Fast Intentions Long Tube Headers are here!

shumby · 06-11-2010, 02:17 PM

Well guys just puting this out there if you are planing on going the SC route do not get these headers they do not work with the SC setup

theDreamer · 06-11-2010, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shumby

Well guys just puting this out there if you are planing on going the SC route do not get these headers they do not work with the SC setup

That is really the wrong thing to say, they do not help right now because the tuning process for this car is not complete, and should not be used until that timed when combined with a supercharger.

shumby · 06-11-2010, 02:23 PM

well it is the right thing to say as no one has the VVEL figured out yet. so yes 100% LTH + SC = Fail

it is that simple.

NYBladeZ · 06-14-2010, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shumby

well it is the right thing to say as no one has the VVEL figured out yet. so yes 100% LTH + SC = Fail

it is that simple.

As of right now this statement is correct, but it's due largely to the tuning limitation rather than the design of the piece.

For those who will stay N/A and build the engine first the LTH's are great.

Frankly it's very sad that many exhaust and intake mods are limited in their gains due to the inability to crack VVEL but I'm sure eventually someone will get it though it might require a standalone.

vipor · 06-11-2010, 04:03 PM

However, you will not end up scrapping these headers if you choose to SC down the line

cotizi · 06-14-2010, 01:45 PM

So I finally got these installed this past weekend and have put some miles on it. Question for those who have installed these already:

Does yours hiss like crazy? There's always been that deceleration hiss from the FI catback which ive come to know for awhile, but now its all over the place, deceleration, acceleration, WOT, whatever, there isn't really a throttle position or RPM where it isn't making the noise. At first I thought it was something loose, but after removing and reinstalling the section between the resonators and LTH the sound is definately comming from the resonator section or the muffler section after that.

I watched Semtex's video but he has the stillen catback so I don't think its a fair comparison. Tony's video doesn't have nearly the amount of noise im getting with mine, but im wondering if thats just from the recording or what.

Daishi · 06-14-2010, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cotizi

So I finally got these installed this past weekend and have put some miles on it. Question for those who have installed these already:

Does yours hiss like crazy? There's always been that deceleration hiss from the FI catback which ive come to know for awhile, but now its all over the place, deceleration, acceleration, WOT, whatever, there isn't really a throttle position or RPM where it isn't making the noise. At first I thought it was something loose, but after removing and reinstalling the section between the resonators and LTH the sound is definately comming from the resonator section or the muffler section after that.

I watched Semtex's video but he has the stillen catback so I don't think its a fair comparison. Tony's video doesn't have nearly the amount of noise im getting with mine, but im wondering if thats just from the recording or what.

Even before the LTH's I had a hissing noise even on acceleration. Theres just too much flow in the exhaust system and the x pipe makes it worse because of all the flow it hisses once the exhaust gases meet at the x pipe. Jack your car up and turn it on have someone rev it a little while you put your hands over the flanges and check for any air leaks. Careful not to burn yourself. Mines not leaking what so ever ive checked a million times already. Theres no rasp or hiss out the back of the mufflers but its easily noticeable from the side of the car or when the windows are open.

cotizi · 06-14-2010, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daishi

Even before the LTH's I had a hissing noise even on acceleration. Theres just too much flow in the exhaust system and the x pipe makes it worse because of all the flow it hisses once the exhaust gases meet at the x pipe. Jack your car up and turn it on have someone rev it a little while you put your hands over the flanges and check for any air leaks. Careful not to burn yourself. Mines not leaking what so ever ive checked a million times already. Theres no rasp or hiss out the back of the mufflers but its easily noticeable from the side of the car or when the windows are open.

I noticed this as well. Standing behind it in my driveway all you hear is narly exhaust note that sounds awesome, but the second you get next to it its the opposite, just hiss. When driving with the windows up I hear it all the time coming from what seems like under the spare tire area.

Jamaica · 06-14-2010, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cotizi

I noticed this as well. Standing behind it in my driveway all you hear is narly exhaust note that sounds awesome, but the second you get next to it its the opposite, just hiss. When driving with the windows up I hear it all the time coming from what seems like under the spare tire area.

is the hiss getting annoying? does it sound bad? hopefully you feel the power

cotizi · 06-14-2010, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamaica951

is the hiss getting annoying? does it sound bad? hopefully you feel the power

Power yes, I uninstalled my intakes awhile back, and this weekend I went from just Catback to Catback + Intakes + LTH and their is absolutely a big difference. I'm taking the car in to get tuned by Uprev HQ soon and will post final dyno numbers after tune is complete.

I honestly didn't know the sound would change so much and the hissing noise would overpower the exhaust note so much. I don't like it. The physics behind it make sense, as now that there is more flow through the exhaust, the hissy-ness of the x-pipe would only get worse. I'll try and take a video of what I'm talking about tomorrow. Hopefully the audio equipment can do it justice.

I'm glad the Z isn't my daily driver, because it would get old fast. From some of the other stuff I've read on here, its a factor of the car itself, and is prevalent with other exhaust as well, not just FI's. I think the long tube headers just bring attention to something that I didn't notice nearly as bad when I just had the cat-back.

Daishi · 06-14-2010, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cotizi

I noticed this as well. Standing behind it in my driveway all you hear is narly exhaust note that sounds awesome, but the second you get next to it its the opposite, just hiss. When driving with the windows up I hear it all the time coming from what seems like under the spare tire area.

Yup because the hiss sounds like it's coming from the x pipe area. That's what your hearing your seat is basically slightly infront of the xpipe.

vipor · 06-14-2010, 10:49 PM

So the people that are hearing the hissing also have the FI CBE?

theDreamer · 06-17-2010, 11:03 AM

Sent you a PM Tony.

F.I. Inc. · 06-17-2010, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theDreamer

Sent you a PM Tony.

I got it and my next reply should answer it.

F.I. Inc. · 06-17-2010, 12:16 PM

A must read for all long tube header owners thinking of adding the GTM supercharger kit:

I wanted to chime in real bad on the GTM supercharger thread. But I have bit my tongue and out of respect for Sam and GTM I will do this in my own thread.

There is alot of talk going around that my headers "flow too well" for the HR motor due to the VVEL with the long duration and overlap.

Shumby now is a proud owner of the GTM supercharger kit for his G37 and has removed our headers due to a lack of boost and power with them. I cannot sit here for any longer and let my headers take the abuse for something else that is causing the issue. I feel that it is not a tuning issue. I feel that it is a hardware issue, i.e. the supercharger itself or the kit.

Here is the deal, headers relieve back pressure. By relieving back pressure you will have a PSI drop off (boost). The goal should be to make as a much torque and power on as little boost as possible. This is called "efficiency".

I have never in my life ever, ever, ever, installed a supercharger on a car along with headers and lost power. The only way it is possible is if the supercharger kit is inefficient. This leads me into the next phase of the topic.

I have spoke to Shumby myself over the phone and here is the information I was given:

Tony, we supercharged the car and with the headers installed along with your exhaust it only made 4 psi. Then we put a smaller pulley on it and only picked up 15 horsepower and very little boost. I was never given the boost number I might add and I don't think Shumby was either. Then I was told the headers were removed and stock manifolds along with stock cats were installed. I was told at this point the car made 6-1/2 psi. So then they took the stock cats back off and put the GTM straight test pipes on the car. Same result, the psi dropped back to a very close place to the headers. No doubt, the stock cats are much more restrictive than the long tube headers or even straight test pipes. So now the stock cats were put back on the car and oh but wait, a boost leak was found. But I was told it was minimal. Either way it is force induction and a leak is detrimental to boost and power! So naturally I asked, after the leak was rectified did you put the headers back on the car a dyno it again. The answer was no we did not!

I want to see an 8 psi stock cat, stock manifold number vs. FI long tube header 8 psi number. I would bet the farm that apples compared to apples we would make higher number across the board. If you cannot get the boost back up with the long tube headers than the supercharger itself cannot move enough volume AKA (CFM) or the supercharger kit itself is holding it back. Size of intercooler, tubing size, the way tubing is routed. A good way to see if the intercooler is efficient is to take a psi reading before it as well as after it. If the psi drop off is dramatic after it than the intercooler is not efficient. If the intercooler is efficient than it is most likely the head unit itself. It physically is just too small and cannot support enough volume to feed to motor. Bottom line you then rely on the stock cats to build the boost.

Here is where the problem lyes with that. Boost is heat and the stock cats were never intended to have #1 to have that much velocity forced through them, (especially for extended periods of time). #2 being a ceramic cat they will never hold up to that kind of abuse. Worst case scenario you send the EGT's (exhaust gas temperature) through the roof before the cat and melt it shut. I think it is a poor selling point to tell people, here is my supercharger kit please buy it. Oh by the way you need to keep stock manifolds and stock cats on the car the make the boost and in return make numbers!

If the car needed that much back pressure than explain why naturally aspirated with no air being crammed into the motor how we picked up substantial amounts of torque and also power accross the board! So until I see see an independent dyno done correctly comparing apples to apples than I am not buying the information that is being sold.

This will also be posted on the first page of this headers thread.

Thank you for taking the time to read this. The phone lines are open...

Tony

06-11-2010, 02:17 PM	#1 (permalink)
shumby Captin Canuck Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: with your mom Age: 45 Posts: 6,288 Drives: your sister Rep Power: 237	Well guys just puting this out there if you are planing on going the SC route do not get these headers they do not work with the SC setup __________________ Originally Posted by SAM@GTM Engine detonation is not normal and it should never never happen, and whoever told that need to do something else for living . Sam

06-11-2010, 02:23 PM	#3 (permalink)
shumby Captin Canuck Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: with your mom Age: 45 Posts: 6,288 Drives: your sister Rep Power: 237	well it is the right thing to say as no one has the VVEL figured out yet. so yes 100% LTH + SC = Fail it is that simple. __________________ Originally Posted by SAM@GTM Engine detonation is not normal and it should never never happen, and whoever told that need to do something else for living . Sam

06-11-2010, 04:03 PM	#5 (permalink)
vipor A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Euless, TX [ DFW ] Age: 42 Posts: 13,531 Drives: Nismo 09-0183 QAB Rep Power: 49	However, you will not end up scrapping these headers if you choose to SC down the line __________________ 2009 NISMO # 0193 \| QAB \| Albums! \| 05.04.10 (Dynojet) 291.94hp/248.28tq Oil Cooler (DIY) \| Custom Headlights \| GTSPEC Braces \| F.I. Long Tube Headers

06-14-2010, 01:45 PM	#6 (permalink)
cotizi Enthusiast Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Austin, Tx Posts: 391 Drives: 2012 VW GTI 6MT Rep Power: 218	So I finally got these installed this past weekend and have put some miles on it. Question for those who have installed these already: Does yours hiss like crazy? There's always been that deceleration hiss from the FI catback which ive come to know for awhile, but now its all over the place, deceleration, acceleration, WOT, whatever, there isn't really a throttle position or RPM where it isn't making the noise. At first I thought it was something loose, but after removing and reinstalling the section between the resonators and LTH the sound is definately comming from the resonator section or the muffler section after that. I watched Semtex's video but he has the stillen catback so I don't think its a fair comparison. Tony's video doesn't have nearly the amount of noise im getting with mine, but im wondering if thats just from the recording or what. __________________ Past - 2009 Silver 6MT Sport 370Z Current - 2012 VW GTI 6-Speed

06-14-2010, 10:49 PM	#12 (permalink)
vipor A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Euless, TX [ DFW ] Age: 42 Posts: 13,531 Drives: Nismo 09-0183 QAB Rep Power: 49	So the people that are hearing the hissing also have the FI CBE? __________________ 2009 NISMO # 0193 \| QAB \| Albums! \| 05.04.10 (Dynojet) 291.94hp/248.28tq Oil Cooler (DIY) \| Custom Headlights \| GTSPEC Braces \| F.I. Long Tube Headers

06-17-2010, 11:03 AM	#13 (permalink)
theDreamer A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 30,879 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 4211	Sent you a PM Tony. __________________ theDreamer's Z // Fast Intentions // Uprev // GTM // HKS // TEIN theDreamer's Silvia // URAS // GREDDY Houston Zs // Facebook // Twitter // Instagram

06-17-2010, 12:16 PM	#15 (permalink)
F.I. Inc. The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Simi Valley, CA Posts: 2,989 Drives: 2010 GT-R/2007 F-250 Rep Power: 686	A must read for all long tube header owners thinking of adding the GTM supercharger kit: I wanted to chime in real bad on the GTM supercharger thread. But I have bit my tongue and out of respect for Sam and GTM I will do this in my own thread. There is alot of talk going around that my headers *"flow too well"* for the HR motor due to the VVEL with the long duration and overlap. Shumby now is a proud owner of the GTM supercharger kit for his G37 and has removed our headers due to a lack of boost and power with them. I cannot sit here for any longer and let my headers take the abuse for something else that is causing the issue. I feel that it is not a tuning issue. I feel that it is a hardware issue, i.e. the supercharger itself or the kit. Here is the deal, headers relieve back pressure. By relieving back pressure you will have a PSI drop off (boost). The goal should be to make as a much torque and power on as little boost as possible. This is called "efficiency". I have never in my life ever, ever, ever, installed a supercharger on a car along with headers and lost power. The only way it is possible is if the supercharger kit is inefficient. This leads me into the next phase of the topic. *I have spoke to Shumby myself over the phone and here is the information I was given:* Tony, we supercharged the car and with the headers installed along with your exhaust it only made 4 psi. Then we put a smaller pulley on it and only picked up 15 horsepower and very little boost. I was never given the boost number I might add and I don't think Shumby was either. Then I was told the headers were removed and stock manifolds along with stock cats were installed. I was told at this point the car made 6-1/2 psi. So then they took the stock cats back off and put the GTM straight test pipes on the car. Same result, the psi dropped back to a very close place to the headers. No doubt, the stock cats are much more restrictive than the long tube headers or even straight test pipes. So now the stock cats were put back on the car and oh but wait, a boost leak was found. But I was told it was minimal. Either way it is force induction and a leak is detrimental to boost and power! So naturally I asked, after the leak was rectified did you put the headers back on the car a dyno it again. The answer was no we did not! I want to see an 8 psi stock cat, stock manifold number vs. FI long tube header 8 psi number. I would bet the farm that apples compared to apples we would make higher number across the board. If you cannot get the boost back up with the long tube headers than the supercharger itself cannot move enough volume AKA (CFM) or the supercharger kit itself is holding it back. Size of intercooler, tubing size, the way tubing is routed. A good way to see if the intercooler is efficient is to take a psi reading before it as well as after it. If the psi drop off is dramatic after it than the intercooler is not efficient. If the intercooler is efficient than it is most likely the head unit itself. It physically is just too small and cannot support enough volume to feed to motor. Bottom line you then rely on the stock cats to build the boost. Here is where the problem lyes with that. Boost is heat and the stock cats were never intended to have #1 to have that much velocity forced through them, (especially for extended periods of time). #2 being a ceramic cat they will never hold up to that kind of abuse. Worst case scenario you send the EGT's (exhaust gas temperature) through the roof before the cat and melt it shut. I think it is a poor selling point to tell people, here is my supercharger kit please buy it. Oh by the way you need to keep stock manifolds and stock cats on the car the make the boost and in return make numbers! If the car needed that much back pressure than explain why naturally aspirated with no air being crammed into the motor how we picked up substantial amounts of torque and also power accross the board! So until I see see an independent dyno done correctly comparing apples to apples than I am not buying the information that is being sold. This will also be posted on the first page of this headers thread. Thank you for taking the time to read this. The phone lines are open... Tony __________________ *Follow us on Facebook: Fast Intentions Inc.* Phone: (805) 522-FAST (3278) Email: tony@fastintentions.com www.fastintentions.com "FUELED BY PASSION" Last edited by F.I. Inc.; 06-17-2010 at 12:27 PM.

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