Nismo Tune too hot for nitrous
 

Hey guy's...Been researching my arse off, and may be purchasing a 75 shot nitrous set up for my 11' Nismo. Either Zex or (most likely) NX.

I know the 350 guy's are running heavy shots (150) on nothing more than a step colder plugs.

My issue is I don't have access to any credible Uprev tuners in the New Mexico area. There is one in Albuquerque, but I've heard some negatives, and don't really trust the tuner to be competent enough to; a) understand the Nissan mapping, b) Not make the engine more susceptible to detonation and leaning out. Seems if the tuner isn't knowledgeable, the car gets worse, not better.

My concern is with the stock Nismo tune. I read that the timing is hotter, and the AFR is leaner. Two issues you don't want with No2. Question is, how much leaner, and how much more advance? I'd like to believe that a 75hp shot once in a while will be fine without a tune, and I've read that to be true on a standard non-Nismo tune, but what about the Nismo tune?

I plan on using a NX Maximizer 4 controller, which claims to monitor AFR through our wide ban 02, and cut the solenoids if the programmed high/low value is exceeded. That coupled with a low pressure fuel cut-off, and I should be able to keep things...Well...In the box.

So how much hotter is the Nismo timing? Should I be really all that concerned with a 75 shot? If I do this a step down on plugs will be done of course.

TIA,

--D

I wouldn't run a Nitrous Kit on a High Compression motor without a very a careful tune. You'd definitely have to enrich your mix and retard a few degrees to compensate for the Nitrous.

You would be the first Nismo that I know of running N2O. My advice would be to start small and data log.

U need a tune with that 75 shot and colder plugs.

Gotta' be a first for everything right? :)

I was thinking the same thing wih the data-logging. Start with the 35 shot, log, adjust if required and move up from there. I just have to find the right tuner to help with an e-tune for No2. Any ideas? Z1?

Still wondering how much more advance is programed on the Nismo versus other tunes. Time to make some calls.

Subd


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I run 100 wet shot on mine! Going on 2 months now with no issues! The shop I deal with hooked me up! Retards ignition timing a few degrees when the wot switch is activated

It's never especially advisable to run nitrous on any motor without further tuning...

At minimum a way to pull timing would be good. Colder plugs wouldn't be a bad idea either.

Good to hear!

Can you give specifics relative to your build; Type of system, management unit, tune specifics, plug type, etc.

How about a review on the hit? On at 1st gear? Third? Seat of the pants feel, and traction(?).

Seems there are a few 370 No2 builds, but a only a few on actual day to day performance.

Thanks man.

--D

The tuners in albuquerque suck? I was going to go get mine tuned from el paso

I didn't say they suck...Just that I'm not super confident that they've done enough VQ37VHR motors to warrant 'expert' status. As we all know the tuner is the key to out smarting the Nissan engineers. Tuning isn't rocket surgery, but we've all read on these boards about a bad tune, FI and BOOM. I'm attempting to build a case to run a 75-100 shot of nitrous. Too lean and too much timing and BOOM. Tuner cause and effect? I don't want to find out the hard way.

As you know there are two UpRev tuners in Abq. I'm talking with Motive now. Seem to be the better of the two, but 'better' and 'competent' have yet to be determined in my mind.

I'm loving it so far! It's twin Holley Sniper kits! Stock plugs. Waiting on my AFR gauge to arrive and will be getting dyno time sometime after New Years! Already done a few pulls with, not advisable I know. Cant resist! We did some runs over the weekend and at a 20 roll, started spraying in second gear! Broke traction going into third! Tried in 1st and spun allot! She pulls pretty nice though

I'm running a 100HP shot on my stock tune and been through 7 tanks, 3 tanks @ 75HP and 4 @ 100HP. I'm picking up UPRev pretty soon and will be data logging in the spring. I wish I had something to show you now....

I wouldn't waist my time with a 35HP - 50HP shot. To be honest, 75HP was a great starting point. I heard Z1 has dyno tuned some Z's with nitrous so maybe you could give them a call to pick their brain.

That's real good to know dude! So 7 tanks and not a single issue?

No issues at all, my car runs like new. I should note that I don't run with spray for long at all when I use it.... say 5 - 12 seconds and long durations before the next use.

I forgot to mention that I'm running with a 34 row oil cooler to help with heat.

Ehhh -- OEM tune skews way rich (11:1 AFR) so that helps, but you could be causing microdamage to the pistons and other reciprocating parts you will not find out about for a while... you won't necessarily grenade the motor all at once.

I'd at least look into 1 or 2 step colder plugs (and lots of tuners swear by copper ones, although I think stick with iridium and colder... ask Z1?) and if you are running 91, find 93 or higher when you plan to spray. You might look up a blending chart and add a 1/4 tank of 100 pump gas if you can find it to nudge up the AKI.

Winter temps in Michigan will help too.

Good luck!

I was planning on going one step colder with my plugs in the spring, possible GTR plugs.

Quite possible true about the micro damage, but I plan on doing an engine rebuild in two years so I can accommodate high boost. I could tear down the engine and post pictures then.... But if there are any micro fractures it really wouldn't show.

My car is out only Spring through Fall so the winter temps don't help too much :p

Very good to hear! The only reason I would start low at 35 and work up is to monitor AFR through the rev band. If I'm in the green, then I'd step up. I'm glad to hear we're running rich to begin with.

If you guy's don't mind a few more questions: :)

Jordo: Are you saying that the engine could be detonating and thus could be causing damage? Or something else?

Are you guy's running any kind of controller and or safety cut-off (window switch, progressive, solenoid cut off with fuel pressure, AFR min/max cut off)?

What's the drivability like at a 100hp shot? Are you primarily doing roll-on hits or out of the hole straight line?

Thanks guy's!

--D

--Are you guy's running any kind of controller and or safety cut-off (window switch, progressive, solenoid cut off with fuel pressure, AFR min/max cut off)?

The Zex unit I have only activates at wide open throttle and the unit monitors nitrous and fuel mixtures to make sure I don't lean out.
Here is the Zex kit that I have.. My car is an automatic so I don't exactly miss shifts in my car. I would highly recommend a window switch for your Nismo.


--What's the drivability like at a 100hp shot? Are you primarily doing roll-on hits or out of the hole straight line?

I've done both, hole shots and rolls. 100hp directly out of the hole is quite aggressive and results in blowing your tires away in 1st and 2nd. A progressive controller would be beneficial if you are always using it from a dig at the drag strip.

100hp roll has A LOT less shock on the drive train. The car's exhaust note jumps up a few octaves and roars to life. You will feel like you are getting shot out of a gun. It's pretty ridiculous how fast the car runs. I would be tempted to say that my Z would hang with a C7, at least between 20 - 120 (and then the C7 would keep going with out me).

As for drivability... I really don't like the fact I can't use the power all the time like a turbo or super charger. I can't imagine using nitrous on a road course or a drivers situation with lots of turns, the power comes on too abrupt. On that same token, having all the abrupt power is awesome in a straight line. Hell, I was able to get a 12.5 in the quarter mile spraying which could have easily been low 12's without the excessive wheel spin I had. ... Yes a progressive controller would have been optimal. :)

One thing you might not be taking account for are the nitrous fills. Each fill will run you 40-60 dollars unless you are crazy and own your own filling station like me. Even owning your own filling station has a price tag.

I hope that helps. :tup:

^ Excellent post Gbrettin. That's the kind of review I was hoping for.

I live in norther New Mexico. We have excellent mountain roads and a lot of flat-out straight 'how fast can she go'...uh...opportunities! ;)

When I first got the Z I was very impressed with the straight line power, but as most here on the FI side of the house feel, a 'hold on to your hat' blast coming out of a turn is lacking a little. Twins is something I would relish but with two girls in private school, one getting ready for college, and a wife who doesn't understand that 600hp is 'better'...Well let's just say TT isn't gonna' happen. :)

Hence No2. For around $2k with tune I can run 100hp safely, and get the effect I really want. That is to say, a slingshot blast roll-on.

I'm looking at the Maximizer 4 controller that Nitrous Express sells. I like the idea of having all the No2 tuning options it allows via laptop. Skip a gear, progressive, AFR monitoring, fuel pressure, bottle pressure...Seems like a tinkering dream! LOL!

You're right about the fills. That's the one thing that I have yet to research. Being in Santa Fe, I doubt there is a local fill...I have a feeling it will be 60 miles south in Albuquerque...If so then a fill station might be in the mix. What made you decide to go with a fill station? Convenience and cost? How much per pound are you paying for a fill?

Again thanks for the response!

--D

Make sure you get a bottle warmer for your tank. You will be able to get consistent spray due to bottle being regulated.

--What made you decide to go with a fill station?
My buddy owns a performance shop and he wanted to get into nitrous refills. I purchased the filling station and he is marketing nitrous installations with refills for 40-50 bucks, I forgot the exact amount.

We are going to mobilize the refill station and take it to US 131 a few times in the coming year. We'll see how that goes.

--Convenience and cost?
Convenience for sure, we have the only N2O fill station in town and I fill up at cost. The large tank is about 200-220 bucks + rental per month. The large tank holds 100lbs. My tank is 10lbs so I can get 10 fills per tank.

--How much per pound are you paying for a fill?
100 / tank size. 20 - 22 bucks for my tank. ... so 2 bucks a pound.

This is very informative and thanks for posting. If you don't mind me asking, how much did you pay in full for the entire setup with install included? I'm interested in doing this as well and luckily I live minutes from Z1 and could probably get them to do the entire setup, but would just like to know a ballpark figure before hand so I know what to expect. I like to do rolls and never drag and there mainly on long stretches from 60-150 mph, what gear would be best to spray in and will a window switch automatically turn this unit on and off while I'm running?

Just a heads up, if you guy's are planning on using the Zex system with the NMU, you can not run any progressive controller with it(straight from Zex, its not meant to run progressively). The only option is to run their ZEX 82085 Traction Control Window Switch if you can find one. I was lucky enough to locate one, but it cost me $400.00. I do believe they have one more left, at least when I purchased mine.

I didn't pay for my installation, I traded some services for the labor. I can't imagine the install would be too terrible expensive though. As for the Nitrous kit its self, I paid nearly what was posted on the Zex site. I think the it was around 1,200 for all the items shipped.

Sorry to revive an old thread but I was curious what shop you ended up going with? I'm in Albuquerque and have been looking for a good shop. I've heard good things about NM imports and the times I was there skylines and GTRs covered the lot, Motiva on the other hand has obtained the slogan "motiva blows cars up" between my friends and the majority of people I've been around