CARB interest poll
 

Just curious how many members are interested in more CARB approved forced induction options and if you're in California or not.
I ask because I get the impression I'm the only one not in California that wants more CARB approved forced induction options.

I live in Cali and still don't care about CARB approved things :tup: LOL

What's the premium?
$100, no problem, $500, ehhhhhh... On the FI kit, not that much of a total cost increase, on the GTM kit it's 10%, so I see that as more of a turn off.

Honestly, it's nice to be CARB approved just in case a cop hassles you, or asks to pop the hood, or you get screwed with a sniffer test, but I live in CA, I I went FI, I wouldn't give two, or one, or even a tenth of a shìt if your worry is smog testing, when that day comes, pay someone $150, done.

Actually, ive never owned a car that passes smog :rofl2: $150 sounds about right lol

You are. Thank your lucky stars you don't have to deal with that hassle. There is NO benefit for anyone not in CA to be CARB legal.

Ha, I guess I forget to include that option in the poll. My mistake...

Wait a minute, there's a CARB approved GTM FI kit?

I think you're right and that's the impression I've gotten with regards to being interested in CARB options outside of CA. But, I disagree there's NO benefit for anyone not in CA to be CARB legal. Having a CARB sticker makes emissions testing easier and you'll pretty much never get hassled by the cops regardless of what state you're in. Maybe I should do some more research but that's my current opinion anyways.

Nobody outside of CA is going to give the sticker a second thought. CARB approval doesn't mean better, it just means somebody jumped through the hoops to get approval.

Not that you'll care about my states laws but this is what I'm confused on.

RCW 46.16A.060
Registration — Emission control inspections required — Exemptions — Educational information — Rules.


(1) The department, county auditor or other agent, or subagent appointed by the director may not issue or renew a motor vehicle registration or change the registered owner of a registered vehicle for any motor vehicle required to be inspected under chapter 70.120 RCW, unless the application for issuance or renewal is: (a) Accompanied by a valid certificate of compliance or a valid certificate of acceptance issued as required under chapter 70.120 RCW; or (b) exempt, as described in subsection (2) of this section. The certificates must have a date of validation that is within twelve months of the assigned registration renewal date. Certificates for fleet or owner tested diesel vehicles may have a date of validation that is within twelve months of the assigned registration renewal date.

(2) The following motor vehicles are exempt from emission test requirements:

(a) Motor vehicles that are less than five years old or more than twenty-five years old;

(b) Motor vehicles that are a 2009 model year or newer;

(c) Motor vehicles powered exclusively by electricity, propane, compressed natural gas, or liquid petroleum gas;

(d) Motorcycles as defined in RCW 46.04.330 and motor-driven cycles as defined in RCW 46.04.332;

(e) Farm vehicles as defined in RCW 46.04.181;

(f) Street rod vehicles as defined in RCW 46.04.572 and custom vehicles as defined in RCW 46.04.161;

(g) Used vehicles that are offered for sale by a motor vehicle dealer licensed under chapter 46.70 RCW;

(h) Classes of motor vehicles exempted by the director of the department of ecology; and

(i) Hybrid motor vehicles that obtain a rating by the environmental protection agency of at least fifty miles per gallon of gas during city driving. For purposes of this section, a hybrid motor vehicle is one that uses propulsion units powered by both electricity and gas.

(3) The department of ecology shall provide information to motor vehicle owners:

(a) Regarding the boundaries of emission contributing areas and restrictions established under this section that apply to vehicles registered in such areas; and

(b) On the relationship between motor vehicles and air pollution and steps motor vehicle owners should take to reduce motor vehicle related air pollution.

(4) The department of licensing shall:

(a) Notify all registered motor vehicle owners affected by the emission testing program that they must have an emission test to renew their registration;

(b) Adopt rules implementing and enforcing this section, except for subsection (2)(e) of this section, as specified in chapter 34.05 RCW.

(5) A motor vehicle may not be registered, leased, rented, or sold for use in the state, starting with the model year as provided in RCW 70.120A.010, unless the vehicle:

(a) Has seven thousand five hundred miles or more; or

(b)(i) Is consistent with the vehicle emission standards and carbon dioxide equivalent emission standards adopted by the department of ecology; and

(ii) Has a California certification label for all emission standards, and carbon dioxide equivalent emission standards necessary to meet fleet average requirements.

(6) The department of licensing, in consultation with the department of ecology, may adopt rules necessary to implement this section and may provide for reasonable exemptions to these requirements. The department of ecology may exempt public safety vehicles from meeting the standards where the department finds that vehicles necessary to meet the needs of public safety agencies are not otherwise reasonably available.

Does that mean every time I register my car I have to meet the standards the car was certified on (CARB or whatever)? Meaning not modify anything, etc? Regardless that is a law not in California that references California emission certification. If I'm missing something please feel free to correct me.

It seems to mean that as long as the car was originally compliant with CA laws in order to be sold, you're ok.

What about when I get new tags every year? Is that not registering your car? I mean when I get pulled over the officer asks for my registration and I give him what they gave me when I got new tags...

Technically, yes. Most states will allow you to renew by mail, so no worries there. It's the inspection you've got to pay attention to. If all you have to do is present a car with no active or pending cels, you're good to go. A tune will disable them. If its a sniffer test you can usually get by with HFCs, but there's no guarantee. The rule you referenced seemed to be aimed at dealer sales, not annual re registration.

Nope, but if their kit is $5000, and the cost per kit is $500 extra, that's an extra 10% in the price of the kit.

Darli328, what I'm pretty sure they mean is that the car was sold in CA at some point.

And OP, CARB is California Air Research Board, it doesn't help a damn person outside CA.

I see what you mean but in my case I don't want to just get away with something. I want to know I'm 100% legal.

Thanks, never really looked at it with the intent that it's meant for dealers. But, when I see the words registered, emissions, and California all in the same section I get confused on what I can and can't do legally. Same with department of ecology and EPA laws...

You're not "getting away" with something. You're compliant under the regulations.

"Technically, yes. Most states will allow you to renew by mail, so no worries there. It's the inspection you've got to pay attention to. If all you have to do is present a car with no active or pending cels, you're good to go. A tune will disable them. If its a sniffer test you can usually get by with HFCs, but there's no guarantee. The rule you referenced seemed to be aimed at dealer sales, not annual re registration."

How is getting a tune to disable codes and installing HFCs (when some states don't allow you to modify the emission system) legal?

Because all you're legally required to do is present a car with no codes. That's all. You're over thinking this.

No prob, I would like to know what's in that section number, maybe will make it easier.
I think a few states, yours, and probably MA, use CA standards for smog because CA has the biggest Nazis in terms of emissions standards

Yep. As long as the car is 50 state legal to sell, they can sell it. CARB is a totally different animal that has zero applicability beyond CA's borders. OP, don't let CARB approval be a determining factor in whether you boost the car or not.

I'm in South AR where, if we have any auto pollution laws, they aren't enforced, so it doesn't matter to me. :)

The only reason I can think of to get CARB certification is if you live in CA or think you might eventually sell you car to someone that does. Nice to have but I gotta agree with Chuck33079 - it shouldn't be a deal-breaker if it's not certified.

Maybe GTM should contract with Stillen to get the GTM kit through CARB certification.

Why?
The CARB approval process seems to be one big cluster f*ck from what I have seen, even looking at other platforms. GTM could be doing everything but if Cali is just taking their time, then there is nothing more they can do.

Also remember the Stillen tune that was 'approved' for CARB was complete sh1t. From reports on here people who ran it always had problems and had to jump ship to a custom tune just to run the car.

This. People seem quick to blame GTM for holdups. They're dealing with the government.

Blame "the government" maybe made sense 2 year ago. After 3 years, there is 1 place to put the blame, right at GTM's feet. Lack of experience in the process, which they have admitted, combined with placing this at the lowest of priorities is the reason there isn't an approved kit in May of 2013. Go back and find their original announcement that they were making a CARB certified kit and count the months. Then apply some common sense.

:facepalm:
Guess what I have kept up with it, and how do you know it is GTM? You are just basing on the fact that Stillen got their SC kit approved. But again, that was with a sh*tty tune. What if GTM is trying to make a good tune pass inspection that actually works?

CARB approval is known to be corrupt and worthless, do some research on it and how bad it is.

They made the mistake of taking a car without enough miles on it and failed certification. This was posted by Sam or Mike. Then they decided to find an M37 to get tested on since it was the heavest of the "37" platforms, if it passed, they would all pass. I have that info straight from Mike. That was a long time ago though, so no idea what they took to get tested this time.

This is all business 101. The demand is low. There is competition, but the offering is inferior. They have correctly calculated that most of their Califorina customers will just buy their kit anyway and take the chance with the inspection process or will place the blame on "the process". I'm a realist and I'm patient. I have not purchased any kit waiting on the GTM kit to finally be CARB certified.

What is the standard turn around time for CARB approval? I'd assume it's not handled immediately upon application.

I think you and I are on the same page and want the same answers. Nice to know I'm not alone in this. But, I did want to say my intent when creating this thread/poll was to see how much interest there was in more FI CARB options and not put any blame anywhere.

I'm sure you're right that it's not handled immediately by "the government." But, I would use commen sense/assume that 3 years is not the standard turn around time either... Just a thought...

PM from 12-28-2011 from Mike. Red emphasis added by me. I can only assume from that information that testing is a few month process, not few years process.

I'm sure you're right, but there's just no way to determine how much of the blame for delay goes where. It's pretty much irrelevant, as the kit will be done whenever it gets done. I agree that they could be a lot more transparent in the process of getting their kit certified. That would ease more than a few people's minds.

I hear ya there, and I guess there are just a lot of people that would like more transparency with the kit in question. Myself included which I'm sure is no secret by now.

I've said it before and I will say it again. I don't give a **** about the California Air Resource Board or the planet. Anybody who cares about the planet is a ******* idiot. Matter of fact, I'm going to give my car some nice extra revs with my test pipes driving home tonight. I hope a ******* a tree is right by the exhaust and it dies.

I'm sure you're not then only one... If I had to guess some people just don't want to break any laws and couldn't care less otherwise.

True. Although, I may go back to to stock cats because I can't stand the VQ hiss. But as far as CARB is concerned, I think CARB certified aftermarket kits would definitely be a good idea for people who can't just pay someone to pass their smog test.

That's where I'm at. Especially if one moves around a lot.

Paying someone off to pass smog is rare now since they cracked down on this with undercover stings and revoking smog tester licenses. Please PM me if you have a SMOG hookup.

This is pushing me toward Stillen but with the issues with this kit and the lack of power its a deal killer. Another option is getting the Stage 0 GTM supercharger or turbo kit when CARB approved for a carb sticker and converting to a higher stage until the time comes for smog and then return to Stage 0 to pass and then back to desired stage. The last option is uninstalling/installing a FI system every two years.

the way i have been looking at it recently is who is going to have more fun?

the guy who makes better numbers but has to drive like a grandma on the streets because a cop might hear the BOV on their TT370z and give you a ref ticket, or the guy who isnt making as much power but is able to push his car to the limit every day of the week and doesn't have to worry about failing smog checks

i personally am the latter so for me to go FI on my car, its going to have to be legal so if i suddenly decide to push the car, i dont have to worry about paying too much out of my *** when i get pulled over(imagine how much its gonna cost to rip off a TT kit, put everything back to stock, have the ref inspect it, then put everything back on, that alone isnt worth the trouble imo)


dude i dont know if you got to check out the stillen 370z but if you get the chance to i would do it, i drove up to coasta mesa from north SD just to check it out and when i went for a ride along, man it sure didnt feel like it was lacking any power, now I imagine thats because their place is near sea level so it is probably making the advertised 412whp on their tune with their carb approved kit, plus i imagine you would also make more power assuming you live near sea level, I would just swap the pulley, impeller and bpv and custom tune it and call it a day, at sea level that should be an easy 500whp


imho though, its not all about the numbers, plus with the kit being street legal, you dont have to pay for fake smogs and worry about getting ref tickets

I love living in Florida. TT, open dumps, 3" exhaust. No problems whatsoever.

You lose the CARB approval when you start swapping out the kit's componants. Ain't nothing easy about getting 500whp out of the Stillen kit. Many have tried.