI's attention to detail as well..

nolan1016 · 06-19-2010, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zsteve

you are forgetting about mass production and hand production when it comes to price. ERZ is mass produced overseas while Fi and Berk are hand made or done by small companies and that caused prices to raise. I bet the ERZ and the others will all fair the same, HFCs fail eventually anyway. I think you can find plenty of examples where something that cost more doesnt do better than the cheaper ones and Im not just talking car products but all products. More money doesnt always mean better.

Thats true, and how many times as money bought superior quality and longevity. There will always be exceptions but its like anything, TV, appliances. You never know until it fails

daleks · 06-19-2010, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zsteve

you are forgetting about mass production and hand production when it comes to price. ERZ is mass produced overseas while Fi and Berk are hand made or done by small companies and that caused prices to raise. I bet the ERZ and the others will all fair the same, HFCs fail eventually anyway. I think you can find plenty of examples where something that cost more doesnt do better than the cheaper ones and Im not just talking car products but all products. More money doesnt always mean better.

Mass produced? What are you talking about? The products are made overseas the same way they are made here: a human being holding a welder. Or are you arguing that ERZ has a factory full of automated robots? Or maybe there is a huge benefit by having one welder just for the triple bolt flange and another for the Y-pipe side? Separation of responsibilities leads to a narrower, but more efficient work process? Right...

Quality construction matters to most people, even if it doesn't have a functional impact. No one is saying that for $300 you don't get a functional product, but why are you trying to say that it is just as good as the $500 products? It's not. At that price point you don't have pitted and warped flanges, misaligned bolt holes for the cross support, and crooked welds.

06-17-2010, 03:55 PM	#1 (permalink)
hfrog355 Base Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Texas Posts: 213 Drives: 2009 370Z Touring Rep Power: 15	ERZ HFC Performance After much deliberation and reading around these parts, I've settled on ERZ to provide high flow cats. Berk was the early leader for this modification as just about everyone seems to have them around here and only positive remarks seem to follow. Upon further digging, I have found the ERZ product to be every bit as highly regarded with only a slight issue brought up about some of the finishing early in their production. I've been led to believe that issue has been resolved. With all other things being equal, I can save a good bit of money buying the ERZ cats over the Berks and expect reasonably similar performance. There is just this one thing still bugging my OCD... I've read several very well done threads on these cats by bluestyle55 and spearfish25 (thank you very much, guys) who gave the product very high marks but am still left wondering if anyone has come up with some numbers around performance gains for this product. The search feature doesn't seem to like short phrases (i.e. ERZ) and so searching for the item has been difficult. Has anyone been able to dyno this mod or make an educated guess at the gains for this piece? It's not a deal breaker, but I'm curious to know. It seems to reason that gains are similar to what would be expected with the Stillen or Berk since the construction between them seems so consistent, so I would imagine something in the way of 12-15 whp. Even if the output is less than those manufacturers, the significant price break and great sound is more than enough to get me to pull the trigger on the product. This is where I'm looking for comment: The only two things that would stop me from pulling the trigger on these would be: 1) if someone had a case to make about them losing power - unacceptable for me 2) if I could get a great deal on some used Berk or Stillen pieces. (Sad I missed out on DIGItonium's firesale) Thanks! P.S. Vendors, feel free to PM me with some pricing if you feel so inclined. Shipping to Dallas. __________________ 2009 7AT Touring - Black on black VentureShield; F1 Tint; Stealth Signals; LED backup + trunk lights; Stillen HFC; MR Works Headlights; VHT tails; GTR Start Button

06-18-2010, 04:48 PM	#3 (permalink)
spearfish25 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Naples, FL Posts: 4,117 Drives: to work Rep Power: 1856	I have my ERZ HFCs mounted to my Stillen exhaust without any problems. They've also withstood their first Chicago winter and still look new when I crawl under the car. None of these HFC options are flawless. Google around for the Berk HFCs and you'll find a number of threads where the cores were burnt out or people have been throwing CELs. Given that fact, I couldn't justify buying Berks over the ERZs. Now that I've committed to the ERZs, I couldn't be more pleased. I saved some cash, got all the benefits of the HFC addition, and haven't thrown a CEL in 3,000mi. Could they fail or throw a CEL tomorrow? Sure. But so could a set of Stillens, Berks, or FIs. In the end, they are a great budget item which has no shortcomings that I can find thus far. If you want to feel like you bought the best, then you can always spend more money for a product that may ultimately perform exactly the same. __________________ 2013 Cadillac V-Wagon, RIP Z

06-18-2010, 08:09 PM	#8 (permalink)
djpathfinder A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Edmonton, Canada Posts: 12,910 Drives: 2012 GT-R BE Rep Power: 733	A potential "negative" of HFC's in general (other than throwing a CEL) is louder and deeper exhaust note...this is subjective obviously. Many, including me, love the richness it brings to the exhaust note. If you did your research, I'm sure you have seen Bluestyle55's writeup here and Youtube video with dB readings. Can you live with the new sound? __________________ 2012 GT-R Black Edition Jet Black 2010 370Z 40th Anniversary // SOLD

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06-18-2010, 06:00 PM	#5 (permalink)
bradz Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pinellas County Florida Posts: 348 Drives: 09' 370z MB 6spd Rep Power: 16	One member here had them dynoed before and after ERZ installed and gained 12whp.

06-18-2010, 08:23 PM	#9 (permalink)
modme Enthusiast Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: NY Posts: 345 Drives: G37 Rep Power: 16	Just from personal experience, the ERZ product's quality is nowhere near that of Berks. I had Berks installed for a while and wanted to try the ERZ as a possible replacement. When it arrived, the quality was s**t compared to my berks. The welding inside the pipe is a nightmare. There are jagged edges and random welding beads, which will affect the exhaust flow. The flange that meets up with the headers was not perfectly flat. It is slightly convex shaped. If I were to install that on my car, I was sure there would be leaks. So I ended up returning them.