Blown Motor, Engine Rebuild/Replacement.

Chuck33079 · 02-06-2014, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1slow370

And again that post was made by the guy selling them

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While I understand that, your little go-round with him on the intake manifold colors our perception of you much as the fact that he's the vendor colors our perception of him. He's brought a lot of good stuff to the communitiy. What have you brought? If you're going to say his post (which still may have never existed

) is motivated by selling product, you've got to bring a little more information to the table to say why. He's usually pretty good about showing the data.

Edit- How about we table this until phunk chimes in. We're debating two sides of a post that may not exist

Cosmo, I just **** up your thread every day.

1slow370 · 02-06-2014, 02:33 PM

I did say why there are plenty of guys running no dampers with NO issues. My point return u dont need them but hey hug those nuts bro just dont tell people they need to spend money on **** with little to no gains

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COSMO · 02-06-2014, 02:35 PM

Alright guys lets not have this thread Locked so that others may use this as a guide...

1slow370 · 02-06-2014, 02:40 PM

Ok back on topic yeah cosmo ur gonna need a few pieces to get that kit to work both companies sell them.

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phunk · 02-06-2014, 02:42 PM

I have sold more fuel rails for the VQ than any manufacturer, guaranteed. Several hundreds of sets. I have more user and tuner feedback than anyone on the matter.

No engine NEEDS dampers. But there are side effects to removing, and the VQ is very sensitive to it. You run into lean spots than cannot be tuned out.

Many DE cars were suffering adverse side effects from removing them, and customers REQUESTED that we make a new rail with dampers. We did as requested, and even offered a several month long exchange program to swap out rails for customers experiencing the side effects. We gave out TONS of rails at hardly over our cost of time and material in exchange for the old rails back to mostly destroy to keep the used fuel rail market from flooding and halting our normal sales.

There are long threads on the issue on the 350z forum, including a member showing datalogs going from no dampers, to 1, to 2, and eventually to 3.

My personal 370z running the a prototype fuel system configuration where I removed just 1 of the 3 dampers already developed a lean hesitation at 3100rpm.

Not all cars will experience it on a level that is noticeable to the driver. Datalogs will show it on any car with them removed. I have never found the ryhme or reason that determines which cars suffer and which dont. We had customers experience it with different regulators, different pumps, and all various injectors.

We had so many customers that DID experience, that it was foolish to continue production of rails that do not have them, when we can just simply prevent the problem from occurring for everyone.

The problem will easily be brushed off by many as a tuning quirk or side effect of a highly modified vehicle. But it is actually completely correctable.

Personally, I dont care one way or another which system cosmo buys. SOMEONE is going to buy this used GTM system, which is one less sale of my system. So... makes no difference who buys it. I actually sort of hope cosmo does... cause he seems like the type that will speak his mind. Now that I am calling attention to the side effects he is going to see, he can simply see them for himself, and later on I will just sell him some rails that can swap right in and fix the problem.

Its a win for all of us!

~2400rpm, ~3100rpm : Pay attention to how the car drives at part throttle light acceleration through these RPM ranges after you install the system.

phunk · 02-06-2014, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1slow370

no need for fuel dampers on a returnless system since our cars don't have an issue with it. subarus develop a lean spot at a specific rpm range if they dont have enough lines or damper. braided line also expands and acts as a damper as well so when you add a -6/-8 supply line you are adding one giant damper. lots of guys are running rails with no dampers and not having an issue, it only matters when you have a lean spot that can't be tuned out and always develops at the same rpm, usually on the cylinder furthest from the inlet on the rail, which can also be caused by not enough pressure or pump. returnless it is a bigger issue

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1slow370

checked his pm's maybe? either way dampers on a return system are not neccesary, I've seen 3000hp cars with no dampers. You know whos gonna tell you that you need them? the guy selling them.

Perhaps you should write Nissan and tell them about your idea that could same them tens of thousands of dollars every year?

Chuck33079 · 02-06-2014, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1slow370

I did say why there are plenty of guys running no dampers with NO issues. My point return u dont need them but hey hug those nuts bro just dont tell people they need to spend money on **** with little to no gains

Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk

Easy there dude. It was just a question. I still have never seen any parts you have designed for this community. So when you say a person who has contributed is motivated by selling product, you need to back up a statement like that.

phunk · 02-06-2014, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1slow370

checked his pm's maybe? either way dampers on a return system are not neccesary, I've seen 3000hp cars with no dampers. You know whos gonna tell you that you need them? the guy selling them.

A rather ignorant comment of yours. I do not appreciate your attitude about my personality at all. Simply because someone is selling an item, doesn't make them guilty of attempting to CON you.

A 3000hp car without dampers? The harmonics have no relation to the engine horsepower. They are also unnoticed during heavy acceleration because you pass through the "bad" RPMs very quickly. This a driveability issue, and totally unrelated to dyno graphs and horsepower.

We have gone back and updated every fuel system we make to integrate dampers. We did NOT have to revisit our systems that I can hardly keep in stock. We did it for our customers to have a better final product.

You're not correct at all... but lets pretend you were right about anything. Is there any reason to remove them? I mean... you already own them, they are on the engine already... if you can keep something that Nissan thinks your engine needs to run more smoothly, and it doesnt even cost you anything... why not?

There are endless reports of the issue in the DE world. I personally saw the issue on my own VHR, and 2 weeks ago I was contacted by a popular Z tuner about a 370z with GTM rails, hesitating and bucking at the specified RPMs. I guess we will see how that gets fixed?

What is the honest truth... do you NEED dampers on your VQ. No. Will your car run and drive smoother with them? YES, proven several times over now. How bad is it if you don't have any? It is anyone's best guess, as the severity ranges based on currently unknown determining factors. Some customers were completely fed up and annoyed by it, while many say they never noticed an issue. In the end, why leave the slack for it? Just do it right, and its done.

COSMO · 02-06-2014, 02:56 PM

Let me point out the reason I started this thread was to get feedback from others who have (been there and done that) and know what works and what doesn't. That being said I appreciate the input of everyone willing to help but this cannot turn into something that could get it Locked. At this point after reading much debate I may just stick with my original plan and just keep the oem rails and drop my aeromotive 340 pump in. I have a lot of money so far vested in this project and I'm just trying to do thing right this time around... It's a good thing I have a very cool-@ss wife that loves the car as much as I do because if she wasn't I might have to apply at gtm for a job... lol

Chuck33079 · 02-06-2014, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmogirl

Let me point out the reason I started this thread was to get feedback from others who have (been there and done that) and know what works and what doesn't. That being said I appreciate the input of everyone willing to help but this cannot turn into something that could get it Locked. At this point after reading much debate I may just stick with my original plan and just keep the oem rails and drop my aeromotive 340 pump in. I have a lot of money so far vested in this project and I'm just trying to do thing right this time around... It's a good thing I have a very cool-@ss wife that loves the car as much as I do because if she wasn't I might have to apply at gtm for a job... lol

If the price is right, is there a way to retrofit a damper onto the GTM rails?

phunk · 02-06-2014, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

If the price is right, is there a way to retrofit a damper onto the GTM rails?

We tried to find an easy way to do that with our previous rails rather than having to make new ones. We found some aftermarket dampers that were large and clunky, had to run remote hoses to them. Overall it was messy. It forced us to have to create a masterpiece.

COSMO · 02-06-2014, 04:02 PM

Just a follow up, I spoke with Charles at cjm and he comfirmed my stock fuel rails would be fine for my specific power goals and my aeromotive 340 fuel pump. To me that shows a lot because he did not push his fuel system at all and was honest about what he knows to be true with his years of experience..

G37sHKS · 02-06-2014, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phunk

We tried to find an easy way to do that with our previous rails rather than having to make new ones. We found some aftermarket dampers that were large and clunky, had to run remote hoses to them. Overall it was messy. It forced us to have to create a masterpiece.

elperuano · 02-06-2014, 04:56 PM

Good luck Cosmo! Definitely following this thread as I'm going this route also with the same TT kit. Looking forward to see how the VSR block holds up!

Chuck33079 · 02-06-2014, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elperuano

Good luck Cosmo! Definitely following this thread as I'm going this route also with the same TT kit.

By choice or necessity?

02-06-2014, 02:33 PM	#272 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	I did say why there are plenty of guys running no dampers with NO issues. My point return u dont need them but hey hug those nuts bro just dont tell people they need to spend money on ** with little to no gains Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST** Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

02-06-2014, 02:35 PM	#273 (permalink)
COSMO A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: FL Posts: 1,816 Drives: 2012 Touring GTM TT Rep Power: 19	Alright guys lets not have this thread Locked so that others may use this as a guide... Chuck33079 likes this.

02-06-2014, 02:40 PM	#274 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	Ok back on topic yeah cosmo ur gonna need a few pieces to get that kit to work both companies sell them. Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

02-06-2014, 02:42 PM	#275 (permalink)
phunk A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Chicago Posts: 3,668 Drives: 370 Rep Power: 974723	I have sold more fuel rails for the VQ than any manufacturer, guaranteed. Several hundreds of sets. I have more user and tuner feedback than anyone on the matter. No engine NEEDS dampers. But there are side effects to removing, and the VQ is very sensitive to it. You run into lean spots than cannot be tuned out. Many DE cars were suffering adverse side effects from removing them, and customers REQUESTED that we make a new rail with dampers. We did as requested, and even offered a several month long exchange program to swap out rails for customers experiencing the side effects. We gave out TONS of rails at hardly over our cost of time and material in exchange for the old rails back to mostly destroy to keep the used fuel rail market from flooding and halting our normal sales. There are long threads on the issue on the 350z forum, including a member showing datalogs going from no dampers, to 1, to 2, and eventually to 3. My personal 370z running the a prototype fuel system configuration where I removed just 1 of the 3 dampers already developed a lean hesitation at 3100rpm. Not all cars will experience it on a level that is noticeable to the driver. Datalogs will show it on any car with them removed. I have never found the ryhme or reason that determines which cars suffer and which dont. We had customers experience it with different regulators, different pumps, and all various injectors. We had so many customers that DID experience, that it was foolish to continue production of rails that do not have them, when we can just simply prevent the problem from occurring for everyone. The problem will easily be brushed off by many as a tuning quirk or side effect of a highly modified vehicle. But it is actually completely correctable. Personally, I dont care one way or another which system cosmo buys. SOMEONE is going to buy this used GTM system, which is one less sale of my system. So... makes no difference who buys it. I actually sort of hope cosmo does... cause he seems like the type that will speak his mind. Now that I am calling attention to the side effects he is going to see, he can simply see them for himself, and later on I will just sell him some rails that can swap right in and fix the problem. Its a win for all of us! ~2400rpm, ~3100rpm : Pay attention to how the car drives at part throttle light acceleration through these RPM ranges after you install the system. esfourteen, GaleForce, elperuano and 3 others like this. __________________ Charles @ CJ Motorsports : Website \| Facebook \| Instagram \| YouTube Home of the 9 second, stock longblock, stock drivetrain 6MT 370z. 9.91 @ 142mph Last edited by phunk; 02-06-2014 at 08:06 PM.

02-06-2014, 02:56 PM	#279 (permalink)
COSMO A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: FL Posts: 1,816 Drives: 2012 Touring GTM TT Rep Power: 19	Let me point out the reason I started this thread was to get feedback from others who have (been there and done that) and know what works and what doesn't. That being said I appreciate the input of everyone willing to help but this cannot turn into something that could get it Locked. At this point after reading much debate I may just stick with my original plan and just keep the oem rails and drop my aeromotive 340 pump in. I have a lot of money so far vested in this project and I'm just trying to do thing right this time around... It's a good thing I have a very cool-@ss wife that loves the car as much as I do because if she wasn't I might have to apply at gtm for a job... lol esfourteen and elperuano like this.

02-06-2014, 04:02 PM	#282 (permalink)
COSMO A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: FL Posts: 1,816 Drives: 2012 Touring GTM TT Rep Power: 19	Just a follow up, I spoke with Charles at cjm and he comfirmed my stock fuel rails would be fine for my specific power goals and my aeromotive 340 fuel pump. To me that shows a lot because he did not push his fuel system at all and was honest about what he knows to be true with his years of experience.. OMGWTFBBQ, Nixlimited, GaleForce and 3 others like this.

02-06-2014, 04:56 PM	#284 (permalink)
elperuano A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Southwest FL Posts: 1,374 Drives: G37S Rep Power: 29	Good luck Cosmo! Definitely following this thread as I'm going this route also with the same TT kit. Looking forward to see how the VSR block holds up! COSMO likes this.

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