Nissan 370Z Forum
Page 2 of 6 1 2 34 Last »
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

Nissan 370Z Forum (http://www.the370z.com/)
-   Forced Induction (http://www.the370z.com/forced-induction/)
-   -   Stillen SC - put on your seat belts (http://www.the370z.com/forced-induction/82214-stillen-sc-put-your-seat-belts.html)

theDreamer 11-18-2013 12:33 PM
To try to keep this from boiling over.
People are not saying the Stillen kit is bad, just that it lacks certain aspects that the GTM kit is better at. Some of which people like, such as growth potential, TQ, cleaner designer, and I am sure there are some other points.

You're initial post came off a bit harsh, you wanted to put the all Stillen bashers to rest. Yes, we are all looking for people to be innovative and creative to achieve a new level on something, but do it with some respect to others. Many have tried to improve on the Stillen kit and have done fairly well but at the same time others have found the wall and realized it was not worth it to continue.

Chuck33079 11-18-2013 12:35 PM
If you want it to be reliable, get a custom tune and keep everything cool. Oil cooler, radiator, bigger heat exchanger for the intercooler. Maybe meth. You're in a hot climate. Dont go chasing a hp number.

Shamrock 11-18-2013 12:41 PM
A bigger radiator?

thanks :)
Bart

elperuano 11-18-2013 12:42 PM
I haven't seen anyone modify a GTM kit.....

dreamer said it best. That's the best way to go about it.

Chuck33079 11-18-2013 12:44 PM
A bigger radiator, an oil cooler and a bigger intercooler/heat exchanger would be very helpful in keeping temps down. Maybe upgraded radiator fans. Meth injection would help keep the intake charge cool. Maybe look into a vented hood. You're in a hot climate, these cars run hot anyway, and boosting a car adds heat.

JWillis72 11-18-2013 12:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamrock (Post 2573337)
I don't think it's cool that you guys are bashing the stillen kit. As long as the kit is reliable, built well and produces the horsepower that they claim it will then its cool. You guys are also upgrading your GTM kits to get a helluva lot more horsepower. Most of you aren't running standard GTM kits. I don't understand what parts of the stillin kit are not good parts; meaning they would need to be replaced and not just upgraded.

thanks :)
Bart
It seem to me like a lot of people were told by Stillen that they would get 500whp and if I was expecting that I would be pissed I didn't get it. They told me 400-450whp and I got that. Make sure you have a good tuner! Their tune sucked!

theDreamer 11-18-2013 12:45 PM
Yes, take a look at CSF or GTM radiator options.

Besides the kit itself and a solid tune, the next step to focus on is the supporting mods around the engine. Such as:
-Larger radiator: CSF or GTM
-Radiator fan: GTM makes a kit which pairs with their & CSF radiator, other option is to buy it in pieces
-Oil cooler: Plenty to choose, 25 row or larger would be ideal
-Venting: Hood is solid upgrade to remove heat, fender liner vents
-Oil pan spacer or larger oil pan: Both increases oil capacity while also helping with cooling
-Zspeed undertray: Good safety upgrade to protect the oil pan area plus extra venting to improve cooling
-Transmission upgrades: You seem to be good on this with your cooler & VB upgrade

These are what people are upgrading, not really the kit itself, but engine supporting mods. These will allow the kit to run more efficiently, remember shoving more cold air in is good but you also have to release potential hot air that can sit stagnant in the engine bay.

Chuck33079 11-18-2013 12:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWillis72 (Post 2573371)
Make sure you have a good tuner! Their tune sucked!
This is the most important part. If you do not have someone local to you who knows how to tune one of these, abort now before money changes hands or you will be unhappy and poorer.

Shamrock 11-18-2013 12:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck33079 (Post 2573370)
A bigger radiator, an oil cooler and a bigger intercooler/heat exchanger would be very helpful in keeping temps down. Maybe upgraded radiator fans. Meth injection would help keep the intake charge cool. Maybe look into a vented hood. You're in a hot climate, these cars run hot anyway, and boosting a car adds heat.
So these things you speak of are necessary even if I run the stillen kit stock? Forgive my ignorance but does the GTM kids run cooler? The GTM kit does not need these upgrades? All these questions are to help prevent future damage which like everything here cost a ###load

thanks :)
Bart

Chuck33079 11-18-2013 12:53 PM
No, any aftermarket kit you buy is going to require you to spend at least half the cost of the kit in supporting upgrades. No kit comes with all of the supporting mods you need. You can skip them, but you will have a bad time. The GTM kits run much cooler since the intercooler is air-to-air and isn't undersized like the water-to-air unit Stillen uses. Also, MAF location with the Stillen leads it to run hotter than GTM.

Bottom line is you should expect to spend another $2-3k USD plus whatever fees and duty you have to pay regardless of which kit you buy.

theDreamer 11-18-2013 12:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamrock (Post 2573380)
So these things you speak of are necessary even if I run the stillen kit stock? Forgive my ignorance but does the GTM kids run cooler? The GTM kit does not need these upgrades? All these questions are to help prevent future damage which like everything here cost a ###load

thanks :)
Bart
No, no kit "requires" any of this but doing so is more of an opportunity cost.
Spend a little extra now, for you a bit more because of fees & such, but save yourself in the long run. Protecting the engine is key when throwing on this much extra power, heat, and more. Investing a few extra grand now to save your engine in the long run is a much better idea than not spending it now and messing up your engine and dropping 4-5x that much to get it fixed.

On the things listed you can sort of pick/choose how you want to do it.
If you upgrade the radiator consider the fans with it because it all comes out and saves you labor and time. For other items compare and contrast price, install labor, etc and see what you want to do.
Oil cooler I will say is a requirement on this car, even bone stock it runs hot.

Shamrock 11-18-2013 01:01 PM
You guys have been great so far with answering the questions. I really appreciate it. Let's just say I was to install the kit as is. I ordered from gtm the larger oil pan and baffler. I could put another fan in front of the radiator as my friend did. In the summertime driving my car very hard with the stillen oil cooler I have never seen temps rising higher than about 95 degrees Celsius. In the winter time here they barely reach 85. Are these engine mods that you speak of something that I could get on a need to use basis? In other words if I'm driving my car and I see that my temps are staying low within the 100 degrees Celsius range than everything is cool; or is it not?

thanks :)
Bart

theDreamer 11-18-2013 01:04 PM
Many of the supporting mods can be done as needed, the only negative is redundant cost overtime.
If I throw the car up on the rack to have a new radiator put in, and then down the road I want new fans put in, I spent twice the labor for them to work on essential the same thing. But at the same time, some items can be done whenever you want. So say you put on a new hood, this is by itself, does not really require any other piece to be upgraded down the road with it (other than prep/paint if required).

My suggestion, lay out your plan, make some budgets, and see what you want now and what you will want in the future. If you know you will want some other items and labor cost will be cheaper doing it all now, maybe wait a few months to gather/save for more parts and do it all at once.

Chuck33079 11-18-2013 01:04 PM
These cars run uncomfortably high oil temps stock. You need an oil cooler. Period. The oil pan wil help with the increased capacity, but it is not a replacement for the cooler. You should do the radiator and fans at the same time as the kit. If you can't do it at the same time as the kit, you should not install the kit until you get all the supporting mods you need.

Shamrock 11-18-2013 01:09 PM
I have the oil cooler. Its already on the car. My question is if I'm driving the car and the car stays within normal temps does that mean that everything is OK. I don't track the car. Haha no tracks here.

thanks :)
Bart

Shamrock 11-18-2013 01:14 PM
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/19/yzyqysy5.jpg it's 20 degrees Celsius here and I've been driving my car pretty hard. The stillen cooler so far has done its job

thanks :)
Bart

theDreamer 11-18-2013 01:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamrock (Post 2573413)
I have the oil cooler. Its already on the car. My question is if I'm driving the car and the car stays within normal temps does that mean that everything is OK. I don't track the car. Haha no tracks here.

thanks :)
Bart
Temps are just one of the things to look at.
With adding boost you will want to monitor the following things if you can:
-Water temp
-Intake temp
-AFR
-Boost/PSI
-Oil temp
-Oil pressure

Those are a general few things to keep an eye on to monitor your engine. If oil temps & water temps seem to be good then you are running fairly well temp wise, but at the same time you need to be look at AFR/Boost to make sure the kit and engine are outputting power correctly without harm to the engine.

Chuck33079 11-18-2013 01:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamrock (Post 2573413)
I have the oil cooler. Its already on the car. My question is if I'm driving the car and the car stays within normal temps does that mean that everything is OK. I don't track the car. Haha no tracks here.

thanks :)
Bart
Within a few pulls your temps are going to go up dramatically and come back down very slowly. The cooling system is barely adequate for the car stock. You're putting a heat exchanger in front of the radiator so instead of cool air passing over the oil cooler and radiator, it now gets warm air. Your oem cooling system will be performing worse than when it was stock. Sure, if you don't see any temp issues you can skip the cooling mods. My guess is that you'll be ordering them the week you get the car back from the shop.

JWillis72 11-18-2013 01:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck33079 (Post 2573419)
Within a few pulls your temps are going to go up dramatically and come back down very slowly. The cooling system is barely adequate for the car stock. You're putting a heat exchanger in front of the radiator so instead of cool air passing over the oil cooler and radiator, it now gets warm air. Your oem cooling system will be performing worse than when it was stock. Sure, if you don't see any temp issues you can skip the cooling mods. My guess is that you'll be ordering them the week you get the car back from the shop.
Chuck, what kind of temps were you seeing? My car stays around 180 and when I have been pushing it I see 200, were you seeing higher than that?

Chuck33079 11-18-2013 01:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWillis72 (Post 2573428)
Chuck, what kind of temps were you seeing? My car stays around 180 and when I have been pushing it I see 200, were you seeing higher than that?
Oil or water? My oil temps are rock solid, it's the water temps that fluctuate in the summer.

JWillis72 11-18-2013 01:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck33079 (Post 2573430)
Oil or water? My oil temps are rock solid, it's the water temps that fluctuate in the summer.
Oil. I don't have a temp gauge yet for water. Gauges are driving me insane right now:icon14:

Chuck33079 11-18-2013 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWillis72 (Post 2573434)
Oil. I don't have a temp gauge yet for water. Gauges are driving me insane right now:icon14:
In the summer in Houston, you'll see the water temps move 2-3 dots if you're stuck in traffic. That's even with an upgraded radiator. The OP is in Israel, so he's got even more heat to deal with.

JWillis72 11-18-2013 01:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck33079 (Post 2573436)
In the summer in Houston, you'll see the water temps move 2-3 dots if you're stuck in traffic. That's even with an upgraded radiator. The OP is in Israel, so he's got even more heat to deal with.
Good point. Do you use water wetter?

Chuck33079 11-18-2013 01:27 PM
Yep. I need to drain the whole system and use less antifreeze. I'll grab the GTM fans and hopefully vent the hood before next summer.

JWillis72 11-18-2013 01:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck33079 (Post 2573439)
Yep. I need to drain the whole system and use less antifreeze. I'll grab the GTM fans and hopefully vent the hood before next summer.
We don't get cold enough to freeze here so I run water wetter and water only.

1slow370 11-18-2013 01:37 PM
Yeah the worst things about the stillen kit are going to be in order 1. Tune 2. Manifold/intercooler setup 3.intake/MAF sensor piping 4. Restictive offset coupler on supercharger inlet

edit: after that its just that the headunit is to small to hit 650hp on the air hungry vhr

Shamrock 11-18-2013 01:37 PM
So I can assume you guys have afr gauges and boost gauges?

thanks :)
Bart

Shamrock 11-18-2013 01:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1slow370 (Post 2573447)
Yeah the worst things about the stillen kit are going to be in order 1. Tune 2. Manifold/intercooler setup 3.intake/MAF sensor piping 4. Restictive offset coupler on supercharger inlet
Can you explain your 4 in layman's terms? Number 1 is obvious. Could you also go how I would correct this?

thanks :)
Bart

DEpointfive0 11-18-2013 01:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamrock (Post 2573162)
I want you guys to realize that things here are very expensive (off the charts) because of customs tax.
( Click to show/hide )
My car cost me 105,000 dollars. Just to get the standard Stillen/GTM kit here would be around 13,000 dollars. My friend who posted here 530 or so WHP paid these amounts for his kit (GTM). The short is that someone bought the Stillen kit and decided not to install it. He is willing to sell it to me for about 5500 dollars. That's cheap for here; very cheap. I know that the kit won't make the same HP as the GTM; although, I am not really sure why (not technical at all.) I just know how to drive. What would you guys do? Either no kit (can't afford GTM here), or get the Stillen?
I think I was misunderstood in my original post. My intentions now are to install the kit as is and with a proper tune get the max HP out of it. You must realize that because of the prices here car upgrades are a very grey area. Almost everyone in the states knows the basics such as how to change the oil or small repairs. Here it's the exact opposite. As to the guy that said that I didn't do research; well I did and my pockets aren't deep enough for the GTM (13000 dollars.) What I would like to know from the forum members is what realistic HP I'll be gaining with a custom tune and whether the Stillen kit is a good and reliable kit for what it is. If anyone says anything different then maybe I'll say "screw the kit" and I'll continue stock. The most important thing for me is reliability; meaning a daily driver with almost no hiccups.
Thanks
There we go. NOW it makes sense brother. If I could get a Stillen kit for half, you're god damn right I would.

Just get an extra oil cooler and keep it as cool as possible




Btw, if you want to get around customs, have the shipper put "Free of charge warranty repair" on the box or "Free repair for customer"
Gotten out of paying tax many times using that method ;-)

JWillis72 11-18-2013 01:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamrock (Post 2573448)
So I can assume you guys have afr gauges and boost gauges?

thanks :)
Bart
I don't but am trying to figure out where to add them.

SS_Firehawk 11-18-2013 01:49 PM
Living in similar temps as you, I spent about $4300 in cooling alone, not including methanol injection. This included the GTM radiator, shroud and fan upgrade, baffled oil pan, and two 19 row oil coolers with labor factored in.. a methonol injection kit is very optional. You can use it to cool your intake charge as well as tune for some extra power. It's not cheap though and the Stillen kit won't be pushing big numbers like the GTM kits.

Of all the things that is recommended, the radiator is your weak link since you have an oil cooler. We aren't saying you have to buy GTMs, (it's by far the best) but at a minimum, spending $600 for a CSF radiator. is a very good idea.

I have not had the chance to log my water temps, but even with two 19 row oil coolers, my temps have climbed up to 105℃ and that was just driving hard on the street or dyno.

Chuck33079 11-18-2013 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWillis72 (Post 2573458)
I don't but am trying to figure out where to add them.
Mine are on the A-pillar. I didn't feel like ripping out the dash to replace the OEM gauges.

Shamrock 11-18-2013 01:55 PM
What temperature okay? Does anyone have an AFR or boost gauge

thanks :)
Bart

Shamrock 11-18-2013 01:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck33079 (Post 2573466)
Mine are on the A-pillar. I didn't feel like ripping out the dash to replace the OEM gauges.
What gauges you got?

thanks :)
Bart

Chuck33079 11-18-2013 01:57 PM
Defi boost and innovate AFR. That's all you "need", but I still want a few more for piece of mind.

Shamrock 11-18-2013 02:01 PM
Could you recommend any gauges chuck

thanks :)
Bart

Chuck33079 11-18-2013 02:03 PM
Defi boost and Innovate AFR are working fine for me.

Shamrock 11-18-2013 02:14 PM
Oh you mean boost by defi and afr by innovate

thanks :)
Bart

Chuck33079 11-18-2013 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamrock (Post 2573511)
Oh you mean boost by defi and afr by innovate

thanks :)
Bart
Correct, but any name brand will do. Personally I'd stay away from "budget" lines like Prosport and Glowshift.

future370zzz 11-18-2013 03:05 PM
For 7AT, a transmission temp gauge is recommended. High trans temp will shorten the life of your transmission. GTM wrote a report on it.

I am going Stillen also and will be installing a PLX digital multi gauge in the Clock gauge location. It will let me monitor everything on the car with just one gauge.

Will probably go to a vented hood for the California summers first. Still on the fence about the upgraded heat exchanger vs custom intercooler setup.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:59 PM.
Page 2 of 6 1 2 34 Last »
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2