compound turbos?

luigi90210 · 01-25-2013, 04:18 PM

alright so pretty much i was at the local toyota dealer and i got to see a supra with compound turbo setup

pretty much it was like a twin turbo kit but it works like a single turbo but it offers 0 lag because you have one super small turbo that spools up for great low end but when it reaches a certain boost level, a wastegate will divert as much exhaust gases to the bigger turbo which would have spooled up by then

this video explains it better then i can but i was wondering how possible would it be to do something like that on the 370z?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-Me6yWApzY

Chuck33079 · 01-25-2013, 04:20 PM

I would think you'd run into some plumbing and packaging issues. Maybe a mid mount and a rear mount turbo?

Mitco39 · 01-25-2013, 04:21 PM

Guys do it on the Diesel trucks all the time. From what I read the lag on a twin turbo setup is next to none anyways. You would have so much more piping and have parasitic losses from all the bends and length.

luigi90210 · 01-25-2013, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitco39

Guys do it on the Diesel trucks all the time. From what I read the lag on a twin turbo setup is next to none anyways. You would have so much more piping and have parasitic losses from all the bends and length.

while the twin turbo kits offer good spool time, isnt twin turbo kits only good for low and mid power?
from what i understand a big single is good for mid and top end and a small single is good for low end so wouldnt a compound turbo setup offer the benefits of both?

i understand there is going to be some power loss because of restricted flow but wouldnt the power from boost make up for the lack of exhaust flow?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

From a packaging standpoint, it may be easier to run a supercharger and a turbo instead. It's been done on other cars. I don't see why it wouldn't work on the Z with a large enough wad of cash. I'm not sure it would end up being worth the effort and cost at the end of it. Someone with too much money or insane fab skills needs to give it a shot.

i saw something like this on a 350z, it had the stillen roots blower and the STS rear mounted turbo kit

Mitco39 · 01-25-2013, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luigi90210

while the twin turbo kits offer good spool time, isnt twin turbo kits only good for low and mid power?
from what i understand a big single is good for mid and top end and a small single is good for low end so wouldnt a compound turbo setup offer the benefits of both?

i understand there is going to be some power loss because of restricted flow but wouldnt the power from boost make up for the lack of exhaust flow?

You also have to remember that its not so much boost as it is flow. A awesome flowing truck at say 30PSI can produce just as much HP as 60PSI, boost numbers does not necessarily mean power. Also with compound turbos (where one is not a VVT turbo) I could see issues with lag being caused from the small turbo having to get the larger turbo going. On Diesel trucks the vains in the smaller turbo can be controlled and thus you have much more control over the system.

I am just speaking from a truck standpoint since that is what I know, but I cant see it being much different for cars. If you want a sweet system put a supercharger on the car with twin turbos. You would have to figure out valving such that the supercharger is used in the lower rpms and then it gives way to the turbos. Again it comes down to room for piping.

Chuck33079 · 01-25-2013, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitco39

You also have to remember that its not so much boost as it is flow. A awesome flowing truck at say 30PSI can produce just as much HP as 60PSI, boost numbers does not necessarily mean power.

I was just typing this. Even the wording was eerily similar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by luigi90210

while the twin turbo kits offer good spool time, isnt twin turbo kits only good for low and mid power?

No. Even with a smallish .64 gt28, there's a dramatic power increase all the way up to redline. It's all in the turbo sizing. You could get a smaller single turbo and see the same kinds of spool times you see with twin kits. You could get two larger twins that have the same amount of lag as a single.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitco39

If you want a sweet system put a supercharger on the car with twin turbos. You would have to figure out valving such that the supercharger is used in the lower rpms and then it gives way to the turbos.

This would be awesome. Have the turbos feed a roots blower.

TopgunZ · 01-28-2013, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

This would be awesome. Have the turbos feed a roots blower.

Yeah, I did this with my 350z. Powerlab kit feeding the stillen.

Chuck33079 · 01-25-2013, 04:29 PM

From a packaging standpoint, it may be easier to run a supercharger and a turbo instead. It's been done on other cars. I don't see why it wouldn't work on the Z with a large enough wad of cash. I'm not sure it would end up being worth the effort and cost at the end of it. Someone with too much money or insane fab skills needs to give it a shot.

Mitco39 · 01-25-2013, 04:45 PM

Here is a picture of the turbo/supercharger setup in one of Gale Banks boats. Someone figure out how to make this work on our cars. haha.

Chuck33079 · 01-25-2013, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitco39

Here is a picture of the turbo/supercharger setup in one of Gale Banks boats. Someone figure out how to make this work on our cars. haha.

Is that a diesel?

Jordo! · 01-29-2013, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitco39

Here is a picture of the turbo/supercharger setup in one of Gale Banks boats. Someone figure out how to make this work on our cars. haha.

New hood, clutch-type engagement for the roots blower, A2W IC.

And a boatload of money to fab it all up...

TopgunZ · 01-29-2013, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitco39

Here is a picture of the turbo/supercharger setup in one of Gale Banks boats. Someone figure out how to make this work on our cars. haha.

WTF is going on with this setup? So the roots pulls air from atmosphere and then feeds the twins?? That roots is not being fed by the turbos. Which is awesome for heat, but i cant see the w2a under the sc so how does it get cooled? Im so confused and ive set one of these up myself..lol. But a positive displacement wouldnt make sense to not be direct ported. again. WTF!

Also, in series type twin turbo setups, doest the smaller turbo spin WAY out of efficiency by the time the bigger one is pumping out real high end power? There is no way to clutch out or disengage the smaller turbo.Youd think that by 5,000 rpms it would be superheating the air. Anything under a T28 anyway. But youd have to go that small or you might as well go parallell or single.

Sh0velMan · 01-29-2013, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopgunZ

WTF is going on with this setup? So the roots pulls air from atmosphere and then is mixed with the twin turbo's compressed air and then it all hits the plenum?? That roots is not being fed by the turbos. Which is awesome for heat, but i cant see the w2a under the sc so how does it get cooled? Im so confused and ive set one of these up myself..lol.

Also, in series type twin turbo setups, doest the smaller turbo spin WAY out of efficiency by the time the bigger one is pumping out real high end power? There is no way to clutch out or disengage the smaller turbo.Youd think that by 5,000 rpms it would be superheating the air. Anything under a T28 anyway. But youd have to go that small or you might as well go parallell or single.

Looks like the blower compresses air into the inlet of the turbos, then from the turbos into the plenum/WAI.

TopgunZ · 01-29-2013, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh0velMan

Looks like the blower compresses air into the inlet of the turbos, then from the turbos into the plenum/WAI.

Hmmm...I bet its not w2a at all. It has an unlimited amount of water so its water to water. Air doesnt cool anything at all. However, I dont see where the single radiator would sit to cool off the end result. Also, its goofy picturing a positive displacement charger charging air through the turbo and system of plumbing. And where is the intake for the plenum if that sc is spit out to the turbos?

Uhhhhhh...

Mitco39 · 01-25-2013, 04:54 PM

Yes its a Chevy Duramax Engine.

Well technically its a Isuzu Engine, haha

01-25-2013, 04:18 PM	#1 (permalink)
luigi90210 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 1,103 Drives: Classified Rep Power: 16	compound turbos? alright so pretty much i was at the local toyota dealer and i got to see a supra with compound turbo setup pretty much it was like a twin turbo kit but it works like a single turbo but it offers 0 lag because you have one super small turbo that spools up for great low end but when it reaches a certain boost level, a wastegate will divert as much exhaust gases to the bigger turbo which would have spooled up by then this video explains it better then i can but i was wondering how possible would it be to do something like that on the 370z? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-Me6yWApzY

01-25-2013, 04:20 PM	#2 (permalink)
Chuck33079 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Houston Posts: 12,265 Drives: 2011 370ztt Rep Power: 29539	I would think you'd run into some plumbing and packaging issues. Maybe a mid mount and a rear mount turbo? __________________ 2011 MB Touring-Sport-6sp-Nav/GTM TT/FI TT TDX/JTran/Kosmic/Eibach/Hotchkis/SPC/CSF/RPS/SoThatsWhereAllMyMoneyWent

01-25-2013, 04:21 PM	#3 (permalink)
Mitco39 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada Posts: 2,089 Drives: 40th 370z Rep Power: 132	Guys do it on the Diesel trucks all the time. From what I read the lag on a twin turbo setup is next to none anyways. You would have so much more piping and have parasitic losses from all the bends and length. __________________ 2007 Chevy Duramax - EFILive Tuned By Me 2010 40th W/ Nav - Boosted Performance - UpRev Tuned By Me The Mrs. Ride -2012 335XI N55 BMW - Cobb Tuned By Me, Built by her My Build --> http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...39s-build.html

01-25-2013, 04:29 PM	#8 (permalink)
Chuck33079 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Houston Posts: 12,265 Drives: 2011 370ztt Rep Power: 29539	From a packaging standpoint, it may be easier to run a supercharger and a turbo instead. It's been done on other cars. I don't see why it wouldn't work on the Z with a large enough wad of cash. I'm not sure it would end up being worth the effort and cost at the end of it. Someone with too much money or insane fab skills needs to give it a shot. DEpointfive0 likes this. __________________ 2011 MB Touring-Sport-6sp-Nav/GTM TT/FI TT TDX/JTran/Kosmic/Eibach/Hotchkis/SPC/CSF/RPS/SoThatsWhereAllMyMoneyWent

01-25-2013, 04:45 PM	#9 (permalink)
Mitco39 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada Posts: 2,089 Drives: 40th 370z Rep Power: 132	Here is a picture of the turbo/supercharger setup in one of Gale Banks boats. Someone figure out how to make this work on our cars. haha. __________________ 2007 Chevy Duramax - EFILive Tuned By Me 2010 40th W/ Nav - Boosted Performance - UpRev Tuned By Me The Mrs. Ride -2012 335XI N55 BMW - Cobb Tuned By Me, Built by her My Build --> http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...39s-build.html

01-25-2013, 04:54 PM	#15 (permalink)
Mitco39 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada Posts: 2,089 Drives: 40th 370z Rep Power: 132	Yes its a Chevy Duramax Engine. Well technically its a Isuzu Engine, haha __________________ 2007 Chevy Duramax - EFILive Tuned By Me 2010 40th W/ Nav - Boosted Performance - UpRev Tuned By Me The Mrs. Ride -2012 335XI N55 BMW - Cobb Tuned By Me, Built by her My Build --> http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...39s-build.html

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