VQ37HR block limitations?

Orphan · 08-31-2009, 02:48 AM

Hey guys,

Well after checking out some of the TT threads I was wondering if anyone knows the limitations of the stock VQ37HR block? From what i've seen up to 12psi has been run on at least one so far. Its really too bad that its an open deck block

That said considering that 12psi TT set up I saw put out around the 500rwhp mark I guess its no limitation for most people. So standard internals and block seem to be alright for 12psi+ and 500rwhp though I imagine a safer number would be around the 450rwhp mark.

Has anyone got water injection set up on their VQ37 yet? FI + 11.0:1 CR and water injection would work quite nicely for a bit of safety margin.

EDIT: I just found some pictures of the stock block that I had on my computer, it looks pretty good even though its a open deck design. A guy I know is currently building a high CR turbo engine so it will be interesting to see how it does, he is using a closed deck v8 with 11.5:1 CR and hoping for 12-14.7psi though he hasn't mentioned if he has chosen single or twin yet.

David

KingDavid · 08-31-2009, 03:54 AM

Size of turbo matters more than lbs of boost.

Orphan · 08-31-2009, 04:01 AM

I knew someone would mention that haha :P I guess it would be better to ask what kind of combustion pressure can the stock block handle. I haven't really had much experience with open deck blocks but closed deck seem more than happy to pack in quite a lot of air without any issue any idea what the limits of the VQ37 are?

KingDavid · 08-31-2009, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orphan

I knew someone would mention that haha :P I guess it would be better to ask what kind of combustion pressure can the stock block handle. I haven't really had much experience with open deck blocks but closed deck seem more than happy to pack in quite a lot of air without any issue any idea what the limits of the VQ37 are?

Well from what the vendors have been saying, it's not a good idea to go beyond 550whp. Although they have taken it past 600whp just fine.

Orphan · 09-01-2009, 06:00 AM

mrmixitup by all out do you mean just a stand alone ecu and wideband etc or do you mean a full bottom end build? If the bottom end build will you be keeping the 11.0:1 CR? Honestly from what i've seen if you can tune the factory ECU its better as you can retain factory features and past Nissan ECU's have been very easily tuned so I guess we will just have to see what comes out to tune it with. I'm sure NisRom or whatever will have a set up for the VQ37HR soon enough. Stand alone starts to get ahead when it comes to additional sensors or extra maps etc as most factory ECU's haven't been designed to expand on what they come with stock. I can't see any reason why the factory ECU wouldn't be fine for most builds not to mention save you the $2k for a good stand alone unit. I know older nissan ECU's can be made to work with a wideband so I would assume it should be possible with the VQ37HR as well.

Based on the internals from previous Nissan engines I would say 500rwhp would be about the safe maximum which is still pretty impressive, it means that 95% of people will be able to get their goals on the stock block.

I wonder what results will be had once people start fooling around with the VVEL on the intake cams, its a shame they didn't bother to put any valve control system on the exhaust side, I can see reason for it but I guess the cost/benifit wasn't in it by Nissans thinking or penny counting.

KingDavid · 09-01-2009, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orphan

mrmixitup by all out do you mean just a stand alone ecu and wideband etc or do you mean a full bottom end build? If the bottom end build will you be keeping the 11.0:1 CR? Honestly from what i've seen if you can tune the factory ECU its better as you can retain factory features and past Nissan ECU's have been very easily tuned so I guess we will just have to see what comes out to tune it with. I'm sure NisRom or whatever will have a set up for the VQ37HR soon enough. Stand alone starts to get ahead when it comes to additional sensors or extra maps etc as most factory ECU's haven't been designed to expand on what they come with stock. I can't see any reason why the factory ECU wouldn't be fine for most builds not to mention save you the $2k for a good stand alone unit. I know older nissan ECU's can be made to work with a wideband so I would assume it should be possible with the VQ37HR as well.

Based on the internals from previous Nissan engines I would say 500rwhp would be about the safe maximum which is still pretty impressive, it means that 95% of people will be able to get their goals on the stock block.

I wonder what results will be had once people start fooling around with the VVEL on the intake cams, its a shame they didn't bother to put any valve control system on the exhaust side, I can see reason for it but I guess the cost/benifit wasn't in it by Nissans thinking or penny counting.

The safe maximum is 550whp as per GTM and some vendors.

400hp N/A on a stock block seems very, very possible, lol. People are hitting 340-350whp with just I/H/E and a tune...CAn't wait for some more mods to come in and take it to that 400hp mark. ^_^

mrmixitup · 08-31-2009, 05:44 PM

It's all in the tuning. Plan to go all out when I turbo my car inlcuding an wideband and likely a standalone.

edeeZee · 09-02-2009, 12:34 AM

Some of the sponsors/vendors on this site, not to vilify them, don't give a sh&t if you get a TT set up from them, and shortly thereafter you blow the motor despite them tuning it to "safe" levels of boost. They're here to make money.

They say 500hp is "safe." These vendors are gonna tell you anything you wanna hear. I honestly don't think 500hp streetable is realistic, more like 400hp. C'mon, a VQ motor is a corporate motor in a truck, passenger car, minivan and whatever Nissan makes. On the other hand, a Ferrari motor is engineered to take 12:1 compression ratio, use certain alloys for its block, etc. to get their motors to pump out 500hp all motor, they're high-performance motors per se whereas VQ's aren't.

But the caveat is that you know that building your motor aftermarket is risky despite anything vendors say is "safe."

Orphan · 09-02-2009, 01:14 AM

I think that is a good point that you can't trust vendors to give the most accurate information. From all the pictures i've seen the VQ37 is quite a bit beefier than the VQ35 which seemed to be good to around 400-450hp before breaking stuff. If you just bought a brand new G37/370z are you really going to risk loosing an engine over 50hp or take it a bit easier and be safe.

FYI the VQ30DET is good for 500rwhp standard but that was an engine engineered for forced induction from factory. As there isn't much actual experience with the VQ37 yet I'd assume the safe limit is in the 400-500whp range.

KingDavid · 09-02-2009, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edeeZee

Some of the sponsors/vendors on this site, not to vilify them, don't give a sh&t if you get a TT set up from them, and shortly thereafter you blow the motor despite them tuning it to "safe" levels of boost. They're here to make money.

They say 500hp is "safe." These vendors are gonna tell you anything you wanna hear. I honestly don't think 500hp streetable is realistic, more like 400hp. C'mon, a VQ motor is a corporate motor in a truck, passenger car, minivan and whatever Nissan makes. On the other hand, a Ferrari motor is engineered to take 12:1 compression ratio, use certain alloys for its block, etc. to get their motors to pump out 500hp all motor, they're high-performance motors per se whereas VQ's aren't.

But the caveat is that you know that building your motor aftermarket is risky despite anything vendors say is "safe."

Not exactly the vendors. It's the company that makes the kit themselves. GTM has said that 550whp is just where you want to be safe with this block.

I don't know why I said vendors. Pardon the stupidity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orphan

I think that is a good point that you can't trust vendors to give the most accurate information. From all the pictures i've seen the VQ37 is quite a bit beefier than the VQ35 which seemed to be good to around 400-450hp before breaking stuff. If you just bought a brand new G37/370z are you really going to risk loosing an engine over 50hp or take it a bit easier and be safe.

FYI the VQ30DET is good for 500rwhp standard but that was an engine engineered for forced induction from factory. As there isn't much actual experience with the VQ37 yet I'd assume the safe limit is in the 400-500whp range.

**** if it were me, I'd do full bolt-ons, tune, and a 100shot.

NIZMOZ · 09-04-2009, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edeeZee

Some of the sponsors/vendors on this site, not to vilify them, don't give a sh&t if you get a TT set up from them, and shortly thereafter you blow the motor despite them tuning it to "safe" levels of boost. They're here to make money.

They say 500hp is "safe." These vendors are gonna tell you anything you wanna hear. I honestly don't think 500hp streetable is realistic, more like 400hp. C'mon, a VQ motor is a corporate motor in a truck, passenger car, minivan and whatever Nissan makes. On the other hand, a Ferrari motor is engineered to take 12:1 compression ratio, use certain alloys for its block, etc. to get their motors to pump out 500hp all motor, they're high-performance motors per se whereas VQ's aren't.

But the caveat is that you know that building your motor aftermarket is risky despite anything vendors say is "safe."

The HR was designed after the GT-R motor with some of the same internals. The HR does handle boost just fine. If the VQ35DE can handle 400 safe, the HR can easily handle that safely. 450-500 I would say is the safe zone for any HR powered car, 3.5 and 3.7.

The other cars in Nissan's line up are not the same engine, yes they are a VQ, but they are completely different.

KingDavid · 09-02-2009, 07:21 PM

Crank HP doesn't really mean **** in the end though. Power under the curve > *

G37Sam · 09-02-2009, 08:02 PM

Luckily, no VQ37VHR block has failed yet from boost (that I've known of) so one can't really tell yet the actual limit. But again, there are short term & long term stresses which can cause failures to the block. Yes, crank up the boost on the dyno to even say 700whp your block might not go airborne, but take a 500whp tune and live on the track for sometime and you will kiss it goodbye. GTM said you should be safe with a stage 1 on a stock block (500whp almost) but only time can verify that.

Funny how a TT'd 350Z (in Dubai) brags about pushing 500 ponies to the wheels calls himself the stock block killer when he doesn't even know what his car sounds like at 5k rpm lol

kannibul · 09-03-2009, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G37Sam

Luckily, no VQ37VHR block has failed yet from boost (that I've known of) so one can't really tell yet the actual limit. But again, there are short term & long term stresses which can cause failures to the block. Yes, crank up the boost on the dyno to even say 700whp your block might not go airborne, but take a 500whp tune and live on the track for sometime and you will kiss it goodbye. GTM said you should be safe with a stage 1 on a stock block (500whp almost) but only time can verify that.

Funny how a TT'd 350Z (in Dubai) brags about pushing 500 ponies to the wheels calls himself the stock block killer when he doesn't even know what his car sounds like at 5k rpm lol

That, and money, are exactly why I plan to wait a few years before doing any sort of Forced Induction. Let the nuts that have the money to do so, do so and blow up their stuff...if they don't, good for them!

bullitt5897 · 09-03-2009, 12:44 PM

Didnt GTM just Release a G37 coupe pushing 611 rwhp and 474ft/lbs just a lil while back on a stock block? Thats roughly 700+hp at the crank!!! We really need GTM or Forged performance to step in here and tell us what they have experienced with the G37's and that should give us an indication of the capabilities of our engines...

08-31-2009, 02:48 AM	#1 (permalink)
Orphan Base Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Brisbane Posts: 13 Drives: SC400 Rep Power: 16	VQ37HR block limitations? Hey guys, Well after checking out some of the TT threads I was wondering if anyone knows the limitations of the stock VQ37HR block? From what i've seen up to 12psi has been run on at least one so far. Its really too bad that its an open deck block That said considering that 12psi TT set up I saw put out around the 500rwhp mark I guess its no limitation for most people. So standard internals and block seem to be alright for 12psi+ and 500rwhp though I imagine a safer number would be around the 450rwhp mark. Has anyone got water injection set up on their VQ37 yet? FI + 11.0:1 CR and water injection would work quite nicely for a bit of safety margin. EDIT: I just found some pictures of the stock block that I had on my computer, it looks pretty good even though its a open deck design. A guy I know is currently building a high CR turbo engine so it will be interesting to see how it does, he is using a closed deck v8 with 11.5:1 CR and hoping for 12-14.7psi though he hasn't mentioned if he has chosen single or twin yet. David Last edited by Orphan; 08-31-2009 at 02:53 AM.

08-31-2009, 04:01 AM	#3 (permalink)
Orphan Base Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Brisbane Posts: 13 Drives: SC400 Rep Power: 16	I knew someone would mention that haha :P I guess it would be better to ask what kind of combustion pressure can the stock block handle. I haven't really had much experience with open deck blocks but closed deck seem more than happy to pack in quite a lot of air without any issue any idea what the limits of the VQ37 are? Last edited by Orphan; 08-31-2009 at 04:03 AM.

09-01-2009, 06:00 AM	#5 (permalink)
Orphan Base Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Brisbane Posts: 13 Drives: SC400 Rep Power: 16	mrmixitup by all out do you mean just a stand alone ecu and wideband etc or do you mean a full bottom end build? If the bottom end build will you be keeping the 11.0:1 CR? Honestly from what i've seen if you can tune the factory ECU its better as you can retain factory features and past Nissan ECU's have been very easily tuned so I guess we will just have to see what comes out to tune it with. I'm sure NisRom or whatever will have a set up for the VQ37HR soon enough. Stand alone starts to get ahead when it comes to additional sensors or extra maps etc as most factory ECU's haven't been designed to expand on what they come with stock. I can't see any reason why the factory ECU wouldn't be fine for most builds not to mention save you the $2k for a good stand alone unit. I know older nissan ECU's can be made to work with a wideband so I would assume it should be possible with the VQ37HR as well. Based on the internals from previous Nissan engines I would say 500rwhp would be about the safe maximum which is still pretty impressive, it means that 95% of people will be able to get their goals on the stock block. I wonder what results will be had once people start fooling around with the VVEL on the intake cams, its a shame they didn't bother to put any valve control system on the exhaust side, I can see reason for it but I guess the cost/benifit wasn't in it by Nissans thinking or penny counting. Last edited by Orphan; 09-01-2009 at 06:06 AM.

08-31-2009, 05:44 PM	#7 (permalink)
mrmixitup Base Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: OK Posts: 117 Drives: 09 White 370Z 6M Spt Rep Power: 276	It's all in the tuning. Plan to go all out when I turbo my car inlcuding an wideband and likely a standalone. __________________ 2009 370Z Sport/6M

09-02-2009, 08:02 PM	#13 (permalink)
G37Sam A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Dubai, UAE Posts: 1,507 Drives: RB'd G37 Rep Power: 21	Luckily, no VQ37VHR block has failed yet from boost (that I've known of) so one can't really tell yet the actual limit. But again, there are short term & long term stresses which can cause failures to the block. Yes, crank up the boost on the dyno to even say 700whp your block might not go airborne, but take a 500whp tune and live on the track for sometime and you will kiss it goodbye. GTM said you should be safe with a stage 1 on a stock block (500whp almost) but only time can verify that. Funny how a TT'd 350Z (in Dubai) brags about pushing 500 ponies to the wheels calls himself the stock block killer when he doesn't even know what his car sounds like at 5k rpm lol __________________ '14 Viper GTS '08 RB'd G37S - Sold

08-31-2009, 03:54 AM	#2 (permalink)
KingDavid Base Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Miami Posts: 176 Drives: A car Rep Power: 17	Size of turbo matters more than lbs of boost.

09-02-2009, 12:34 AM	#8 (permalink)
edeeZee Track Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: s. cali, los angeles Posts: 627 Drives: 09 370z plat 6 speed Rep Power: 266	Some of the sponsors/vendors on this site, not to vilify them, don't give a sh&t if you get a TT set up from them, and shortly thereafter you blow the motor despite them tuning it to "safe" levels of boost. They're here to make money. They say 500hp is "safe." These vendors are gonna tell you anything you wanna hear. I honestly don't think 500hp streetable is realistic, more like 400hp. C'mon, a VQ motor is a corporate motor in a truck, passenger car, minivan and whatever Nissan makes. On the other hand, a Ferrari motor is engineered to take 12:1 compression ratio, use certain alloys for its block, etc. to get their motors to pump out 500hp all motor, they're high-performance motors per se whereas VQ's aren't. But the caveat is that you know that building your motor aftermarket is risky despite anything vendors say is "safe."

09-02-2009, 01:14 AM	#9 (permalink)
Orphan Base Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Brisbane Posts: 13 Drives: SC400 Rep Power: 16	I think that is a good point that you can't trust vendors to give the most accurate information. From all the pictures i've seen the VQ37 is quite a bit beefier than the VQ35 which seemed to be good to around 400-450hp before breaking stuff. If you just bought a brand new G37/370z are you really going to risk loosing an engine over 50hp or take it a bit easier and be safe. FYI the VQ30DET is good for 500rwhp standard but that was an engine engineered for forced induction from factory. As there isn't much actual experience with the VQ37 yet I'd assume the safe limit is in the 400-500whp range.

09-02-2009, 07:21 PM	#12 (permalink)
KingDavid Base Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Miami Posts: 176 Drives: A car Rep Power: 17	Crank HP doesn't really mean **** in the end though. Power under the curve > *

09-03-2009, 12:44 PM	#15 (permalink)
bullitt5897 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: North GA Posts: 6,831 Drives: Twin Turbo Z34 Rep Power: 3683	Didnt GTM just Release a G37 coupe pushing 611 rwhp and 474ft/lbs just a lil while back on a stock block? Thats roughly 700+hp at the crank!!! We really need GTM or Forged performance to step in here and tell us what they have experienced with the G37's and that should give us an indication of the capabilities of our engines... __________________ *Shop Cars: 2013 318whp Nismo VspecII 370z SOLD, 2009 1000hp+ 93oct 4.0L TT 370z Fast Intentions STAGE 4 #054*

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