GT Motorsports: 370Z Supercharger system development

1slow370 · 02-28-2010, 09:55 PM

as for rcz being a stillen fanboy.... Maybe you don't know this stormcrow but stillen has the most underdriven pulley, the second best gains in a catback exhaust, the only headers on the market for our cars, the cheapest oil cooler kit that cools oil, and THE BEST cold air intake for our cars. THis has all been proven multiple times by multiple people. Basically he is one of the few pwople on here that actually has a clue about what they are doing and try not to start fights in GTM's thread but keep in mind the new stillen kit is VERY different than the old one which had an undersized blower.

stormcrow · 02-28-2010, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1slow370

as for rcz being a stillen fanboy.... Maybe you don't know this stormcrow but stillen has the most underdriven pulley, the second best gains in a catback exhaust, the only headers on the market for our cars, the cheapest oil cooler kit that cools oil, and THE BEST cold air intake for our cars. THis has all been proven multiple times by multiple people. Basically he is one of the few pwople on here that actually has a clue about what they are doing and try not to start fights in GTM's thread but keep in mind the new stillen kit is VERY different than the old one which had an undersized blower.

We should start a new thread to debate Stillen products versus the world. This is not the place. I can tell you, though, that there is nothing new about the Stillen SC kit for the 370Z except for the fact that they ditched the Eaton roots blowers and went Vortech centrifugal.

The design, layout, and routing of multiple unnecessary water lines is still the same. The moving of key wiring harnesses and parts is still the same. The gawdy and poorly placed coolant resevoir for pre-cooler is still the same. The necessity of wiring and relays for the ECM and pre-cooler coolant pump is still the same. It's a mess. Honestly, every Stillen kit I have seen looks like it was R&D'ed in someone's backyard.

I have zero against Stillen. I have had plenty of their products. From camber/toe arms to front bumpers to sway bars to full bolt on supercharger kits. Some had issues, others did not.

But, let me point out that we are talking about the supercharger kit. None of their other products. The Stillen products that you mentioned above are more for N/A cars than F/I cars...especially underdrive pulleys and headers. Again, Stillen makes some fine products. But, given the choice of the GTM SC kit or the Stillen SC kit, those of us with experience in the F/I arena would choose the GTM kit hands down.

travisjb · 02-28-2010, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormcrow

For the record, whether or not the kit is for the 370, 350, Tundra or Pathfinder, they are all the same basic components with the same basic R&D. And as stated above, I can visually see, from the pictures posted by Kyle in the Stillen thread, the same poor product design in the 370Z kit as was in my Pathfinder kit.

what's up with you coming on this board new as F and throwing crap at folks that have made great contributions since day 1... everyone is fair play if you have specific criticism, but the crap you're spewing is based on 1-2 data points and some extrapolations about how stillen's prior work applies to this kit... fix your attitude or beat it...

and if you're going to criticism the stillen kit, you do realize there's a stillen thread for that, right? why would you come to this thread to for that? hmmm

travisjb · 02-28-2010, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormcrow

We should start a new thread to debate Stillen products versus the world...

to your credit, this is definitely more specific and our posts crossed paths... I agree on a different thread - or just go to the stillen thread and post your thoughts directly there...

Buddy Revell · 02-28-2010, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travisjb

to your credit, this is definitely more specific and our posts crossed paths... I agree on a different thread - or just go to the stillen thread and post your thoughts directly there...

Agreed. It would be interesting to read Kyle and Josh's responses on that thread to stormcrow's points about Stillen's previous and current SC kit designs.

1slow370 · 02-28-2010, 11:36 PM

well, when you use a water to air intercooler you kinda need hoses. the gtm kit is using a rotrex unit that has it's own oiling system that needs a pump, filter, ?reservoir maybe? not sure on this one, and a crapload of lines. you also need to install new front side accessory brackets, which may require wire/hose extensions. There is also the difference in tuning stillen is most likely using a cobb accessport this time instead of the piggyback they normally use and they have mentioned that they may be divorcing the iat duties from the air mass sensor and relocating them to an individual sensor in the manifold while gtm is going with a blow through setup which means they won't be able to detect pressure in the manifold from the stock 1bar map sensor and the sensors being blow through won't be able to read the extra airflow so there is going to be some serious hacking of the tune on their part to get it to run. both kits are going to have to use recirculation valves as without a pressure sensor the car would run excessively rich on off throttle if vented to atmosphere. I suggest you stop being a tool saying you know more about F/I than the rest of the world and actually read both threads like most of us have.

Edit: why don't we all go back to the boring state of sitting in the corner and waiting for both companies to actually release their kits before making decisions and being a bunch of racists prejudicing the kits based on thier manufactures. Oh and most of us think the old m62 stillen kits were retardly underpowered

SAM@GTM · 02-28-2010, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1slow370

well, when you use a water to air intercooler you kinda need hoses. the gtm kit is using a rotrex unit that has it's own oiling system that needs a pump, filter, ?reservoir maybe? not sure on this one, and a crapload of lines. you also need to install new front side accessory brackets, which may require wire/hose extensions. There is also the difference in tuning stillen is most likely using a cobb accessport this time instead of the piggyback they normally use and they have mentioned that they may be divorcing the iat duties from the air mass sensor and relocating them to an individual sensor in the manifold while gtm is going with a blow through setup which means they won't be able to detect pressure in the manifold from the stock 1bar map sensor and the sensors being blow through won't be able to read the extra airflow so there is going to be some serious hacking of the tune on their part to get it to run. both kits are going to have to use recirculation valves as without a pressure sensor the car would run excessively rich on off throttle if vented to atmosphere.

With all do respect here, you are way off with what ever you posted above in regards to reading pressure and rich off throttle. i really can't go in detail right now but i will be back to comment on you post after finishing the press release

Sam

jmlenz · 03-01-2010, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAM@GTM

With all do respect here, you are way off with what ever you posted above in regards to reading pressure and rich off throttle. i really can't go in detail right now but i will be back to comment on you post after finishing the press release

Sam

1slow370 · 03-01-2010, 12:31 AM

Sorry got a little muddled posting about both kits at once. A few pages back i asked you if you had changed out the stock MAP sensor and you had said no, being blow-through you have no way of gauging the mass of the air in the manifold then so you must have almost rewritten the tunning tables of the car as from like 3000rpm to redline the map would be maxed out. You have a blow through set up so you wouldn't have to worry about using a blow off valve as the pressure would dip below the max range of the map sensor and the engine would have all the information it would need again. The thing with not using an upgraded MAP sensor and an extended table is that any time the motor is over 1 psi it will only be able to reference a single line on any table referencing load so the motor will be running off of maybe 6 cells of the maps for fuel and igniton when ever it is under boost instead of having the full map to work from. wether you would be at 8 psi or at 2 the motor would only know it has over 1. Which is why i keep asking if you upgraded the damn map sensor or not.

Stillen on the other hand has gone the other route of draw through so even if the pressure is off it is measuring the flow of the air at atmospheric through the MAF sensor so it can calculate the mass of the air off of that and correct the way the engine runs with the maf meter tables. which through the GTM system would also be damn near maxed out when under boost, as the amount of air flowing through the sensor would remain the same only it's density would be increasing constantly. stillen would have a problem if they ran an open blow off valve as the metered air would be disappearing. The gtm kit relies on not metering anything and just telling the motor how much air it should have (unless you upgraded that MAP sensor) as they have taken a N/A car retained all the stock sensors(unless they upgraded) and the car is in no way designed to read pressures over atmospheric in that stock form unless you move sensors around like stillen has.

RCZ · 03-01-2010, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormcrow

No can do? This tells me you are wasting bandwidth. I see from your sig that you are a Stillen fanboi. No worries.

For the record, whether or not the kit is for the 370, 350, Tundra or Pathfinder, they are all the same basic components with the same basic R&D. And as stated above, I can visually see, from the pictures posted by Kyle in the Stillen thread, the same poor product design in the 370Z kit as was in my Pathfinder kit.

EDIT - Apologies, Sam, for taking your thread so far off-topic. I am truly sorry. Ending such now.

shumby · 03-01-2010, 04:24 AM

Waiting with bated breath for the prtess release

Buddy Revell · 03-01-2010, 07:23 AM

In case people somehow miss the press release thread, lol:
GTM Performance Engineering 370Z SUPERCHARGER KIT PRESS RELEASE

Phimosis · 03-01-2010, 05:19 PM

I'm in awe of the dyno numbers. That far exceeds my expectations for a s/c kit, especially with regards to low rpm performance of the centrifugal design charger.

The part that I am confused about is how do they get more power from a smaller displacment engine than the VR38DETT with less boost and using a supercharger vs turbo? At 420 rwhp that is roughly 500 hp at engine with 8psi boost, where the VR38DETT is 480 hp with 10.5 psi boost.

racerxj17 · 03-01-2010, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phimosis

I'm in awe of the dyno numbers. That far exceeds my expectations for a s/c kit, especially with regards to low rpm performance of the centrifugal design charger.

The part that I am confused about is how do they get more power from a smaller displacment engine than the VR38DETT with less boost and using a supercharger vs turbo? At 420 rwhp that is roughly 500 hp at engine with 8psi boost, where the VR38DETT is 480 hp with 10.5 psi boost.

post up the compression ratio of the two engines....

stormcrow · 03-01-2010, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travisjb

what's up with you coming on this board new as F and throwing crap at folks that have made great contributions since day 1... everyone is fair play if you have specific criticism, but the crap you're spewing is based on 1-2 data points and some extrapolations about how stillen's prior work applies to this kit... fix your attitude or beat it...

and if you're going to criticism the stillen kit, you do realize there's a stillen thread for that, right? why would you come to this thread to for that? hmmm

I saw your second post, but I just wanted to answer two questions that you posed.

Firstly, I may be new to this forum, but I am certainly not new to the modification arena or Nissan products. (it should also be obvious as to why I am new to the 370Z forum...if not, it is because I recently traded my GT-R for a 370Z. Had no real need to be on this forum until now)

To date I have:

a - modified a 2005 Infiniti G35 using Vortech's bolt on kit

b - modified a 2003 350Z with built shortblock and GReddy twins netting over 600rwhp

c - modified a 2006 Pathfinder with the Stillen SC kit

d - modified a 2009 GT-R using Cobb AP and custom tune netting 500awhp

e - modified a 2010 370Z Nismo...with ?? (remains to be seen)

Given my past experience, I am fully qualified to discuss past and current F/I kits, be it the Stillen or GTM. I am certainly not trying to be condescending towards any member of this forum, more so I am trying to educate others based on my experiences. Isn't that what these forums are all about? Sharing knowledge with one another so those of us who pioneered F/I on the VQ platform with our hard-earned money can pass on the hard lessons learned to those who are up-and-coming? If not, I will certainly "beat it" as you request.

Secondly, I have no desire to bring any of my opinions or facts of the past or present Stillen kit into their thread. I respect the vendor threads and have no desire to poison them. I admit I got sucked into posting more in this thread than I should have...but, in my own defense, it all started with me merely posting pictures of engine bays. My post was only meant to show the aesthetic sides of things as I saw them. Both were public pictures and not trade secrets.

02-28-2010, 09:55 PM	#1351 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	as for rcz being a stillen fanboy.... Maybe you don't know this stormcrow but stillen has the most underdriven pulley, the second best gains in a catback exhaust, the only headers on the market for our cars, the cheapest oil cooler kit that cools oil, and THE BEST cold air intake for our cars. THis has all been proven multiple times by multiple people. Basically he is one of the few pwople on here that actually has a clue about what they are doing and try not to start fights in GTM's thread but keep in mind the new stillen kit is VERY different than the old one which had an undersized blower. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

02-28-2010, 11:36 PM	#1356 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	well, when you use a water to air intercooler you kinda need hoses. the gtm kit is using a rotrex unit that has it's own oiling system that needs a pump, filter, ?reservoir maybe? not sure on this one, and a crapload of lines. you also need to install new front side accessory brackets, which may require wire/hose extensions. There is also the difference in tuning stillen is most likely using a cobb accessport this time instead of the piggyback they normally use and they have mentioned that they may be divorcing the iat duties from the air mass sensor and relocating them to an individual sensor in the manifold while gtm is going with a blow through setup which means they won't be able to detect pressure in the manifold from the stock 1bar map sensor and the sensors being blow through won't be able to read the extra airflow so there is going to be some serious hacking of the tune on their part to get it to run. both kits are going to have to use recirculation valves as without a pressure sensor the car would run excessively rich on off throttle if vented to atmosphere. I suggest you stop being a tool saying you know more about F/I than the rest of the world and actually read both threads like most of us have. Edit: why don't we all go back to the boring state of sitting in the corner and waiting for both companies to actually release their kits before making decisions and being a bunch of racists prejudicing the kits based on thier manufactures. Oh and most of us think the old m62 stillen kits were retardly underpowered __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50 Last edited by 1slow370; 02-28-2010 at 11:49 PM.

03-01-2010, 12:31 AM	#1359 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	Sorry got a little muddled posting about both kits at once. A few pages back i asked you if you had changed out the stock MAP sensor and you had said no, being blow-through you have no way of gauging the mass of the air in the manifold then so you must have almost rewritten the tunning tables of the car as from like 3000rpm to redline the map would be maxed out. You have a blow through set up so you wouldn't have to worry about using a blow off valve as the pressure would dip below the max range of the map sensor and the engine would have all the information it would need again. The thing with not using an upgraded MAP sensor and an extended table is that any time the motor is over 1 psi it will only be able to reference a single line on any table referencing load so the motor will be running off of maybe 6 cells of the maps for fuel and igniton when ever it is under boost instead of having the full map to work from. wether you would be at 8 psi or at 2 the motor would only know it has over 1. Which is why i keep asking if you upgraded the damn map sensor or not. Stillen on the other hand has gone the other route of draw through so even if the pressure is off it is measuring the flow of the air at atmospheric through the MAF sensor so it can calculate the mass of the air off of that and correct the way the engine runs with the maf meter tables. which through the GTM system would also be damn near maxed out when under boost, as the amount of air flowing through the sensor would remain the same only it's density would be increasing constantly. stillen would have a problem if they ran an open blow off valve as the metered air would be disappearing. The gtm kit relies on not metering anything and just telling the motor how much air it should have (unless you upgraded that MAP sensor) as they have taken a N/A car retained all the stock sensors(unless they upgraded) and the car is in no way designed to read pressures over atmospheric in that stock form unless you move sensors around like stillen has. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

03-01-2010, 04:24 AM	#1361 (permalink)
shumby Captin Canuck Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: with your mom Age: 44 Posts: 6,288 Drives: your sister Rep Power: 236	Waiting with bated breath for the prtess release __________________ Originally Posted by SAM@GTM Engine detonation is not normal and it should never never happen, and whoever told that need to do something else for living . Sam

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Official 370Z 1/4 mile Times thread (Stock, TT, Nitrous, Supercharger, Bolt ons etc)	AK370Z	Track / Autocross / Drifting / Dragstrip	618	08-16-2019 01:56 PM
GT Motorsports: 370Z Stock block testing, and turbo system development	George@GTM	Forced Induction	314	07-26-2012 09:58 AM
Vortech Supercharger Development	Minicobra1	Forced Induction	124	02-02-2010 04:59 AM
GT Motorsports 2.5" True Dual Cat-Back Exhaust system.	George@GTM	Drivetrain/Engine	24	04-27-2009 07:32 AM

03-01-2010, 07:23 AM	#1362 (permalink)
Buddy Revell Enthusiast Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: So Cal Posts: 303 Drives: 08 Infiniti G37 Rep Power: 16	In case people somehow miss the press release thread, lol: GTM Performance Engineering 370Z SUPERCHARGER KIT PRESS RELEASE

03-01-2010, 05:19 PM	#1363 (permalink)
Phimosis Enthusiast Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Oildale, CA Posts: 412 Drives: 2013 911 4S Rep Power: 416	I'm in awe of the dyno numbers. That far exceeds my expectations for a s/c kit, especially with regards to low rpm performance of the centrifugal design charger. The part that I am confused about is how do they get more power from a smaller displacment engine than the VR38DETT with less boost and using a supercharger vs turbo? At 420 rwhp that is roughly 500 hp at engine with 8psi boost, where the VR38DETT is 480 hp with 10.5 psi boost.