GTM Performance Engineering: MHI Twin Turbo Official Release

Alkatraz · 10-04-2013, 04:38 AM

Wow! That was certainly mixed news! Terrible news about Sam but glad to hear that he will be ok. Fantastic news about the Garrett's! Looks like I will be doing some reading and research tonight

Big props to GTM for coming through for their customers. It looks like the delays will be worth it in the end and that this kit will now completely blow everything else out of the water on a cost/benefit basis!

Please pass my regards onto Sam from 'down unda'!

Dzel · 10-04-2013, 07:03 AM

So the mitsu can provide more power but the Garretts are less reliable but have less turbo lag am I on par so far?

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SPOHN · 10-04-2013, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzel

So the mitsu can provide more power but the Garretts are less reliable but have less turbo lag am I on par so far?

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Garrett's are more reliable, Spool easier, and responded better.

m3chhawk · 10-04-2013, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzel

So the mitsu can provide more power but the Garretts are less reliable but have less turbo lag am I on par so far?

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Jayhovah · 10-04-2013, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPOHN

And for the two guys that asked about the Garrett turbo oil return line. No you will not have to tap the upper oil pan. We will still be using the GTM oil baffle pan for our source of return.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAM@GTM

Yes, it is possible and will be available for sale separately. You can mount the pan with the Garrett kit to get more volume. However, we don't recommend using the returns on the oil pan with the Garrett kit since the Garrett turbos are a lot more sensitive to oil return line. We have extensive experience with Garrett turbos and even per Garrett's recommendation, the oil return needs to be above the oil level.

Bear in mind that we didn't wait until now to do an oil pan out of laziness or to make installing the original turbo kit harder. There is a technical reason for requiring drilling of the upper pan for the oil returns on the Garrett kits. Putting the oil return in the lower pan drastically increases the chances of developing a smoking issue. Basically, the oil will go out the turbine shaft seal into the exhaust instead of into the pan. Keep in mind that ball bearing turbos require just a fine mist of oil to lubricate the bearings and when it comes out of the bearing section that is spinning at 50,000 - 130,000 rpm, it is very frothy and does not flow very well compared to liquid oil. This is why the return needs to be above the oil level: to give the return oil enough room to flow out of the line and calm down.

This is not an issue with the Mitsubishi journal bearing turbos since they require much higher oil volume and pressure to support the journal bearing riding on a film of oil. That is why we can use the oil pan on this kit.

Sam

This is where I saw it.. (Post 712 of this thread).

Are you sure SPOHN? Not trying to start an argument just genuinely curious what may have changed.

Maybe the mounting position of the Garrett's with the new manifolds holds them high enough?

Edit: For clarity, worth mentioning that the post quoted from Sam was about using the new oil pan with the Garrett kit, not using the Garrett turbos in the MHI kit. Also that post is more than 4 months old, so any number of things could have changed ranging from equipment design to GTM's understanding of the hardware.

Dzel · 10-04-2013, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPOHN

Garrett's are more reliable, Spool easier, and responded better.

Where did you get this info from? Dsmtuner.com, brickboard.com and a few others say different. I don't have any turbo experience so excuse the noob questions

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Sh0velMan · 10-04-2013, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzel

Where did you get this info from? Dsmtuner.com, brickboard.com and a few others say different. I don't have any turbo experience so excuse the noob questions

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Not all Garrett's are BB. They've made plenty of journal bearing shitbox turbos just like every other company out there. The GTM kit uses their top of the range GTX line.

puckshaw · 10-04-2013, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike@GTM

UPDATE: First off, I apologize for the delay in getting the schedule up on the boards. Sam had to have an emergency brain surgery last Thursday. As some of you know, he had broken his leg a little while back. Unfortunately, a blood clot formed in his leg and traveled up to his brain which caused some serious neurological issues. Last week, his condition worsened and he ended up having to take a ride in the ambulance to the ICU. The surgery was a success and thankfully, Sam is alive and on the road to recovery. While he is healing, he is not able to be here 24/7 like he used to, so please bear with us as Sam gets better and back up to 100%.

Now, for some good news: as a reward for bearing with us for as long as many of you have, we are offering the Garrett ball bearing turbos as a no-cost upgrade to those that want some ball bearing goodness.

Normally, this would be quite a bit more expensive, but we are offering it to those that want to take advantage of it. For comparison purposes, the 16g is comparable to the GT2860RS turbos with a 0.64 A/R turbine housing. The 18g is similar in response to the GT2860RS with the 0.86 A/R turbine housing in terms of response, but the 18g has an advantage in power. That said, the stock engine is realistically only capable of sustaining up to ~630chp for a daily driven application. So, even though the 2860RS turbos with the 0.86 A/R turbine housings are “only” capable of 700chp and the 18g turbos are capable of 800chp, it’s a moot point on a stock engine. Now, if you are going to be running a built engine and want a turbo comparable to the 18g, then Garrett’s GT2871R with the 0.64 A/R turbine housing is the answer. That said, it is a significantly more expensive turbo and we simply cannot offer it as a free upgrade at this price point, but as a $400 upgrade.

We will be posting a schedule as soon as Sam and I have an opportunity to catch up on the expected delivery times from our suppliers.

Wow, glad to hear Sam is ok. I wish him a speedy recovery.

As for the new options, should we call you to get our changes made?

mikey1600 · 10-04-2013, 10:51 AM

as everyone else has said, hopefully Sam recovers well, I've just had my gf in the ICU 2 weeks ago, for 3 days, it's not very nice.

Jayhovah - I'd like to know this as well, we will have to wait for Mike to tune in I'm guessing.

Like you, I'm thinking, if the new oil pan can support the Garrett turbo's, it's a no brainer upgrade, for myself who was probably looking towards DIY route, tapping the block wasn't really something I wanted to do and paying a workshop to do the install will probably set back $2k+ for any workshops around my area to install the turbo kit. Most charge around $100/hour.

Mike - can you chime in and confirm this please? Can we run the Garrett turbo's with the rest of this group buy kit without tapping the block?

Baer383 · 10-04-2013, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baer383

Let me just say if you guys knew why you would feel like azzholes for bitchen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike@GTM

UPDATE: First off, I apologize for the delay in getting the schedule up on the boards. Sam had to have an emergency brain surgery last Thursday. As some of you know, he had broken his leg a little while back. Unfortunately, a blood clot formed in his leg and traveled up to his brain which caused some serious neurological issues. Last week, his condition worsened and he ended up having to take a ride in the ambulance to the ICU. The surgery was a success and thankfully, Sam is alive and on the road to recovery. While he is healing, he is not able to be here 24/7 like he used to, so please bear with us as Sam gets better and back up to 100%.

Now, for some good news: as a reward for bearing with us for as long as many of you have, we are offering the Garrett ball bearing turbos as a no-cost upgrade to those that want some ball bearing goodness.

Normally, this would be quite a bit more expensive, but we are offering it to those that want to take advantage of it. For comparison purposes, the 16g is comparable to the GT2860RS turbos with a 0.64 A/R turbine housing. The 18g is similar in response to the GT2860RS with the 0.86 A/R turbine housing in terms of response, but the 18g has an advantage in power. That said, the stock engine is realistically only capable of sustaining up to ~630chp for a daily driven application. So, even though the 2860RS turbos with the 0.86 A/R turbine housings are “only” capable of 700chp and the 18g turbos are capable of 800chp, it’s a moot point on a stock engine. Now, if you are going to be running a built engine and want a turbo comparable to the 18g, then Garrett’s GT2871R with the 0.64 A/R turbine housing is the answer. That said, it is a significantly more expensive turbo and we simply cannot offer it as a free upgrade at this price point, but as a $400 upgrade.

We will be posting a schedule as soon as Sam and I have an opportunity to catch up on the expected delivery times from our suppliers.

I hope some of you guys feel like azzholes now.

Chuck33079 · 10-04-2013, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baer383

I hope some of you guys feel like azzholes now.

I don't think that's fair. The kit's been delayed well past the original date with no real set timetable for shipping, and there's no mention of any of this until last night other than some vague "I know but I won't tell" posts.

Baer383 · 10-04-2013, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

I don't think that's fair. The kit's been delayed well past the original date with no real set timetable for shipping, and there's no mention of any of this until last night other than some vague "I know but I won't tell" posts.

It is fair,me and Chris (SPOHN),Dzel have been hinting as much as we could b/c we were told not to say anything but most people did not want to listen to 3 established members so yes it is fair!

Chuck33079 · 10-04-2013, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baer383

It is fair me and Chris (SPOHN),Dzel have been hinting as much as we could b/c we were told not to say anything but most people did not want to listen to 3 established members so yes it is fair!

I disagree, but that's the beauty of the Internet.

Baer383 · 10-04-2013, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

I disagree, but that's the beauty of the Internet.

You disagree b/c you weren't in the loop.

Chuck33079 · 10-04-2013, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baer383

You disagree b/c you weren't in the loop.

Only you three seem to have been. I just don't think anyone should feel bad about their impatience. It's completely justified given the big picture. Now that the info is out, everyone has been very supportive of the GTM family. Again, you're entitled to your opinion on this, as am I. Neither of us are even a part of the group anyway.

10-04-2013, 04:38 AM	#1651 (permalink)
Alkatraz Base Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Perth Posts: 215 Drives: 2008 Skyline 370GT Rep Power: 12	Wow! That was certainly mixed news! Terrible news about Sam but glad to hear that he will be ok. Fantastic news about the Garrett's! Looks like I will be doing some reading and research tonight Big props to GTM for coming through for their customers. It looks like the delays will be worth it in the end and that this kit will now completely blow everything else out of the water on a cost/benefit basis! Please pass my regards onto Sam from 'down unda'! Dzel likes this.

10-04-2013, 07:03 AM	#1652 (permalink)
Dzel A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2011 Location: Midland, TX Posts: 3,884 Drives: 11 370Z PW M6 Rep Power: 23	So the mitsu can provide more power but the Garretts are less reliable but have less turbo lag am I on par so far? Sent with TapAhoe now Free __________________ 10secWS6 IF YOU CAN'T SWING IT THEN DON'T BRING IT! Check out Domestic Performance C.C.

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10-04-2013, 10:51 AM	#1659 (permalink)
mikey1600 Track Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 503 Drives: MY11 370z Black Rep Power: 16	as everyone else has said, hopefully Sam recovers well, I've just had my gf in the ICU 2 weeks ago, for 3 days, it's not very nice. Jayhovah - I'd like to know this as well, we will have to wait for Mike to tune in I'm guessing. Like you, I'm thinking, if the new oil pan can support the Garrett turbo's, it's a no brainer upgrade, for myself who was probably looking towards DIY route, tapping the block wasn't really something I wanted to do and paying a workshop to do the install will probably set back $2k+ for any workshops around my area to install the turbo kit. Most charge around $100/hour. Mike - can you chime in and confirm this please? Can we run the Garrett turbo's with the rest of this group buy kit without tapping the block?