Intake, Header, HFC, CBE = Too Lean?

Smallywood · 03-23-2010, 09:35 PM

Anyone running all 4 items? I hear that if you run all 4 parts you will lean the car out too much. Any feedback from members running or that have tried this set-up?

NewlyIMPORTed · 03-23-2010, 10:27 PM

idk alot of people are running HFC CBE CAI though im curious to find this out too

spearfish25 · 03-23-2010, 10:28 PM

Stillen guys told me that all 4 will make you run too lean. Thus, you'll need a tune.

NewlyIMPORTed · 03-23-2010, 10:28 PM

are you fine just running three though? haha

spearfish25 · 03-23-2010, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewlyIMPORTed

are you fine just running three though? haha

According to them, yes. Three is fine, four is not without a tune.

Zsteve · 03-23-2010, 10:44 PM

when I first got my car the exhaust would get some black gook on the intake tips, I guess it was running a tad rich but after the CBE and K&N drop ins, no black gook so Its running a little lean just with that. Cobb access port on the way, wed maybe.

NewlyIMPORTed · 03-23-2010, 10:47 PM

dang i guess after I install the agency power exhaust i will be getting a tune

Supergoji · 03-23-2010, 11:01 PM

i thought the all powerful nissan ecu would add fuel when needed?

F.I. Inc. · 03-23-2010, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smallywood

Anyone running all 4 items? I hear that if you run all 4 parts you will lean the car out too much. Any feedback from members running or that have tried this set-up?

I have done extensive dyno testing and I can tell you with our headers and CBE the car does not run too lean. However, when you throw Stillen Gen III intakes into the equation it will need a re tune. The A/F will be way out of whack and in the mid to high 13 ratio!

Just to prove my point about not being too lean look at the A/F dyno chart here. This dyno chart is from my LTH thread. You can see the comparison between our HFC/CBE vs. our LTH's/CBE:

One more thing I would like to add. From just a performance standpoint, I feel that any aftermarket intake for this car is a WASTE of money.

From all of the dyno testing we have done, the gains have been very minimal and in most cases next to none! I have dyno charts that shows a car losing mid range power and some torque in trade of 3 horsepower up top.

For $500+ and the time or money to install it, I feel that you can spend your money elsewhere. Buy the K&N drop ins and call it a day!

If anyone has any questions comments or concerns PLEASE do not hesitate to ask. I can show dyno charts with many different combinations. What I can tell you is that the stock intakes do the job just fine... even with long tube headers installed.

Thank you,

Tony

Xan · 03-23-2010, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F.I. Inc.

One more thing I would like to add. From just a performance standpoint, I feel that any aftermarket intake for this car is a WASTE of money.

From all of the dyno testing we have done, the gains have been very minimal and in most cases next to none! I have dyno charts that shows a car losing mid range power and some torque in trade of 3 horsepower up top.

For $500+ and the time or money to install it, I feel that you can spend your money elsewhere. Buy the K&N drop ins and call it a day!

If anyone has any questions comments or concerns PLEASE do not hesitate to ask. I can show dyno charts with many different combinations. What I can tell you is that the stock intakes do the job just fine... even with long tube headers installed.

How come some threads and also Stillen are claiming impressive gains from the G3?

m4a1mustang · 03-23-2010, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xan

How come some threads and also Stillen are claiming impressive gains from the G3?

That's over stock, so they aren't going to show those high gains on a car that's already got exhaust mods done.

I'll take the other side and say they ARE worth it if you stay N/A as they help you eek out that last bit of power for your dyno numbers and sound really cool, but even with 18 whp gains over stock, you'll never feel it. Just look at that Stillen graph... the stock air boxes are super efficient 'til nearly redline (I think the stock pull on that Stillen graph is a little misleading -- it shouldn't fall flat on it's face like that at 6.5K) so the gains you see on paper can't really be felt because they're at the very end of the rev range.

F.I. Inc. · 03-24-2010, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xan

How come some threads and also Stillen are claiming impressive gains from the G3?

The numbers are impressive with a stock exhaust! Look at the numbers, this is a stock baseline. So the Stillen intakes uncork power in a stock exhaust application. Congratulations to all of those who are running around with a stock exhaust and Stillen Gen III intakes. I know I am sounding a little hostile and for coming off that way I apologize to you ahead of time!

The bottom line (dyno proven) once you change the exhaust system you free up the almost all of the power & torque. (I said almost all) Then you do the intakes, you will see they are not doing much of anything until close to 7000 RPM's! Like I said, I have seen cases where you lose some low end and mid range. We all know usable power is 3500-6800 RPM's, not 7000-7300!

Thank you, Tony

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

That's over stock, so they aren't going to show those high gains on a car that's already got exhaust mods done.

I'll take the other side and say they ARE worth it if you stay N/A as they help you eek out that last bit of power for your dyno numbers and sound really cool, but even with 18 whp gains over stock, you'll never feel it. Just look at that Stillen graph... the stock air boxes are super efficient 'til nearly redline (I think the stock pull on that Stillen graph is a little misleading -- it shouldn't fall flat on it's face like that at 6.5K) so the gains you see on paper can't really be felt because they're at the very end of the rev range.

You took the words right out of my mouth...

Tony

LateralG'z · 03-24-2010, 12:28 AM

I am betting they make a justifiable difference if you run the car at a track where the engine bay is hotter than normal driving conditions and they are actually pulling colder out from in the front of the car instead of in the engine bay. Basing things from a dyno is only a small part in the initial performance gains while getting things tuned to help have the motor run at better conditions because everything there is suppose to be in near perfect conditions. Not to mention a fan blowing air at 15 mph is not same as the car moving faster than 15 mph. A fan to keep the car from over heating from a 15 second pull is not a great test to base off of for intakes. If you do a couple of consecutive pulls, you will watch the horse go down as car generate heats. Add these long intakes and I bet you see better gains than stock ones once the car is a more severe condition than perfect dyno temps. I know you can prove that and are aware of it F.I. Inc. and I know it is true because I was an intern for Dynojet in Belgrade, MT when I was in college in Bozeman. I have seen more than a enough dyno runs and pulls and data to say if you run the car for more than 60 seconds hard and get the car hot that any sort of descent CAI that can bring in colder air to the engine helps teh performance. Thus the point of an intercooler on a S/C or Turbo set-up. Kind of common sense if anyone thinks about it, and yes the stock intakes are great for OEM but things can always be better than OEM to help squeeze extra juice out of NA motor.

Nikon FM · 03-24-2010, 12:35 AM

Nice thread!

I'm running the Res Test pipes with the CBE (both F. I.) including K&N filters. If I was to go to the long tube headers there may be a too lean scenario? Getting a tune then would be the fix and provide a nice addition down at the mid + RPM range?

I'm curious how much more a tune would provide with my current set up as well.

m4a1mustang · 03-24-2010, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LateralG'z

I am betting they make a justifiable difference if you run the car at a track where the engine bay is hotter than normal driving conditions and they are actually pulling colder out from in the front of the car instead of in the engine bay. Basing things from a dyno is only a small part in the initial performance gains while getting things tuned to help have the motor run at better conditions because everything there is suppose to be in near perfect conditions. Not to mention a fan blowing air at 15 mph is not same as the car moving faster than 15 mph. A fan to keep the car from over heating from a 15 second pull is not a great test to base off of for intakes. If you do a couple of consecutive pulls, you will watch the horse go down as car generate heats. Add these long intakes and I bet you see better gains than stock ones once the car is a more severe condition than perfect dyno temps. I know you can prove that and are aware of it F.I. Inc. and I know it is true because I was an intern for Dynojet in Belgrade, MT when I was in college in Bozeman. I have seen more than a enough dyno runs and pulls and data to say if you run the car for more than 60 seconds hard and get the car hot that any sort of descent CAI that can bring in colder air to the engine helps teh performance. Thus the point of an intercooler on a S/C or Turbo set-up. Kind of common sense if anyone thinks about it, and yes the stock intakes are great for OEM but things can always be better than OEM to help squeeze extra juice out of NA motor.

The stock air boxes are cold air intakes. They isolate the filters from the heat of the engine bay and source cold air from outside... the same air that the Injens and G3s breathe.

The reason the Injens and G3s gain at the very end of the range is because the stock system becomes slightly restrictive beyond ~7k RPM.

Temperature wise, the G3s/Injens/Stock should all be very similar as they are all sourcing air from the same place.

03-23-2010, 09:35 PM	#1 (permalink)
Smallywood Track Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 501 Drives: 12 GT-R BlackEdition Rep Power: 17	Intake, Header, HFC, CBE = Too Lean? Anyone running all 4 items? I hear that if you run all 4 parts you will lean the car out too much. Any feedback from members running or that have tried this set-up? __________________

03-23-2010, 10:27 PM	#2 (permalink)
NewlyIMPORTed A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: Kennesaw, GA Posts: 1,109 Drives: 11 STI Sedan Rep Power: 18	idk alot of people are running HFC CBE CAI though im curious to find this out too __________________ 2011 WRX STICobb Accessport, Nameless Performance exhaust, COBB SF Intake, COBB downpipe, 20% tint, Work Emotion XD9's

03-23-2010, 10:28 PM	#3 (permalink)
spearfish25 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Naples, FL Posts: 4,117 Drives: to work Rep Power: 1856	Stillen guys told me that all 4 will make you run too lean. Thus, you'll need a tune. __________________ 2013 Cadillac V-Wagon, RIP Z

03-23-2010, 10:28 PM	#4 (permalink)
NewlyIMPORTed A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: Kennesaw, GA Posts: 1,109 Drives: 11 STI Sedan Rep Power: 18	are you fine just running three though? haha __________________ 2011 WRX STICobb Accessport, Nameless Performance exhaust, COBB SF Intake, COBB downpipe, 20% tint, Work Emotion XD9's

03-23-2010, 10:44 PM	#6 (permalink)
Zsteve A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: TX Posts: 3,298 Drives: the 2 balled club Rep Power: 22	when I first got my car the exhaust would get some black gook on the intake tips, I guess it was running a tad rich but after the CBE and K&N drop ins, no black gook so Its running a little lean just with that. Cobb access port on the way, wed maybe. __________________ 2010 LS3 C6 Silver coupe corvette

03-23-2010, 10:47 PM	#7 (permalink)
NewlyIMPORTed A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: Kennesaw, GA Posts: 1,109 Drives: 11 STI Sedan Rep Power: 18	dang i guess after I install the agency power exhaust i will be getting a tune __________________ 2011 WRX STICobb Accessport, Nameless Performance exhaust, COBB SF Intake, COBB downpipe, 20% tint, Work Emotion XD9's

03-23-2010, 11:01 PM	#8 (permalink)
Supergoji Enthusiast Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Westchester NY Age: 35 Posts: 311 Drives: Z32tt / Supra tt Rep Power: 256	i thought the all powerful nissan ecu would add fuel when needed?

03-24-2010, 12:28 AM	#13 (permalink)
LateralG'z Track Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 876 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 16	I am betting they make a justifiable difference if you run the car at a track where the engine bay is hotter than normal driving conditions and they are actually pulling colder out from in the front of the car instead of in the engine bay. Basing things from a dyno is only a small part in the initial performance gains while getting things tuned to help have the motor run at better conditions because everything there is suppose to be in near perfect conditions. Not to mention a fan blowing air at 15 mph is not same as the car moving faster than 15 mph. A fan to keep the car from over heating from a 15 second pull is not a great test to base off of for intakes. If you do a couple of consecutive pulls, you will watch the horse go down as car generate heats. Add these long intakes and I bet you see better gains than stock ones once the car is a more severe condition than perfect dyno temps. I know you can prove that and are aware of it F.I. Inc. and I know it is true because I was an intern for Dynojet in Belgrade, MT when I was in college in Bozeman. I have seen more than a enough dyno runs and pulls and data to say if you run the car for more than 60 seconds hard and get the car hot that any sort of descent CAI that can bring in colder air to the engine helps teh performance. Thus the point of an intercooler on a S/C or Turbo set-up. Kind of common sense if anyone thinks about it, and yes the stock intakes are great for OEM but things can always be better than OEM to help squeeze extra juice out of NA motor. __________________ 2010 Mag Black, 6MT,

03-24-2010, 12:35 AM	#14 (permalink)
Nikon FM Track Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Snoqualmie WA Posts: 973 Drives: 03 996TT Porsche Rep Power: 606	Nice thread! I'm running the Res Test pipes with the CBE (both F. I.) including K&N filters. If I was to go to the long tube headers there may be a too lean scenario? Getting a tune then would be the fix and provide a nice addition down at the mid + RPM range? I'm curious how much more a tune would provide with my current set up as well. __________________ Buddy Revell: "One man's sooner is another man's later"

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