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It is time.
This ones for you Infidel. Cosmo. and all of you guys who have felt the pain.)
This is a situation I have keep pretty descrete for going on 6 weeks now. Never know how a community will respond to a well of knowledge. Friday April 11th, 2014. A day ill never forget for the rest of my life I'm sure. I spent all day Thursday night prepping the nismo until 3:30am to depart for Dynosty in Louisville, KY at 4 am. Finished wiping the car down went over every nut and bolt vaccum line all 9 yards those of you DIY guys know what I'm talking about. Arrived at dynosty around 8:45am where the car would spend its day being tuned. We were introduced to everyone just before 9 and pulled the car out of the trailer promptly after. It was discovered that the turbo feed distribution block had a leak from where I had to tweak it earlier Thursday night to route the lines for my oil cooler. Ontop of this the car had to yet be drained of all the 93 and replaced with e85 before we could begin the tune. Apparently it took 2 hours to drain the oil and put new thread tape on my distribution block and then another 2 hours yet to drain the fuel from the car. The car was strapped on the dyno around 12 for pulls to begin after lunch. At 1:00 pm drivability pulls started on the zed. From 1-4 pm I sat in dynostys waiting room listening to my fast intentions exhaust roar that building pull after pull. At 4:15 I had made a comment to my buddy "I haven't heard anything in a little while; I hope everything is alright." At around 5:30pm Hal came into the waiting room to fetch me and the three others I had with me to pull us into the shop stating he: "had some bad news." Hal told me infront of the dyno screen that my block was seized, the crank would no longer turn. The last pull on the car was at 4:03pm (if I'm remembering correctly at this point it was all a blur, and I honestly had to have him tell me a second time for it to even sink in.) Immediately my buddy and I asked what/how this happened. Hal told me they heard a "noise" and immediately stopped the pull on the car and shut it off. His tech then jumped in to tell me I could have a blown head gasket and gotten coolant in the oil causing it to break down my oil and spin a rod bearing (there is no way you could have ground down the bearing surface fast enough to get the two bearings to "lap" one another which is the only possible thing that could have happened to seize piston movement like that, but I didn't want to go pointing fingers as I've seen some crazy **** in my 22 years lol). As I'm being fed this bull$h*t, I'm looking over graph of the last pull with Hal showing me a 400whp pull on 4lbs of boost(mind you my car is on 110 octane fuel now). So, extremely p*seed off by this point and things not adding up, I pushed the car back into the trailer and headed back north for my shop; I wanted answers and I was GOING to get them. I arrived at my shop around 10pm and had the car up on the lift undergoing surgery by 10:30. Removed most of the front clip as I knew no matter what the motor was getting pulled. Drained the coolant; no traces of oil (knew that was coming anyway) drained the oil; no traces of coolant. Shun a light into the pan of oil and it looked like a fine silver mine shat in my royal purple oil. Pulled the oil pan and found a few large shavings of metal but thankfully no pieces. Going on 45 hours with only a nap on the way down(couldn't sleep on the way back, wonder why.) I decided to call it quits Saturday at 3:30 am. Started in Saturday night at a little after 5pm by removing the rest of the front clip. Motor was pulled out and on a stand by 7. Upper oil pan and windage trays were removed and we began to try rotating the crank. Almost immediately after getting the crank to 3/4 rot one way or the other we found the issue, or one of. Cylinder 6 rod was bent and twisted, BAD. After peeking a little bit more with a flashlight we noticed 2 was suffering almost identical damage. Flipping the block over to the top I pulled all the plugs to begin checking for flooded cylinders. No fuel came pouring out but I noticed the porcelain of both the #2 and #6 bank plugs to be broken inside the plug and laying down over the electrode. I continued to tear it down to a short block that night and once again called her quits on Sunday morning around 3am. Sunday evening the caps were removed from the rods and the rods were removed to inspect the bearings/crank. All of which looked almost brand new minus a few heat spots on them much like the surface of a flywheel and the crank had ZERO grin scores on any of the bearing raceways. Pistons show some slight signs of pre detonation but they survived the fight. With the rotating assembly removed the girdle was placed back on for the block to be sent to the machine shop. Only two slight scoring marks were made one in each of the damaged rods cylinder walls(call me lucky, but that is EXACTLY the case here.) I decided to go with a .020 overbore even thought a 10 would've cleaned her up just for the sake of it seems like 20 over is standard when sizing pistons for a rebuild.I called dynosty later that week to get some answers from Hal. I was convinced this wasn't just coincidence. He instructed that I look over the fuel system, have the injectors sent out, and check the rail for debris. I knew my fuel system was working properly because earlier in the previous week it was remote tuned by Hal so that it could at least be started to put on a trailer and I had an AN fitting loose at my e85 filter leaking fuel all over my damned driveway. The injectors were BRAND NEW from Fuel Injector Clinic(proudly sponsored btw:happydance:) and Brian instructed to me that the injectors are tested anda flow sheet is boxed with them prior to being sent to the customer(cool so that covers that area). Next up that rail; I had ZERO doubt's in my mind that my beautiful CJM rail had any flaws with it and I was about to prove that statement. I first made sure to evacuate the rail with some compressed air then I plugged off all of the holes but the inlet and hooked the air pressure to it. Around the rail I tested all 6 ports to 100 psi of regulated air and they all read for 98-100psi dependent of how well I could get the other 5 ports to seal. I've covered all my bases Hal. WHAT NOW!?. I'm sorry but there's some sh*t that doesn't add up. Why did it take 1 1/2 hrs to tell me my car was blown up when I was 50 feet away? Why was I offered "great deals on parts to fix it" before I left. I understand people make mistakes sometimes but I left thag shop with a 700$ bill. A (from everything I can tell) lie in my face. And a knife in my back. I have since paid them a 1300$ deposit towards new internals; called Dustin twice as well as emailed Dustin twice and STILL have yet to receive a status on my pistons that were "supposed" to have been ordered three weeks ago now when I put my deposit down as well as yet to receive my total quote for how much I have left to pay them to cover the bases of the rest of the parts. As far as I'm concerned they have done NOTHING to attempt to right a wrong when I feel they should be improptou kissing my *** for not taking this up legally regardless the waiver I signed. Im not on here looking for a pity party I KNEW from the get go that a blown motor was possible what I didn't know was that it could happen on power only marginally higher than bolt ons. So I guess I'm not only posting this as a "beware" but I'm more so looking for answers as its got to be down to a tuning issue. Even Todd with Motion Labs could agree with me on that point after a VERY lengthy conversation on the phone with him and Adam for the first time ever this evening(61 minutes to be exact if that tells you how willing the shop is to take time out of their day.) So guys chime in! Lemme know what you think could have happened(factual please.) I god honestly am looking for some insight onto what happened to have caused this issue. Cheers Z brothers:tiphat: stay boosting!#choo:driving: http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...412-221244.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...412-221233.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...412-221225.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...412-221257.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...412-222141.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...412-222147.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...412-222152.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...412-222200.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...412-222832.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...412-223254.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...412-223753.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...412-224039.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...412-224049.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...412-224055.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...412-224100.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...412-224712.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...412-224718.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...412-224731.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...412-224731.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...412-225255.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...412-225308.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...412-225316.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...412-225322.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...412-225407.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...412-225417.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...412-231600.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...412-231605.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...412-231605.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...412-231617.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...413-024206.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...413-024213.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...413-024219.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...413-024226.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...413-024232.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...413-024237.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...413-024243.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...413-024956.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...413-025000.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...414-185211.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...414-185217.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...414-185223.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...414-185259.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...414-185441.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...414-185737.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...414-185740.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...414-185751.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...414-190104.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...414-190209.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...414-191816.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...414-191821.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...414-191829.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...414-191845.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...414-191855.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...414-193650.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...414-194124.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...414-194133.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...414-194137.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...414-194143.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...414-194247.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...414-194255.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...414-194258.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...414-203636.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...414-203729.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...414-204222.jpg http://www.the370z.com/members/rid3_...414-204213.jpg |
It's sounds like what happened to you happened to me in the same exact way. I have called z1 and spoke with john about getting a copy of my dyno but they wont send it. Again Iam not pointing any fingers either but my car was seem to be running perfect until the tune was touched and at only 9psi it blew on the dyno. I feel your pain because they had no plan to help get my car home so I had to call around and locate a uhaul truck and car hauler so I could tow it home. I have yet to get into my old motor to find out what happened. John said he heard a noise right before it happened.
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Any signs of head gasket leakage? like more coolant in the reservoir after it has cooled off than before you started? or was there residual pressure in the coolant system when you pulled the cap or hoses taking it apart? could have pushed out the coolant in the heads leading to air pockets hots spots and some boom action, if you had no residual pressure in the coolant then it had to be something else.
Edit: since the cylinders that are blown on opposite corners it doesn't sound like a fuel starve issue, And I'm sure they heard a noise "ping ping ping ping puhhhhhh" |
Slow-Nope head gaskets were good slow Hal did mention coolant and oil temps were quote on quote "great; both were sitting at 220" so no air pockets or noticed temp spikes. Yep #4 looked to be getting close to giving out as well before much more. Everything on my driver bank suffered. No real signs of damage to my odd cylinders what so ever rods were all straight as can be and pistons showed no real traces of pre det.
Cosmo-yeah and like Todd explained to me today EVEN IF we could manage to get the sheets and data logs, most of it is password protected or software level locked from us guys anyway so its like having useless information. You only pulled the oil pan off your old motor iirc didn't you? |
I'll get some pics up here directly so y'all can see I'm not blowing smoke out my @$$. I took plenty.
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Sorry to hear about your troubles!
Wow Hal is one of the best VQ tuners out there. I'm surprised it's a tuning issue. Maybe some of the pump gas wasn't drained completely? You seem to know what you're doing so hopefully you'll be back in the ride in no time. |
if they were just doing low boost pulls I would guess pre-ignition detonation, too much timing, low rpm.
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Yeah I was under the same impression el! I would hope the gas was drained or even still it was on them! Regardless the motor went doing the final "drivability" pulls he stated. He hadn't even gotten to the power pulls yet he was actually just a couple pulls away from coming out and asking me where I wanted it to be according to him.
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I've pretty well told myself the that HAS to be the only cause es. That is the only logical cause I could think of left that would cause to forces to work against each other to bend my rods in the first place.
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Only thing I haven't really brainstormed is what the broken spark plugs could have contributed too since the spark would have been more less contained making it kind of hard to ignite anything at all
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the det could have blown the plugs out if it was bad enough, it sounds like classic preignition, did they install a jack to hook up a knock amp? this is a must when tuning FI, as the knock sensors will let you hear knock long before you could without headphones.
You could check the wiring bythe ecu for a splice on the knock wires |
I would have to look slow but I'm going to take a pretty good guess at saying they did not. I could be wrong though as I haven't personally laid eyes on it.
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yeah they may fave taken it off and tapped the wires back up just look to see if the knock wires were tampered with.
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Soon as I can get up to the shop it will be one of the first on my to-do list. Need to exercise my injectors being my priority number 1 atm.
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This just sucks I understand the frustration after hurting my stock block when I was supercharged.
Good luck in the re building process it's a long road but if done right you will be happy with the end result. |
You guys are gonna give me nightmares
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Muhahahahahhahaha the cuuuuurrrrrrsssse!!!! It spreeeeeaaaadddssss mu ha ha ha ha ha ha ha....
Edit: damn forum I wanted caps lock on you **** |
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Eh I knew I was playing with fire to begin with so it was bound to happen y'all. I'm already well on my way to getting started to get things back together. Block has been machined its ready to go. I've got all my internals/gaskets heads and main studs ordered I'm just waiting three more weeks yet on pistons from CP before everything ships up my way then ill be down probably 2 weeks or so while the turbos are at Forced Performance getting HTA 2868s.
Shooting to start her up sometime in the end of July but I'm betting it will be mid August honestly. Squeeze were your MAFs starting to run out when they tuned you for 630 on pump?? I'm just wondering kinda what the whp ceiling is for the Stock MAFs on e85. Talking to TT370z and he said 600 but that seems really low. Especially since I don't recall hearing of any issues for you djtodd or face glide to get to 650. If I have to choke down the extra 700$ Ill do what I gotta do but not if I don't have too. Shooting for about 780whp. I think you and I will pretty much be neck and neck for top dog spot on the east coast when you get your build finished |
Sorry to hear man, but I have to say, it's very refreshing to see someone moving on so quickly after such tragedy. You obviously know what you're doing and what you got into. Best of luck on the build :tiphat:
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780WHP come on now you can't stop there might as well go for 800:driving::ughdance: |
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This is a risk we all take hell I hurt my stock engine with 4000 miles on a brand new car cylinder number 2 piston piston ring gave out. My car now has 26K on it built engine. |
You're the pinnacle of the kind of longevity I hope to see out of my motor. Yes I actually am shooting for 800 wheel it's just a nice number IMO fast but not over bearing the where the car is no longer enjoyable to drive on the streets similar to the effect you get with a 1000+whp mkIV, but I'm afraid with a single 485 and 1100cc FIC injectors I'm not quite going to make it there. Turbos are acclaimed by Forced Performance to be good for 460whp per turbo after the rebuild so ill be good on air flow for sure. Internals will have me good for the power. But fuel system has me second guessing. Originally I was going to stop at 650 wheel but I see it rather pointless to not at least take SOME advantage of the money I'm pouring into this car. Honestly I had over looked the MAFs until I got to sitting around thinking about that "1000whp 370z" and how they ran into issues so I figured if anyone you'd be the guy to ask.
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Thank you for the kind words JAR moving on from the experience is really all I can do you know? I could sit here and throw a B*tch fit on the forums all day whine and cry about how someone needs to replace my short block or I could just take it like a man hope that dynosty hears of this; gets a wake up call to at least attempt to change my view on their entire entourage(as right now I'm no longer impressed with how they do business by any means.) or cut me some sort of something. I am assembling the block myself labor does me no good. Free rods and a new set of HKS 8 range plugs would make me smile but hell lets be honest I'd be happy just getting a call back telling me where my damned pistons are!
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I'm still gonna FI when I can though :p |
Don't let a couple bad experiences ruin your thoughs guys! Your motors could run for years with no issues at all! My dream car has always been a boosted Z(ever since I watched Tokyo drift lol) so ill stop at nothing to have this car on the road where I want it so I can enjoy it again. It's just another bump in the road. Forgot about pictures last night so there are some things I tentatively want to add to the thread
Short Block tear down Pictures Build cost(because everyone's ALWAYS curious. For some of you this will be an eye opener. Short block cleanup and Prep pictures Short block reassembly pictures POSSIBLY DIY???(dependent of how much of a hurry I am to get the car back on the road) |
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I was hoping some good news had happened between when we talked earlier and you posting this on the tuner/shop front, but it seems that they've only gotten worse. Hopefully they pull their heads from their asses soon and make good on their end of the deal on their motor Hal popped.
I mean, we're all big boys. We know the risks boosting a NA motor. But it's the lies and shady behavior from a lot of the shops and tuners that gets to me. |
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Thanks for the compliment I do think you will need more than a single 485 pump to reach 800whp on E85. Also what 1000whp 370z you talking about ? I have never seen this car at that much power yet. |
i think he means the white dragon
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^the "mysterious" gtm 1000hp 370. Can't remember the name think it was a white 370.
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Lol at the White Dragon that car never hit 1000whp the highest chart that was posted was 860whp and that was with a 4.5 liter engine.
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Squeeze-Yes that is the car I'm referring too. I know it never hit 1000 wheel that was a knock ah GTM hahaha. I only brought it up as I do remember MAF issues being brought up in the thread about the car
Chuck-no really no better luck. Still paying for the build out of pocket. I am right there with you on the being lied too thing man! I've still got the warm an fuzzy that that's what happened to me. That is one of the biggest reasons why I even installed my turbo kit myself in the first place. Jwick-I wasn't implying an outrageous cost to do the build; more so the lack there of! ;) |
I still had some room on the oem mafs at 660 but not much. The size of the charge pipes will impact your limits as well though.
Sorry to hear of your troubles. I'm sure in the end you'll be happier, and hopefully the shops makes things right. |
I will go ahead and pull them and replace with 2 UpRev sensors I think constructing new charge piping to prove to be more of a hassle than necessary. Thank you for chiming in DJ! I got my invoice today and found out my pistons are two weeks away! *claps excitedly!* So they are doing a little better. No fronted cost for parts/"free" parts or anything of the sort.
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Ive beat the living piss out of it since getting it tuned...definitely gonna be a little easier on her for awhile. However, it seems the past few, have been tuning (yet to be,determined I,know)not directly related to mechanical failure, which gives me great confidence because mine was tuned and torture tested by Vince haha. I honestly think everyone should just ship their cars to r/t tuning and let Vince tune them!
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Ehhh I'm going to send mine over to Alex and Todd with motion labs. Mine was definitely a tune issue. Mechanical failure rate does seem to be pretty slim to none on these motors. Just watch your oil changes closely for signs of breakdown and continue to enjoy the car joe. That's the point of the tune; to have to car dialed in ever so well that you can beat it to death and then some and not be worried while doing it!
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