GTM MHI Kit Group Buy Participants...

Dzel · 06-09-2014, 04:23 PM

If the court will read back my statements, you will see that I never stated anything on a person's health nor did I Perjure myself.

Sent with TapAhoe

1slow370 · 06-09-2014, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzel

If the court will read back my statements, you will see that I never stated anything on a person's health nor did I Perjure myself.

Sent with TapAhoe

It wasn't you it was more baer who for 2 or 3 pages decided to be *** and get people to jump in on something he was wrong about. I see now that he has gone back and deleted it. The last thing we need around here are rumors that just make things worse for no reason. The situation is pretty clear, GTM still exists, where the kits are at nobody knows, stuff is taking FO EVAH, if you are in and want your' money back take the steps you need to it's up to you.

1slow370 · 06-09-2014, 06:13 PM

page 43 onto page 44, haven't looked at this in a while, but it looks like it was mostly edited out or deleted a week ago.

shaun66 · 06-09-2014, 06:28 PM

I still don't see why they wouldn't update a group buy they are in charge of that they started on the forum...

DEpointfive0 · 06-09-2014, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaun66

I still don't see why they wouldn't update a group buy they are in charge of that they started on the forum...

Even though I posted what I just posted, I'm still in the pitchfork brigade.

If Sam said the slow boat from China was taking too long or that they changed the design or whatever, you bet your áss I'd be the first guy getting the

out and saying, "mhmmmm... The slow boat is slow, but fúck are we first going to build a bridge along the Bering Straight first?"

1slow370 · 06-09-2014, 06:36 PM

We don't know all we can do is speculate, I would guess they aren't done yet and since no one would believe what they have to say until stuff actually started shipping, there really isn't much point of them saying anything anyway.

DEpointfive0 · 06-09-2014, 06:55 PM

There was a post saying that Sam's head was shaved and had a HUGE cut in it.

Not sure how that was misinterpreted for small injury and that the guy is faking it. You know, because I too love shaving half my head and x-acto knifing it open for shitz n giggles.

Just to put it out there, if you search the forums, you WILL find people who have the MHI kit, you will even find the guy who has the GTR manifold kit, so obviously GTM is pumping SOMETHING out, it's just that we don't really see it in the pitchfork brigade.

I will say that I still don't agree with the way the guy is running the business. I think he should hand off the baton to his employees. I think his employees CAN help people better than he can at this point. And you bet your áss I think you guys should still try to get your money back/run from GTM until they have stock of products...

37winner · 06-09-2014, 09:41 PM

^have you worked on your heads? Custom valve train etc? If you have how did you get the ladle to sync up with the vvel, and the solenoid stuff going back to how it was?

Dzel · 06-09-2014, 10:08 PM

Stay on topic.

If their moving ahead in other areas. That means that the profit made on this group buy is going to unfinished projects. In turn the kit is going and has been on the back burner... That explains a lot.

Sent with tapahoe

1slow370 · 06-09-2014, 10:18 PM

what profit?

Lets remember here that very few people every paid and probably all but a few refunded, and im positive that this kit is in the 6 digit area for development costs.

A more likely scenario goes gtm wanted to make a new, kit, they gambeled on starting a group buy to mass up the r&d funds, so many people signed up that they put a really low price on it, cost escalated on the kit, this lead to the slow down, everyone started refunding pulling money that was already spent on the r&d out of the company, and now they have to cover it all out of pocket slowly as it comes in from other business to complete the kits.

They probably have to come up with as much new stuff as they can to drum up the business to cover the defunded groupbuy.

mikey1600 · 06-09-2014, 10:51 PM

so people are expected to wait over 1 year after the expected delivery date? lol what a joke, I've got my refund coming, I paid 1 year ago in full yesterday, I've got PM's/emails from Mike and Sam saying the kit will be ready to go by June/July 2013.

can you really blame people for getting a refund? If they would have kept updates flowing I'm sure majority of people would still be in the group buy, I know I would, but when there's no communication and when you ring and they promise things then don't hold up the deal, that's when it gets scary.

for almost a year now we've been waiting on "cast parts" EVEN IF a manifold is made and there is something wrong with it for testing purposes and things need to be revised, the updates need to come to tell us why it's not good or what they are improving, it doesn't take 1 year to develop some manifolds.

even if they came in and showed us some photos of the parts, and said look guys this is really not up to our standard, we need to change something or make something easier/better to use, majority of people would still be in here waiting for the kit, it's all about the communication, when there is no communication that's when things become a problem. If I ran my business the way they do, I'd be out on the street probably sleeping in the gutter, different industries but communication is still key.

the last chance for me to stay in was getting the existing items in stock which was apparently everything except for 2x manifolds/some sensor item shipped and I'd even pay extra shipping which Sam agree'd to over the phone then couldn't deliver after me giving him 3 days to get the "picking list" sorted then not delivering, also people saying they are waiting weeks/months to get a refund, moneys getting slim.

If I was local to the shop and I could swing by and check it out in person, I may still even be in it, but there's just too many negatives.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1slow370

what profit?

Lets remember here that very few people every paid and probably all but a few refunded, and im positive that this kit is in the 6 digit area for development costs.

A more likely scenario goes gtm wanted to make a new, kit, they gambeled on starting a group buy to mass up the r&d funds, so many people signed up that they put a really low price on it, cost escalated on the kit, this lead to the slow down, everyone started refunding pulling money that was already spent on the r&d out of the company, and now they have to cover it all out of pocket slowly as it comes in from other business to complete the kits.

They probably have to come up with as much new stuff as they can to drum up the business to cover the defunded groupbuy.

Dajerseyrat · 06-09-2014, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1slow370

what profit?

Lets remember here that very few people every paid and probably all but a few refunded, and im positive that this kit is in the 6 digit area for development costs.

A more likely scenario goes gtm wanted to make a new, kit, they gambeled on starting a group buy to mass up the r&d funds, so many people signed up that they put a really low price on it, cost escalated on the kit, this lead to the slow down, everyone started refunding pulling money that was already spent on the r&d out of the company, and now they have to cover it all out of pocket slowly as it comes in from other business to complete the kits.

They probably have to come up with as much new stuff as they can to drum up the business to cover the defunded groupbuy.

So is it safe to say that everyone who entered the group buy is officially an INVESTOR ?? Since they paid the R&D for a company that did not yet have a product to physically sell..Are they entitled to a % of future sales as a result of funding the project?

If you dont have an actual product to sell how are you selling it?

1slow370 · 06-09-2014, 10:58 PM

i'm not blaming any one, and you are right the original timeline was a disaster, in the end you gotta do what you gotta do for you, I'm just stating what probably hapened. If the group buy had been for 50 people, at a higher price, with a mandatory deposit, and they had originaly said it would take a year longer than they did, these kits would probably be done by now.

Another option would have been to finance or plan to pay for the r&d entirely out of pocket the whole time, that way the the kits could have kept rolling along until the eventual release then they could have just brought it out at the full 8-10k price instead of taking a break on each one. I'm not blaming anyone I'm sure everyone involved thought this would go down differently, I just threw out a POSSIBLE way that this all happened.

If what I said was the case, then for those still in it you either can wait for them to finish it entirely out of pocket not knowing when that will be(who knows maybe it is almost done maybe it isn't) or you can refund and pull out and wait for either your bank to pay or for gtm to have enough regular buisness to cover it. I don't believe they are or were trying to screw anyone over, they were just banking on things not having as many delays as they did, it was simple over optimism that lead to the group buy funds that should have covered the r&d, production, and then some, being pulled out and taking funds from other projects. That isn't a ponzy scheme it's a risky yet potentially very profitable decision x bad luck x fault in execution. If they manage to get in a position to ship the kits it could still pay off, but all the **** that went down it will be a tough sell at first. At this point the most profitable option they have is to refund those who are still in, cancel the group buy and bring the kit to market at full price when they finish it and accept the blow to the company image and try to recover.

If they don't do that and decide to bring out at group buy price to those still in it maybe they can get some sales based on the price but it will still be a smaller number in which case they could recover more with a better margin due to the lower volume and canceling the group buy would still be the sensible choice.

Everyone wants jump on the ponzy/fraud wagon when there is a much easier and more plausible explanation for it all they had good intentions, took a risk, it isn't working out, and know it has turned into a bad decision in hindsight and all they can do is do WHATEVER they have to pull it off and try to keep from ending up homeless. If he had really wanted to screw you all over he would have taken ALL the money up front signed out on a custom products/non-refundable contract got past the initial 6 months, folded up shop and retired in the bahama's instead of going through what to him must seem like slowly cutting of a leg with a rusty butter knife for a year and a half.

MMC Racing · 06-10-2014, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1slow370

Everyone wants jump on the ponzy/fraud wagon when there is a much easier and more plausible explanation for it all they had good intentions, took a risk, it isn't working out, and know it has turned into a bad decision in hindsight and all they can do is do WHATEVER they have to pull it off and try to keep from ending up homeless. If he had really wanted to screw you all over he would have taken ALL the money up front signed out on a custom products/non-refundable contract got past the initial 6 months, folded up shop and retired in the bahama's instead of going through what to him must seem like slowly cutting of a leg with a rusty butter knife for a year and a half.

Oh poor Sam. Having to live with all his mistakes. Maybe we should start a charity to help the poor guy out. I'll make the first .02 donation to kick it off.

FPenvy · 06-10-2014, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMC Racing

Oh poor Sam. Having to live with all his mistakes. Maybe we should start a charity to help the poor guy out. I'll make the first .02 donation to kick it off.

i thought this "group buy" was a direct deposit to his charity/retirement fund to begin with?

06-09-2014, 04:23 PM	#1 (permalink)
Dzel A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2011 Location: Midland, TX Posts: 3,884 Drives: 11 370Z PW M6 Rep Power: 23	If the court will read back my statements, you will see that I never stated anything on a person's health nor did I Perjure myself. Sent with TapAhoe __________________ 10secWS6 IF YOU CAN'T SWING IT THEN DON'T BRING IT! Check out Domestic Performance C.C. Last edited by Dzel; 06-09-2014 at 04:28 PM.

06-09-2014, 06:13 PM	#3 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	page 43 onto page 44, haven't looked at this in a while, but it looks like it was mostly edited out or deleted a week ago. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

06-09-2014, 06:36 PM	#6 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	We don't know all we can do is speculate, I would guess they aren't done yet and since no one would believe what they have to say until stuff actually started shipping, there really isn't much point of them saying anything anyway. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

06-09-2014, 06:55 PM	#7 (permalink)
DEpointfive0 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: SoCal Posts: 14,824 Drives: a lot Rep Power: 17152	There was a post saying that Sam's head was shaved and had a HUGE cut in it. Not sure how that was misinterpreted for small injury and that the guy is faking it. You know, because I too love shaving half my head and x-acto knifing it open for shitz n giggles. Just to put it out there, if you search the forums, you WILL find people who have the MHI kit, you will even find the guy who has the GTR manifold kit, so obviously GTM is pumping SOMETHING out, it's just that we don't really see it in the pitchfork brigade. I will say that I still don't agree with the way the guy is running the business. I think he should hand off the baton to his employees. I think his employees CAN help people better than he can at this point. And you bet your áss I think you guys should still try to get your money back/run from GTM until they have stock of products... __________________ Do YOU want to know what/where I got my username from? ( Click to show/hide ) NSFW due to language:

06-09-2014, 10:08 PM	#9 (permalink)
Dzel A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2011 Location: Midland, TX Posts: 3,884 Drives: 11 370Z PW M6 Rep Power: 23	Stay on topic. If their moving ahead in other areas. That means that the profit made on this group buy is going to unfinished projects. In turn the kit is going and has been on the back burner... That explains a lot. Sent with tapahoe __________________ 10secWS6 IF YOU CAN'T SWING IT THEN DON'T BRING IT! Check out Domestic Performance C.C.

06-09-2014, 06:28 PM	#4 (permalink)
shaun66 Track Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: n Posts: 837 Drives: MB 370z 7AT Rep Power: 17	I still don't see why they wouldn't update a group buy they are in charge of that they started on the forum...

06-09-2014, 09:41 PM	#8 (permalink)
37winner Base Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: usa Posts: 126 Drives: USMC Boots Rep Power: 12	^have you worked on your heads? Custom valve train etc? If you have how did you get the ladle to sync up with the vvel, and the solenoid stuff going back to how it was?

06-09-2014, 10:18 PM	#10 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	what profit? Lets remember here that very few people every paid and probably all but a few refunded, and im positive that this kit is in the 6 digit area for development costs. A more likely scenario goes gtm wanted to make a new, kit, they gambeled on starting a group buy to mass up the r&d funds, so many people signed up that they put a really low price on it, cost escalated on the kit, this lead to the slow down, everyone started refunding pulling money that was already spent on the r&d out of the company, and now they have to cover it all out of pocket slowly as it comes in from other business to complete the kits. They probably have to come up with as much new stuff as they can to drum up the business to cover the defunded groupbuy. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50 Last edited by 1slow370; 06-09-2014 at 10:33 PM.

06-09-2014, 10:58 PM	#13 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	i'm not blaming any one, and you are right the original timeline was a disaster, in the end you gotta do what you gotta do for you, I'm just stating what probably hapened. If the group buy had been for 50 people, at a higher price, with a mandatory deposit, and they had originaly said it would take a year longer than they did, these kits would probably be done by now. Another option would have been to finance or plan to pay for the r&d entirely out of pocket the whole time, that way the the kits could have kept rolling along until the eventual release then they could have just brought it out at the full 8-10k price instead of taking a break on each one. I'm not blaming anyone I'm sure everyone involved thought this would go down differently, I just threw out a POSSIBLE way that this all happened. If what I said was the case, then for those still in it you either can wait for them to finish it entirely out of pocket not knowing when that will be(who knows maybe it is almost done maybe it isn't) or you can refund and pull out and wait for either your bank to pay or for gtm to have enough regular buisness to cover it. I don't believe they are or were trying to screw anyone over, they were just banking on things not having as many delays as they did, it was simple over optimism that lead to the group buy funds that should have covered the r&d, production, and then some, being pulled out and taking funds from other projects. That isn't a ponzy scheme it's a risky yet potentially very profitable decision x bad luck x fault in execution. If they manage to get in a position to ship the kits it could still pay off, but all the ** that went down it will be a tough sell at first. At this point the most profitable option they have is to refund those who are still in, cancel the group buy and bring the kit to market at full price when they finish it and accept the blow to the company image and try to recover. If they don't do that and decide to bring out at group buy price to those still in it maybe they can get some sales based on the price but it will still be a smaller number in which case they could recover more with a better margin due to the lower volume and canceling the group buy would still be the sensible choice. Everyone wants jump on the ponzy/fraud wagon when there is a much easier and more plausible explanation for it all they had good intentions, took a risk, it isn't working out, and know it has turned into a bad decision in hindsight and all they can do is do WHATEVER they have to pull it off and try to keep from ending up homeless. If he had really wanted to screw you all over he would have taken ALL the money up front signed out on a custom products/non-refundable contract got past the initial 6 months, folded up shop and retired in the bahama's instead of going through what to him must seem like slowly cutting of a leg with a rusty butter knife for a year and a half. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST** Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50 Last edited by 1slow370; 06-09-2014 at 11:37 PM.

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