Reflections on GTM over the years

MMC Racing · 09-23-2014, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alstann

From what I understand in California, a bankruptcy filing discharges debts that are previously owed, unless the debt in question was fraudlent (which I believe this is the case), and was obtained with a false pretense.

From the US Code - Section 523 - Exemptions to Discharge (in terms of bankruptcy):

(a) A discharge under section 727, 1141, 1228(a), 1228(b), or 1328(b) of this title does not discharge an individual debtor from any debt.....(2) for money, property, services, or an extension, renewal, or refinancing of credit, to the extent obtained by - (A) false pretenses, a false representation, or actual fraud, other than a statement respecting the debtor's or an insider's financial condition.

I'm going to be speaking to a friend of mine who is an attorney to get more information, but I believe I have a case. Also, I am unsure of how that bankruptcy filing worked out - they filed under a different name.

Getting the first judgment will be the easy part. Collecting on that judgment is going to be hard and expensive with very little chance of success. Every additional dollar you put into trying to get your money back will just be more money down the drain.

The only creditors that will get any satisfaction out of this is they ones that leased him equipment. They will get their equipment back. They still will need to eat the lost lease payments, transportation, and reconditioning.

Chuck33079 · 09-23-2014, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMC Racing

Getting the first judgment will be the easy part. Collecting on that judgment is going to be hard and expensive with very little chance of success. Every additional dollar you put into trying to get your money back will just be more money down the drain.

The only creditors that will get any satisfaction out of this is they ones that leased him equipment. They will get their equipment back. They still will need to eat the lost lease payments, transportation, and reconditioning.

Unless there are hard assets you can repo, I'm afraid you may be left holding a judgement in your favor and a pocketful of nothing. There's no doubt in my mind that there are no assets to go after. Man, I hope I'm wrong and you get made whole, but I'm afraid you're about to find out how broke Sam is.

dmhenderson · 09-23-2014, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

Unless there are hard assets you can repo, I'm afraid you may be left holding a judgement in your favor and a pocketful of nothing. There's no doubt in my mind that there are no assets to go after. Man, I hope I'm wrong and you get made whole, but I'm afraid you're about to find out how broke Sam is.

Well, if he owns property (and he does) and he's found PERSONALLY liable for the debt - as in "not part of the bankruptcy filing", you can put a lien on his house, vehicles etc. Garnish future wages and so on.
Once you get a judgment against him, it doesn't just magically go away. If he tries to found a new business and start over again, you can wait and go back after him for the amount of the original judgment plus interest

Chuck33079 · 09-23-2014, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmhenderson

Well, if he owns property (and he does) and he's found PERSONALLY liable for the debt - as in "not part of the bankruptcy filing", you can put a lien on his house, vehicles etc. Garnish future wages and so on.
Once you get a judgment against him, it doesn't just magically go away. If he tries to found a new business and start over again, you can wait and go back after him for the amount of the original judgment plus interest

True, but now we're going to have to look at how the business is organized, etc. Bottom line is it's a complete shitshow, and guys who are owed smaller amounts of money may end up taking it in the shorts. Plus, I'll bet a six-pack that his medical bills demolished his personal assets and he's underwater there too.

1slow370 · 09-23-2014, 03:05 PM

I love forum legal advice, ery'one be talkin out they a55, it's filled under 11 not 7 or 13, so most of what everyone has so far said does not apply, it is not straight liquidation it is for a company to work through a court to satisfy their creditors over the course of a few years to be able to maintain an operable business, if it gets rolled into a 7 then it would be liquidated but usually they would just make the payments to repay a certain decided upon percentage of debt and then would be released from the remainder and could continue operating. Don't take my word for it though or the word of any of the other amateur financial and legal counselors on here go get real advise if you need it.

G37sHKS · 09-23-2014, 07:37 PM

So GTM is officially bankrupt?

DEpointfive0 · 09-23-2014, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G37sHKS

So GTM is officially bankrupt?

Bankrupt, sure. Out of business, no.

Bankrupt does not mean out of business.

1slow370 · 09-23-2014, 07:45 PM

bankruptcy has turned into something some businesses will do to shuffle some paperwork around and bring the profit margin back up, usually the ones who get hurt the most under a chapter 11 are suppliers and companies who have leased equipment because they can no longer take that equipment back until an agreement is reached and in which case they may end up not taking it back and cutting there losses for semi repayment, but again I can't tell you for sure I don't make a living dealing with it, like the people you should pay to talk to about it if it concerns you. Always seek legal and financial advise before making any serious decisions that are not cut and dry.

DEpointfive0 · 09-23-2014, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1slow370

bankruptcy has turned into something some businesses will do to shuffle some paperwork around and bring the profit margin back up, usually the ones who get hurt the most under a chapter 11 are suppliers and companies who have leased equipment because they can no longer take that equipment back until an agreement is reached and in which case they may end up not taking it back and cutting there losses for semi repayment, but again I can't tell you for sure I don't make a living dealing with it, like the people you should pay to talk to about it if it concerns you. Always seek legal and financial advise before making any serious decisions that are not cut and dry.

JARblue · 09-23-2014, 09:29 PM

Hi. I am not a lawyer nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. But I do have a keyboard connected to the internet

Alstann · 09-23-2014, 09:51 PM

I am currently in contact with a lawyer, and I'm gonna post when I get definitive information on everything. But regardless, my court date is set for November, so I will definitely be attending that.

The California court also sent a certified mail court-summons, which requires Sam to attend this hearing by law. Failure to attend, I'd imagine, would not be good. I made sure I went through the right methods as well before I made this a legal issue.

*Off topic, but a few people asked me about my custom master cylinder, and how it's holding up. It's rock solid as the day I installed it.

Kingbaby · 09-23-2014, 10:56 PM

He doesn't have to appear, nor do I think he will! Court dates are great and all! He can have a representative or reschedule or as for a extension thingy forgot what's it called!

Sadly all a joke!

I think I mentioned it back a while but what's stopping him from getting a few loan from happy buyers overseas!

I'm sure a few princes that have some spare change

JARblue · 09-24-2014, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alstann

*Off topic, but a few people asked me about my custom master cylinder, and how it's holding up. It's rock solid as the day I installed it.

Let me know when you are producing them en masse

BlkNismo · 09-24-2014, 11:37 AM

C'mon Sam...Speak out. I know your lurking you snake.

dmhenderson · 09-24-2014, 12:14 PM

Uh...does he even have forum access anymore? I'd be shocked if he weren't IP banned by now.

09-23-2014, 03:05 PM	#425 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	I love forum legal advice, ery'one be talkin out they a55, it's filled under 11 not 7 or 13, so most of what everyone has so far said does not apply, it is not straight liquidation it is for a company to work through a court to satisfy their creditors over the course of a few years to be able to maintain an operable business, if it gets rolled into a 7 then it would be liquidated but usually they would just make the payments to repay a certain decided upon percentage of debt and then would be released from the remainder and could continue operating. Don't take my word for it though or the word of any of the other amateur financial and legal counselors on here go get real advise if you need it. JARblue, warpeacelove and DEpointfive0 like this. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

09-23-2014, 07:37 PM	#426 (permalink)
G37sHKS A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Dubai Posts: 1,183 Drives: 09 G37S Coupe 7AT Rep Power: 21	So GTM is officially bankrupt? __________________ G37 BUILD UNDER CONSTRUCTION

09-23-2014, 07:45 PM	#428 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	bankruptcy has turned into something some businesses will do to shuffle some paperwork around and bring the profit margin back up, usually the ones who get hurt the most under a chapter 11 are suppliers and companies who have leased equipment because they can no longer take that equipment back until an agreement is reached and in which case they may end up not taking it back and cutting there losses for semi repayment, but again I can't tell you for sure I don't make a living dealing with it, like the people you should pay to talk to about it if it concerns you. Always seek legal and financial advise before making any serious decisions that are not cut and dry. FPenvy, GaleForce and DEpointfive0 like this. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

09-23-2014, 09:29 PM	#430 (permalink)
JARblue A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Austin, TX Age: 43 Posts: 36,450 Drives: 11 Z34, 98 E36 M3 Rep Power: 2684440	Hi. I am not a lawyer nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. But I do have a keyboard connected to the internet fuct, 1slow370, GaleForce and 2 others like this. __________________ 2011 370Z 6MT Sport Gun Metallic \| ARC \| CJM \| Ecutek \| FI \| Fujimura \| R2C \| SPL \| Stillen \| TWM \| Z1 \| ZSpeed \|

09-23-2014, 09:51 PM	#431 (permalink)
Alstann Track Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: South Florida Posts: 882 Drives: 12 PW 370z 6MT Sport Rep Power: 15	I am currently in contact with a lawyer, and I'm gonna post when I get definitive information on everything. But regardless, my court date is set for November, so I will definitely be attending that. The California court also sent a certified mail court-summons, which requires Sam to attend this hearing by law. Failure to attend, I'd imagine, would not be good. I made sure I went through the right methods as well before I made this a legal issue. *Off topic, but a few people asked me about my custom master cylinder, and how it's holding up. It's rock solid as the day I installed it. JARblue, FPenvy and GaleForce like this. __________________ 2012 Pearl White 370Z GReddy Twin Turbo

09-24-2014, 11:37 AM	#434 (permalink)
BlkNismo Track Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: USA Posts: 614 Drives: Nismo Rep Power: 15	C'mon Sam...Speak out. I know your lurking you snake.

09-24-2014, 12:14 PM	#435 (permalink)
dmhenderson A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Maryland Posts: 5,930 Drives: AWD TT 370z Rep Power: 26	Uh...does he even have forum access anymore? I'd be shocked if he weren't IP banned by now. __________________

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