Admin 3" Long Tube Intakes

Eagle · 07-25-2017, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by socce

This makes sense to me but It seems there is quite a divide by forum members as to whether this is the case.

I know I have gotten a few responses from some generous members on here regarding this. But I am hoping some others might chime in.

If some of you guys could start your intake build again from the beginning today. What pieces what would you go with ?

If Admin cost the same as a Stillen G3 and didn't require the tune, I'd probably go with them instead of Stillen.

juicinjake · 07-27-2017, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghotnit

I have Synolimit’s setup with AAM’s intake on my car and I got gains with a tune. The key is matching the diameters so there is consistency in the airflow throughout the intake tract to keep the flow smooth. I looked at the EPS TBs and 70mm looked great but the manifold can’t go to 70mm and EPS uses an adapter to neck down to 58mm for the manifold. So where is the benefit? Synolimit’s setup is consistently 63mm (2.5 inches) which is as large as one can go. A 3-inch intake will not supply any more air than a 2.75 inch because it’s not being asked too (in a NA engine). The total vacuum demand starts in the manifold and whatever volume it can demand is all you need until you start forcing air.

The EPS adapter is set at 63mm on the back side to match the stock manifolds, not 58mm. We designed it to perfectly bolt up to a stock manifold. We do a mild port match on ported intake manifolds like the Z1 and others. We also offer a full bore 70mm plate for the aam intake manifold and other aftermarket aluminum manifolds that can easily be ported out to that dimension. in developmental dyno testing we saw more power with a 3" intake and a 3.5" intake (same length, iat, oil temp, coolant temp and everything) on every single test, than we did with anything smaller. one does not reason how airflow works, they merely test it. the tests show that the larger intake tubes made power on all throttle body configurations. Our 70mm tbs coupled with a 3" intake is the sweet spot for most people, and thats why there have been numerous dyno tests that showed this, since i did mine. I dont recommend going as large as 3.5" on the old style uprev vvel maps, as there are some response issues that most tuners wont be able to sort out, but I have yet to retest with the new ones.

Rusty · 07-27-2017, 07:17 PM

You have a couple of dyno charts to post up? Civil question.

MoncefVQ · 08-01-2017, 09:08 AM

Hi,

I'm Moncef, I designed this intake system. I also tune these cars and other platforms.

Quote:

Originally Posted by markesc

I'm really SHOCKED given how everyone on this forum says: "the stock airbox is engineered to flow very efficiently"

Which makes me wonder:

A) The stock airbox is bs and so are the above claims

B) The Tune is really where the power is made, which could be accomplished on both the stock airbox with some dropin k/n's, and if so, then whynot just skip the intake and just get a tune entirely, especially if you can get 85% of the same result and keep the stock airbox???

C) An aftermarket intake actually is NEEDED with a tune in order to see real gains.

Someone please educate me on this, as last time I looked under the hood, it's not an 8.0 ltr Viper motor sitting there.

The tune is only going to make power when there is enough airflow to support it. VHRs with short ram intakes that I have dyno tuned have gained less power than the same engines with CAIs, not just mine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

The problem with a 3" intake is the bottleneck at the throttle body. I'm sure these would show gains if you hog out the entire intake tract and then tune for it. Otherwise I can't see them doing much beyond a standard diameter CAI.

The 3" intakes make power with stock throttle bodies, I tested my intakes on a bone stock G37 and made 22whp from just the intake swap and rescaling the MAF. I left the ignition timing, VVEL, and cam tables stock. There was no indirect change in ignition timing due to the shift in base fuel schedule either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty

A tune can only do so much. If there is a mismatched set of parts. It can help, but it still won't be 100%.

This.

Quote:

Originally Posted by synolimit

Someone on the FB pages is giving me his new 3" setup and i sold my stillin gen 3's. Guess it cant get any worse. I say that though but 3 times ive dyno'd changing things and ive lost power! Like a lot! Think my best was 312 SAE in 4th with my setup, 2.75's, LTH and dual cbe. Then i tried e85 and made like 298 SAE in 5th!!! So almost stock power in 4th. Now with the side exit cbe and stillen gen 3's i made 310 SAE 5th. So maybe i could use a bigger intake. Who knows. Im currently porting the heads, openening the SH*T out of lower manifold and then going to try the 3" intakes. Hope it works out.

Let me know how it goes and if you need help shoot me an email. moncef.faik@gmail.com.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle

Everything i've heard about the Admin tuning intakes is that they require a MAF scaling tune at minimum, perform the best with the EPS throttle bodies...which at this point you are now looking at $1800 for some CAI's and +22 whp gains? Maybe 40whp with the throttle bodies?
It also bothers me that Moncef, the owner of Admin Tuning will not post apples to apples dyno sheets of lets say a Stillen Gen 3 with a tune next to Admin Tuning with MAF scaling. Why? Because the results are going to be close and you'll be spending $1200 for what you could get for ~$900 (assuming you purchase used Gen 3 intakes).

The cost just doesn't seem worth it to me and pretty much defeats the purpose of a CAI, which is a low cost bolt on mod that gets you a little pick up.

Also, i'd like to point out that K&N drop ins or short ram intakes with a tune may get you within 90% of a CAI on the dyno...but try that in the real world with some heat and watch that 90% drop fast due to heat soak.

I have proven that my intakes make power on the stock throttle bodies and on a bone stock car with stock everything else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle

I don't have anything against him personally but I certainly don't like false advertising. He and his fanbois claim they make more power than any other solution out there, but the catch is you have to pay for a tune and or buy throttle bodies to take advantage of a 3" intake charge pipe. Congratulations, you get to spend $1800 on something that should have been no more than $600 for a new CAI. For that kind of money I would much rather get a new set of Stillen G3's, an oil cooler and upgrade my brake pads. Outside of the 370z world even $600 is a lot of money for something like a CAI.

He's also pushing people to tune their cars after just doing the CAI which i think most people on this forum know is pretty stupid...unless of course you got money burn. Even if it is just MAF scaling, you're paying the same amount you would for an actual tune!!!

He may be a nice guy, he may have a decent product and know how to tune...but he is pretty bad about being honest with the community about what it means when you buy a set of Admin Tuning intakes.

This is incorrect, I do not "push" clients to get their stock cars tuned, my intakes hold their position in the marketplace as a final upgrade for people who are wrapping up their bolt-on "builds". I always tell potential customers that it is in their best interest to have at least test pipes and a good exhaust behind their intakes. If they want the intakes and tune beforehand after I disclose this to them, then I'll proceed.

EPS throttle bodies are great to have and yes I sell them. But like I mentioned before, my intakes make power with stock throttle bodies (and stock everything else).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle

No need to apologize, I think you nailed it. Basically everyone understands that it's stupid to play the dyno game with cold air intakes. You just aren't going to make a lot of power, end of story. But Admin Tuning wants people to pay a butt load of cash for a kit that is not worth the cost...and then people are out there online thanking him for it and spreading the BS.

Whether or not they are worth it is subjective, but the cost is a function of the investment in design, testing, production and support. There is no BS that is being spread as I already have proven these intakes make power over the stock ones, and my customers have made power over Injen intakes (~11whp) and Z1Motorsports intakes (~11whp) with mine on both 07-08 350Z HR engines and 09+ 370Z/G37 VHR engines.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1cintron

not at all.

I will try reaching out to him...

On the meantime, for any other member here who have these intakes, can you verify yours look the same or similar inside?

Your replacements are almost ready.

Mods - sorry if this is a double post. My original post appears to have been deleted/lost.

If anyone has any questions let me know. I'm not here to push my stuff but I wanted to clear some of this information up for you all.

Rusty · 08-01-2017, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty

You have a couple of dyno charts to post up? Civil question.

I would like to see what the power looks like. If it's fattening up the middle also, or is it mostly top end.

SS_Firehawk · 06-19-2017, 06:19 AM

It's the same reason I didnt jump on the EPS TB's. With the Z1 Intakes having a 2.5" inner diameter, it matched stock ported throttle bodies perfectly. Maybe if there was an aftermarket intake manifold with larger throttle body inlets.

Kingbaby · 06-19-2017, 10:30 AM

It's all in the tune

Rusty · 06-19-2017, 02:56 PM

A tune can only do so much. If there is a mismatched set of parts. It can help, but it still won't be 100%.

arends177 · 06-19-2017, 03:05 PM

I saw a post of one of the guys in my local Z club (Central Florida Z Club) hit 350whp NA with admin tuning intakes and EPS throttlebodies

synolimit · 06-20-2017, 02:05 PM

Someone on the FB pages is giving me his new 3" setup and i sold my stillin gen 3's. Guess it cant get any worse. I say that though but 3 times ive dyno'd changing things and ive lost power! Like a lot! Think my best was 312 SAE in 4th with my setup, 2.75's, LTH and dual cbe. Then i tried e85 and made like 298 SAE in 5th!!! So almost stock power in 4th. Now with the side exit cbe and stillen gen 3's i made 310 SAE 5th. So maybe i could use a bigger intake. Who knows. Im currently porting the heads, openening the SH*T out of lower manifold and then going to try the 3" intakes. Hope it works out.

Eagle · 06-21-2017, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by synolimit

Someone on the FB pages is giving me his new 3" setup and i sold my stillin gen 3's. Guess it cant get any worse. I say that though but 3 times ive dyno'd changing things and ive lost power! Like a lot! Think my best was 312 SAE in 4th with my setup, 2.75's, LTH and dual cbe. Then i tried e85 and made like 298 SAE in 5th!!! So almost stock power in 4th. Now with the side exit cbe and stillen gen 3's i made 310 SAE 5th. So maybe i could use a bigger intake. Who knows. Im currently porting the heads, openening the SH*T out of lower manifold and then going to try the 3" intakes. Hope it works out.

Everything i've heard about the Admin tuning intakes is that they require a MAF scaling tune at minimum, perform the best with the EPS throttle bodies...which at this point you are now looking at $1800 for some CAI's and +22 whp gains? Maybe 40whp with the throttle bodies?
It also bothers me that Moncef, the owner of Admin Tuning will not post apples to apples dyno sheets of lets say a Stillen Gen 3 with a tune next to Admin Tuning with MAF scaling. Why? Because the results are going to be close and you'll be spending $1200 for what you could get for ~$900 (assuming you purchase used Gen 3 intakes).

The cost just doesn't seem worth it to me and pretty much defeats the purpose of a CAI, which is a low cost bolt on mod that gets you a little pick up.

Also, i'd like to point out that K&N drop ins or short ram intakes with a tune may get you within 90% of a CAI on the dyno...but try that in the real world with some heat and watch that 90% drop fast due to heat soak.

Chuck33079 · 06-21-2017, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle

Also, i'd like to point out that K&N drop ins or short ram intakes with a tune may get you within 90% of a CAI on the dyno...but try that in the real world with some heat and watch that 90% drop fast due to heat soak.

Short rams, absolutely. But you think that maf tubes and drop ins heat soak dramatically more than a long tube intake? I would think that, since it's still using the stock intake path (drawing air from outside the engine compartment) and it's all plastic/silicone instead of the metal long tubes that it wouldn't show as much of a temperature rise.

Eagle · 06-21-2017, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

Short rams, absolutely. But you think that maf tubes and drop ins heat soak dramatically more than a long tube intake? I would think that, since it's still using the stock intake path (drawing air from outside the engine compartment) and it's all plastic/silicone instead of the metal long tubes that it wouldn't show as much of a temperature rise.

Plastic is a pretty crappy conductor of heat, pretty sure the aluminum tubing is going to maintain cooler AIT's across the board

synolimit · 06-24-2017, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle

Everything i've heard about the Admin tuning intakes is that they require a MAF scaling tune at minimum, perform the best with the EPS throttle bodies...which at this point you are now looking at $1800 for some CAI's and +22 whp gains? Maybe 40whp with the throttle bodies?
It also bothers me that Moncef, the owner of Admin Tuning will not post apples to apples dyno sheets of lets say a Stillen Gen 3 with a tune next to Admin Tuning with MAF scaling. Why? Because the results are going to be close and you'll be spending $1200 for what you could get for ~$900 (assuming you purchase used Gen 3 intakes).

The cost just doesn't seem worth it to me and pretty much defeats the purpose of a CAI, which is a low cost bolt on mod that gets you a little pick up.

Also, i'd like to point out that K&N drop ins or short ram intakes with a tune may get you within 90% of a CAI on the dyno...but try that in the real world with some heat and watch that 90% drop fast due to heat soak.

It'd be a cold day in hell if you get that amount of power. People still run the same amount of power with all these setups. Nothing's really changing the game. Until we see consistent 340-350...360hp? Out of everyone just buy what you can afford. You're exactly right though! Tune probably costs more too because you do have to scale the **** out of them!

markesc · 06-27-2017, 03:09 AM

Which leads me to this question:

Who has the most reliable ecutech email tune available? Having come from the wrx world, it was easy to datalog and send a file back to the tuner for safety purposes, plus I was spoiled with Cobb being 10 mins away (I could walk there even!).

I care more about reliability instead of all out numbers/bragging/leaning out/blown motor, and reading the above posts doesn't exactly instill much confidence as far as I'm concerned.

07-27-2017, 07:17 PM	#3 (permalink)
Rusty Ronin Samurai - Assassin Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Fayettenam,Pennsyltucky Age: 69 Posts: 35,373 Drives: 2011 Nismo GM 6M Rep Power: 2684438	You have a couple of dyno charts to post up? Civil question. __________________ 浪人 - 殺し屋 "The Difficult Anytime, The Impossible By Appointment Only" http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...o-journal.html

06-19-2017, 06:19 AM	#6 (permalink)
SS_Firehawk Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Tampa Posts: 4,142 Drives: 13' Magma Red Nismo Rep Power: 7335	It's the same reason I didnt jump on the EPS TB's. With the Z1 Intakes having a 2.5" inner diameter, it matched stock ported throttle bodies perfectly. Maybe if there was an aftermarket intake manifold with larger throttle body inlets. __________________ Old Car:GTM TSC'd 550whp / 410lbft tq @ 11.88PSI New Car: Under Construction

06-19-2017, 02:56 PM	#8 (permalink)
Rusty Ronin Samurai - Assassin Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Fayettenam,Pennsyltucky Age: 69 Posts: 35,373 Drives: 2011 Nismo GM 6M Rep Power: 2684438	A tune can only do so much. If there is a mismatched set of parts. It can help, but it still won't be 100%. Kingbaby likes this. __________________ 浪人 - 殺し屋 "The Difficult Anytime, The Impossible By Appointment Only" http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...o-journal.html

06-19-2017, 03:05 PM	#9 (permalink)
arends177 Base Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Florda Posts: 59 Drives: 2016 370z Sport Pkg Rep Power: 11	I saw a post of one of the guys in my local Z club (Central Florida Z Club) hit 350whp NA with admin tuning intakes and EPS throttlebodies Kingbaby, Spartan 1771 and ScottM like this. __________________

06-20-2017, 02:05 PM	#10 (permalink)
synolimit A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2013 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 5,051 Drives: 2013 Silver 370z Rep Power: 3389	Someone on the FB pages is giving me his new 3" setup and i sold my stillin gen 3's. Guess it cant get any worse. I say that though but 3 times ive dyno'd changing things and ive lost power! Like a lot! Think my best was 312 SAE in 4th with my setup, 2.75's, LTH and dual cbe. Then i tried e85 and made like 298 SAE in 5th!!! So almost stock power in 4th. Now with the side exit cbe and stillen gen 3's i made 310 SAE 5th. So maybe i could use a bigger intake. Who knows. Im currently porting the heads, openening the SH*T out of lower manifold and then going to try the 3" intakes. Hope it works out. Kingbaby and Rusty like this. __________________ 13 370z-

06-27-2017, 03:09 AM	#15 (permalink)
markesc Enthusiast Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Utah Posts: 381 Drives: 2014 370z M.B. 7AT Rep Power: 3367	Which leads me to this question: Who has the most reliable ecutech email tune available? Having come from the wrx world, it was easy to datalog and send a file back to the tuner for safety purposes, plus I was spoiled with Cobb being 10 mins away (I could walk there even!). I care more about reliability instead of all out numbers/bragging/leaning out/blown motor, and reading the above posts doesn't exactly instill much confidence as far as I'm concerned.

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