CJM Report: Effects of E85 after 3 years?

TopgunZ · 05-14-2014, 12:04 PM

Any NA car is going to be fine with a walbro 255 and 600's. I am running 533whp on a 340 and 1000cc injectors.

However

Walbro 255 = $75
Install kit = $75
600cc's = $500
Uprev = $500
Tune= $500

$1650 for 10 HP?

Not to mention you will be glued to certain stations and you can never take a decent road trip unless E85 is everywhere in the area which in most cases isn't.

The only way I can see this making sense is if you are running without cats and the smell is bothering you. But it had better bother the **** out of you for that cost.

jofro6 · 05-14-2014, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopgunZ

Any NA car is going to be fine with a walbro 255 and 600's. I am running 533whp on a 340 and 1000cc injectors.

However

Walbro 255 = $75
Install kit = $75
600cc's = $500
Uprev = $500
Tune= $500

$1650 for 10 HP?

Not to mention you will be glued to certain stations and you can never take a decent road trip unless E85 is everywhere in the area which in most cases isn't.

The only way I can see this making sense is if you are running without cats and the smell is bothering you. But it had better bother the **** out of you for that cost.

Well I already have the software so it would just be a retune cost and parts. I do run test pipes, but I dont notice the smell at all nor do I take my car on long road trips lol. Are the stock injectors maxed that close to 100% at this point to need the 600cc? Not looking to cut corners just curious.
Could be something I look into now.

Sent from the Galaxy, using Tapatalk

TopgunZ · 05-14-2014, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jofro6

Well I already have the software so it would just be a retune cost and parts. I do run test pipes, but I dont notice the smell at all nor do I take my car on long road trips lol. Are the stock injectors maxed that close to 100% at this point to need the 600cc? Not looking to cut corners just curious.
Could be something I look into now.

Sent from the Galaxy, using Tapatalk

Well if you have already been tuned and your tuner is cool he can check your map and see what duty cycle they are at. But I highly doubt they will be good to run E85 on. Besides, you wouldn't ever want to take your injectors to max. 80% is the max you should ever go.

If you ever tune again ask for all that information. Duty cycle, timing adv., afr's, etc....

phunk · 05-19-2014, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jofro6

Thanks Phunk... You sell a majority of the fuel supply items don't you? What would I need to make the conversion (and your price), cause i have it very available near me. You can PM so I dont derail your thread any further.

Apologies for temporarily abandoning my own thread just after posting it. I was away in Utah for the rest of the week and just returned.

I do all the fuel system stuff on these cars! Let me know if you needed any questions answered still. I see you guys were discussing it in the thread here.

But just to clarify... injectors and retune are all thats needed for sure. a fuel pump is a maybe for NA... i wouldnt do it unless i started to see fuel pressure drop.

You could use both E85 and 93 octane but you would have to tune 2 maps and use the map switching feature to switch over when you change fuels since the 370z does not currently have any flex fuel capability options.

But then again, nobody really knows at this point if there is much gain to be found in it. Hopefully someone will try it out soon and answer that question.

jofro6 · 05-20-2014, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phunk

Apologies for temporarily abandoning my own thread just after posting it. I was away in Utah for the rest of the week and just returned.

I do all the fuel system stuff on these cars! Let me know if you needed any questions answered still. I see you guys were discussing it in the thread here.

But just to clarify... injectors and retune are all thats needed for sure. a fuel pump is a maybe for NA... i wouldnt do it unless i started to see fuel pressure drop.

You could use both E85 and 93 octane but you would have to tune 2 maps and use the map switching feature to switch over when you change fuels since the 370z does not currently have any flex fuel capability options.

But then again, nobody really knows at this point if there is much gain to be found in it. Hopefully someone will try it out soon and answer that question.

Thanks for the great news. I wouldnt need to upgrade the lines at all or anything?

Would 600cc be enough or is it worth it to just spend the extra and go up to something larger just for the hell of it and headroom? Or does running an injector at too low of a % hinder pressure or performance?

Well if its the right price, I guess I could be that guy to test it out. lol

phunk · 05-20-2014, 09:10 PM

600cc would just barely be enough. I see no reason to not go larger since the pricing on injectors under 1000cc is mostly the same or very close.

You would not need to upgrade/replace anything in the system for E85 compatibility purposes... everything in there will hold up fine.

I cannot imagine any downsides to running a slightly oversized injectors. Generally the only reason people stay away from extra large injectors is for idle quality and tuning concerns. But using high quality modern injectors, we dont need to worry about that with typical sizes like 660, 720, 880 etc etc

TopgunZ · 06-10-2014, 02:25 PM

Phunk, Did you ever get those plugs pulled to check out your piston heads? I haven't had a chance to pull mine either. But planning on it this weekend.

phunk · 06-10-2014, 03:05 PM

I havent yet! I havent been giving my Z any love at all... having an affair with a new motorcycle i just bought a couple weeks ago. I am on the verge of getting caught up on everything, and when I do, i plan to get back on the intake manifold project, which would be a perfect opportunity to check on the plugs.

theDreamer · 06-10-2014, 03:12 PM

Cannot believe I missed, I really have no fears of e85, just want to do it right so I don't have problems or failures.
Seeing this really makes it seem like on the Z, it can be easily done. Going to shoot you a PM phunk.

jlo370z · 06-16-2014, 10:32 PM

thoughts on a stand alone ecu?

Nissan 370Z AEM Infinity EMS Stand Alone ECU

Flex Fuel Compensated: Infinity makes automatic adjustments for ethanol content and applies them to fuel flow, ignition timing and boost target (sensor is not included).

Im pulling the trigger on E85 soon, but id really like the flex fuel option even though i have E85 next door

phunk · 06-17-2014, 03:21 AM

There are currently no known standalone ems' that are setup to run the VVEL system in the 370z. While some systems are probably powerful enough to do it, anyone that is not at the advanced skill level of engine management system configuration and calibration would not be a good candidate for attempting it. Realistically, the application will need big time direct support from the ems manufacturer. If anyone wants to run a standalone, I would recommend supplying the manufacture a detailed article on the VVEL system and asking if they feel like taking it on.. And I wouldn't believe their answer until they have actually looked at what VVEL is.

synolimit · 06-17-2014, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phunk

Apologies for temporarily abandoning my own thread just after posting it. I was away in Utah for the rest of the week and just returned.

I do all the fuel system stuff on these cars! Let me know if you needed any questions answered still. I see you guys were discussing it in the thread here.

But just to clarify... injectors and retune are all thats needed for sure. a fuel pump is a maybe for NA... i wouldnt do it unless i started to see fuel pressure drop.

You could use both E85 and 93 octane but you would have to tune 2 maps and use the map switching feature to switch over when you change fuels since the 370z does not currently have any flex fuel capability options.

But then again, nobody really knows at this point if there is much gain to be found in it. Hopefully someone will try it out soon and answer that question.

from what ive seen e85 always adds power on any car with a tune. it always just comes down to price though. for me (where im at parts wise), if what you say is true (no pump needed), then 1000cc ID injectors for like $700 for 10-15hp is worth it! 15hp might be a stretch but ive seen others with 10hp no problem.

the seals do worry me though. if they arent Vitron? then E85 will eat it. older cars get "the black sludge" where E eats everything!! i dont think you can tell this on a 370 though since we dont have a return fuel system. on older cars or return system cars its really easy to see as your sock will be solid black with tar, or it wont.

im getting a tune soon with the ported everything then again later with E and injectors and possibly fuel pump. like everything on a Z just sit back and wait a while haha.

PS...how hard is it to pull the lower manifold? can i leave the fuel rails attached to the car or do i have to pull it out of the way and relieve the pressure in the lines?

1slow370 · 06-17-2014, 05:16 AM

what he said I know motec has done it but last i checked it was north of $16k setup for it. vvel is easy enough to lock out, and then you have a wide selection of standalones, but it is definitley a race only option for sure.

synolimit · 06-17-2014, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopgunZ

Well if you have already been tuned and your tuner is cool he can check your map and see what duty cycle they are at. But I highly doubt they will be good to run E85 on. Besides, you wouldn't ever want to take your injectors to max. 80% is the max you should ever go.

If you ever tune again ask for all that information. Duty cycle, timing adv., afr's, etc....

lol you dont own a subi do you? those guys run 100-115% IDC all the time. at least with subi the IDC isnt each injector by itself. its a % of all and i cant remember how to put it. i used to know everything with them cars but its been like 2 years really talking about them so i forget. their IDC was a good 15-20% off though. if the Z is anything like it then you might be ok for high 90's and still have plenty of head room.

TopgunZ · 06-17-2014, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by synolimit

from what ive seen e85 always adds power on any car with a tune. it always just comes down to price though. for me (where im at parts wise), if what you say is true (no pump needed), then 1000cc ID injectors for like $700 for 10-15hp is worth it! 15hp might be a stretch but ive seen others with 10hp no problem.

the seals do worry me though. if they arent Vitron? then E85 will eat it. older cars get "the black sludge" where E eats everything!! i dont think you can tell this on a 370 though since we dont have a return fuel system. on older cars or return system cars its really easy to see as your sock will be solid black with tar, or it wont.

im getting a tune soon with the ported everything then again later with E and injectors and possibly fuel pump. like everything on a Z just sit back and wait a while haha.

PS...how hard is it to pull the lower manifold? can i leave the fuel rails attached to the car or do i have to pull it out of the way and relieve the pressure in the lines?

You will not want to run 1000cc's on stock pump without boost. You will atomize like crap and will have more like a jet stream then a mist and you probably wont be able to hold an idle.

You will have to pull the rails and you will have to relieve the pressure. There is a hardline that connects the feedline to the rails that needs to be taken off. It is super easy to access though. Its right in front.

Quote:

Originally Posted by synolimit

lol you dont own a subi do you? those guys run 100-115% IDC all the time. at least with subi the IDC isnt each injector by itself. its a % of all and i cant remember how to put it. i used to know everything with them cars but its been like 2 years really talking about them so i forget. their IDC was a good 15-20% off though. if the Z is anything like it then you might be ok for high 90's and still have plenty of head room.

Well I have always seen that anything over 80 is just a gamble. Yes you can run them at 100%. But that is unsafe and if your pump doesn't hold a perfect voltage, which it wont, then you are just waiting for trouble. My tuner wont let me take mine over 80 and he knows his shiz.

05-14-2014, 12:04 PM	#31 (permalink)
TopgunZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 2,651 Drives: 06 350Z , 09 370Z MT Rep Power: 6834	Any NA car is going to be fine with a walbro 255 and 600's. I am running 533whp on a 340 and 1000cc injectors. However Walbro 255 = $75 Install kit = $75 600cc's = $500 Uprev = $500 Tune= $500 $1650 for 10 HP? Not to mention you will be glued to certain stations and you can never take a decent road trip unless E85 is everywhere in the area which in most cases isn't. The only way I can see this making sense is if you are running without cats and the smell is bothering you. But it had better bother the ** out of you for that cost. elperuano, Chuck33079, jlo370z and 1 others like this. __________________ ROTREX SUPERCHARGER TUNER KITS - $6799/ CUSTOM STILLEN AIR TO AIR KITS -$2100/ 700+ WHP!! WWW.TOPGUNSPEEDWORKS.COM**

05-20-2014, 09:10 PM	#36 (permalink)
phunk A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Chicago Posts: 3,668 Drives: 370 Rep Power: 974723	600cc would just barely be enough. I see no reason to not go larger since the pricing on injectors under 1000cc is mostly the same or very close. You would not need to upgrade/replace anything in the system for E85 compatibility purposes... everything in there will hold up fine. I cannot imagine any downsides to running a slightly oversized injectors. Generally the only reason people stay away from extra large injectors is for idle quality and tuning concerns. But using high quality modern injectors, we dont need to worry about that with typical sizes like 660, 720, 880 etc etc NismOrly22 likes this. __________________ Charles @ CJ Motorsports : Website \| Facebook \| Instagram \| YouTube Home of the 9 second, stock longblock, stock drivetrain 6MT 370z. 9.91 @ 142mph

06-10-2014, 02:25 PM	#37 (permalink)
TopgunZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 2,651 Drives: 06 350Z , 09 370Z MT Rep Power: 6834	Phunk, Did you ever get those plugs pulled to check out your piston heads? I haven't had a chance to pull mine either. But planning on it this weekend. __________________ ROTREX SUPERCHARGER TUNER KITS - $6799/ CUSTOM STILLEN AIR TO AIR KITS -$2100/ 700+ WHP!! WWW.TOPGUNSPEEDWORKS.COM

06-10-2014, 03:05 PM	#38 (permalink)
phunk A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Chicago Posts: 3,668 Drives: 370 Rep Power: 974723	I havent yet! I havent been giving my Z any love at all... having an affair with a new motorcycle i just bought a couple weeks ago. I am on the verge of getting caught up on everything, and when I do, i plan to get back on the intake manifold project, which would be a perfect opportunity to check on the plugs. Rid3_FaM0uS likes this. __________________ Charles @ CJ Motorsports : Website \| Facebook \| Instagram \| YouTube Home of the 9 second, stock longblock, stock drivetrain 6MT 370z. 9.91 @ 142mph

06-10-2014, 03:12 PM	#39 (permalink)
theDreamer A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 30,879 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 4210	Cannot believe I missed, I really have no fears of e85, just want to do it right so I don't have problems or failures. Seeing this really makes it seem like on the Z, it can be easily done. Going to shoot you a PM phunk. phunk likes this. __________________ theDreamer's Z // Fast Intentions // Uprev // GTM // HKS // TEIN theDreamer's Silvia // URAS // GREDDY Houston Zs // Facebook // Twitter // Instagram

06-16-2014, 10:32 PM	#40 (permalink)
jlo370z Im a Fireball Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Ill in noise Posts: 3,370 Drives: 11 370z Red 6spd Rep Power: 43426	thoughts on a stand alone ecu? Nissan 370Z AEM Infinity EMS Stand Alone ECU Flex Fuel Compensated: Infinity makes automatic adjustments for ethanol content and applies them to fuel flow, ignition timing and boost target (sensor is not included). Im pulling the trigger on E85 soon, but id really like the flex fuel option even though i have E85 next door __________________ ❝The Jlo370Z Build❞ 523HP \| 455 ftb tq \| 11.5 PSI \| 93 Octane *2017 Porsche 991.2 C4!l*

06-17-2014, 03:21 AM	#41 (permalink)
phunk A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Chicago Posts: 3,668 Drives: 370 Rep Power: 974723	There are currently no known standalone ems' that are setup to run the VVEL system in the 370z. While some systems are probably powerful enough to do it, anyone that is not at the advanced skill level of engine management system configuration and calibration would not be a good candidate for attempting it. Realistically, the application will need big time direct support from the ems manufacturer. If anyone wants to run a standalone, I would recommend supplying the manufacture a detailed article on the VVEL system and asking if they feel like taking it on.. And I wouldn't believe their answer until they have actually looked at what VVEL is. 1slow370 likes this. __________________ Charles @ CJ Motorsports : Website \| Facebook \| Instagram \| YouTube Home of the 9 second, stock longblock, stock drivetrain 6MT 370z. 9.91 @ 142mph

06-17-2014, 05:16 AM	#43 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	what he said I know motec has done it but last i checked it was north of $16k setup for it. vvel is easy enough to lock out, and then you have a wide selection of standalones, but it is definitley a race only option for sure. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

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