TT vs. Single

F.I. Inc.

Mike@GTM...

PM sent!

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Dzel

@ Tony sorry man work has been hectic as I know your probably more busy than I am. I'll give you a call later today.

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Sh0velMan

Snap!

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G37sHKS

Oh shyt

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Sh0velMan

I don't blame him for jumping on the guy tho. FI's manifolds were designed by an engineer they contracted with lots of experience in CAD design of items like turbo manifolds. They didn't copy anyone, it's just not a design goal to make sure their product doesn't vaguely resemble another product on the market, when they're obviously made to perform the same function.

Form does follow function in these matters, after all.

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m3chhawk

Because Mike@GTM says:

I did this:



And zoomed in on the deltas:



So in the absolute best region for the GTM TT, you are talking 150 RPM (200 at best). And this is GTM's latest/greatest for which I haven't even seen pricing or availability and the GTM dyno is with no mufflers.
Top end horsepower isn't all that much of an issue if you aren't building the internals for it. The Boosted kit with a different housing is rated at 700+. I'm willing to bet 98% of every boosted Z will never see those numbers. It's a different conversation.
I won't get into install/cost here, but that's a no brainer.

Dyno charts used:
Boosted Performance single turbo build
GTM Performance Engineering: GTM TD05 16G Test Results 91 Octane 7AT

Sorry for the massive picture sizes, but if I scale them weird things happen to the grid.

SS_Firehawk

that's the cheaper 16G kit. They also make kits using the GT28RS turbo's. Not only that, tunes can be conservative or aggressive. There are no boost pressure numbers either. Biggest takeaway which is already a known... Both give and take. Faster response and spool time for some top end efficiency loss or wait a bit later for full boost and have higher efficiency up top. I'm not taking sides i the argument because I do like the work of all three vendors here, but this was represented poorly.

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m3chhawk

I have the boost vs RPM numbers for Boosted Performance chart, couldn't find them for GTM. I'd be willing to show them in the same context if someone wants to point me in the right direction.

And my point still holds. Sam said a single turbo is too ineffective to be used as a street setup. This proves otherwise (unless their 16G kit is too ineffective to be used as a street setup).

You say cheaper. Show me cost numbers for the two GTM kits (couldn't find those either). The Boosted Performance is well under $8k for everything down to the oil filter and RTV sealant. Sasha is VERY transparent with EVERYTHING so it makes it easier to find.

For what it is worth, the Boosted Performance dyno chart is the base map. The GTM is what is in their thread.

I don't want it to seem like I have a dog in this fight. I'm merely a customer in the market for a forced induction system in the next few months and want to compare what is out there.

SS_Firehawk

I didn't say twins are cheaper. Nothing is cheaper about a twin setup. I'm referring to your graph. It's a nice comparison, but missing key details. This is also GTM's entry level twin turbo option which doesn't have options to grow like their GT28RS kit was designed for.

The twin scroll setup Sasha designed does a really good job mitigating traditional single mid mount turbo deficiencies. I think what he has done is fantastic. I'm not taking anything away from him.

All I'm saying is if your going to compare a single turbo rated for 700bhp, then compare it to twins with the same rating. It will paint a more accurate picture if all facts are included. Also there must be wiggle room in the comparison because of different dyno's, different elevation, and different climate.

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m3chhawk

This isn't the housing rated for 700+ hp. This is his "standard" housing (550ish ballpark).

Yes dynos/climate/tunes all play a part. Hell if I wanted to make a truly fair comparison I would use the dyno sheet from the GTM website instead of one for a kit that hasn't been released to the general public yet.

But none of that pertains to the point of the comparison I made. The point of the comparison was Sam and Mike still to this day are standing by the fact that a single turbo kit isn't suitable for the street (which is why I quoted Sam for context)

Boosted Performance

Just to comment on the response...we were able to make 10psi of boost at 3700rpm (using an EBC). That would be considered as very good for any kit, single or twin considering that you would rev all the way to 7500rpm with these engines. I have not seen any data on this on with the TT kits, so I can't comment on that.

This was with the smallest turbine housing (1.0 a/r) I would use on this platform, for a street driven car. Going up to a 1.15 would slow the spool down just a bit, maybe 200rpm, but it would open up the doors to 600+whp without much effort.

So, in other words, for one to say that something else (different type of kit) that does the same thing on paper is superior to another product is just plain silly.

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SS_Firehawk

10psi @ 3700 is impressive. I think you have the most solid single kit to date. I would most likely choose it over twins because the difference in response is too small to merit the extra expense. Some would say otherwise. I'm just hoping to keep accurate, fair, and impartial results for BP, GTM, and F.I. and their respective turbo kits. To say you all have a fan base is an understatement, so even with this competitive smack talking, obviously your doing something right.

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Boosted Performance

By all means, and if the consumer chooses one kit over another, for whatever reason, by all means go ahead, it is your money.

My beef is in the quote provided above by m3chhawk. Where one manufacturer says that a “single turbo kit is a poor choice” and that a TT kit will have a “boost threshold 1500 – 2500rpm later than twins” not to mention that “The single turbo system has too many compromises to make as effective of a street setup” When clearly not one of those statements is true when comparing real world results. This is why I say you can go all technical on theory and thermal dynamics all day long...but in the end, the results on paper speak the truth.

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DEpointfive0

Sub'd because I love reading these BS "who's got the biggest díck now?" Threads

GaleForce

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