Beefing up the short block for tt

SharpByCoop · 01-08-2013, 11:20 AM

I ran the OEM components up to 591 hp and at that point the rods bent like an S. Fortunately no damage, but that happened. 550 is really close to that.

Lower end built to exactly your query: K1 rods, ARP studs, OEM gaskets and bearings, and Wiseco 9.0:1 pistons. Had the rotating assembly/pistons/rods balanced as well.

This has the ability to sustain more than 600whp now, with upgraded fuel components (which I also did.)

I thought the 9:1 pistons would be doggish. No way. The engine has SO much torque that after the tuner added ignition timing there, it drives as responsive as it used to. Not a notable loss at partial throttle.

My experience. It also costs a FORTUNE to remove engine to do all this. I would lock it at 525whp and ride into the sunset if you don't plan on pushing further.

Coop

BlkNismo · 01-08-2013, 11:23 AM

I am always willing to accept constructive criticism and appreciate all that put forth info into this thread.

I was primarily looking for feedback on build components itself, however much of the feedback here is geared towards scrapping the idea of built short block and keeping the oem block.

It is always a risk tearing the motor down and rebuilding. As stated just because your putting forged components in, if install or tolerances are not on spec, disaster will come shortly later. Many are running more then my goal on oem internals; maybe I should just set aside funds for the block if it is needed down the road. Yes, it may or may not be needed, I may end up spending more money down the road on labor...decisions decisions...

Mr.Squeeze · 01-08-2013, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theDreamer

I am not saying 9/10 die, I am just saying he wants reliability and a built motor does not always equal reliability when it comes to cars. Especially if all he wants is ~500whp for daily driving it seems like a waste and could cause more headaches. A good tune, install and boost controller would be an overall better investment where he can drive daily on a lower boost setting and then turn it up for fun runs. Plus in 5 years time he might be onto a new car, different path with the Z, or something else and the built motor was a waste.

I understand where your coming from that's the reason I said your post was a little bit misleading. What your saying here is very true good install and a tune can go a long way.

It comes down to if he is going to be driving him self crazy worrying if its going to blow up or not then build it.

Mr.Squeeze · 01-08-2013, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlkNismo

I am always willing to accept constructive criticism and appreciate all that put forth info into this thread.

I was primarily looking for feedback on build components itself, however much of the feedback here is geared towards scrapping the idea of built short block and keeping the oem block.

It is always a risk tearing the motor down and rebuilding. As stated just because your putting forged components in, if install or tolerances are not on spec, disaster will come shortly later. Many are running more then my goal on oem internals; maybe I should just set aside funds for the block if it is needed down the road. Yes, it may or may not be needed, I may end up spending more money down the road on labor...decisions decisions...

Setting money aside just is case is a wise choice keep your eye out for a spare block. I got lucky and found a spare long block for really cheap right here on the forum, I grabbed it even though my stock one is built already.

FPenvy · 01-08-2013, 12:16 PM

i have a question. first off this thread has had lots of good questions and info so far so

my question is with a stage 2 kit and a stock block you guys are saying 550WHP is about the max "safe" power? i keep going back and forth on if i'm going FI or not based on my upgraded transmission price woes. my real goal is to get a stage 2 TT kit and run 10-12PSI hopefully hitting 500WHP minimum. i do DD my car in the warm months. right now it's put away for winter. i drive pretty normal to and from work but i do take it to the 1/4 mile strips once or twice a month for a couple runs. i wonder ifi can get away with that and keeping a stock block?

BlkNismo · 01-08-2013, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SharpByCoop

I ran the OEM components up to 591 hp and at that point the rods bent like an S. Fortunately no damage, but that happened. 550 is really close to that.

Lower end built to exactly your query: K1 rods, ARP studs, OEM gaskets and bearings, and Wiseco 9.0:1 pistons. Had the rotating assembly/pistons/rods balanced as well.

This has the ability to sustain more than 600whp now, with upgraded fuel components (which I also did.)

I thought the 9:1 pistons would be doggish. No way. The engine has SO much torque that after the tuner added ignition timing there, it drives as responsive as it used to. Not a notable loss at partial throttle.

My experience. It also costs a FORTUNE to remove engine to do all this. I would lock it at 525whp and ride into the sunset if you don't plan on pushing further.

Coop

Ultimately, If I decide to run oem block, I will probably lock it in around 450-470whp. Running off an ebc, I suppose the lowest boost I could run in 6.5-7psi?

BlkNismo · 01-08-2013, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPenvy

i have a question. first off this thread has had lots of good questions and info so far so

my question is with a stage 2 kit and a stock block you guys are saying 550WHP is about the max "safe" power? i keep going back and forth on if i'm going FI or not based on my upgraded transmission price woes. my real goal is to get a stage 2 TT kit and run 10-12PSI hopefully hitting 500WHP minimum. i do DD my car in the warm months. right now it's put away for winter. i drive pretty normal to and from work but i do take it to the 1/4 mile strips once or twice a month for a couple runs. i wonder ifi can get away with that and keeping a stock block?

From various dyno graphs posted, the stage 2 pushing 10 psi + on stock compression exeeds 500whp easily.

FPenvy · 01-08-2013, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlkNismo

From various dyno graphs posted, the stage 2 pushing 10 psi + on stock compression exeeds 500whp easily.

i'm just hoping if i go that route with TT i want 500WHP atleast but not trying to dump 3k more into the block when i'll be dropping 6k on the GTM upgraded transmission since i have a 7AT

elperuano · 01-08-2013, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPenvy

i'm just hoping if i go that route with TT i want 500WHP atleast but not trying to dump 3k more into the block when i'll be dropping 6k on the GTM upgraded transmission since i have a 7AT

I'm stage 2 but I'm 6mt. 500whp will not be a problem. Read my earlier post about driving habits and u could use that as a guideline somewhat. These motors r pretty strong already. I take good care of my car, that being said I use the stage 2 the way it was meant to be used! I have 1 map only and it's set at 12lbs. Well I got 2 maps but I'll never turn down boost! I'm always itching to turn it up!

FPenvy · 01-08-2013, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elperuano

I'm stage 2 but I'm 6mt. 500whp will not be a problem. Read my earlier post about driving habits and u could use that as a guideline somewhat. These motors r pretty strong already. I take good care of my car, that being said I use the stage 2 the way it was meant to be used! I have 1 map only and it's set at 12lbs. Well I got 2 maps but I'll never turn down boost! I'm always itching to turn it up!

i'm probably like you then because i dont ever see myself running a "low boost" map at like 5-6 psi. just set it at 10-12psi to hit the numbers/performance i want without going too high and blowing my engine lol

Cmike2780 · 01-08-2013, 03:07 PM

Although the stock block has more than proven itself to be plenty reliable if you don't go too crazy with boost, I think the OP has the right approach. I design structural components for buildings and as a rule of thumb, its always best to overdesign something rather than have it fail due to something unforseen. The engineers at Nissan know this...which is why it can handle a bit of boost. If you can afford to spend the cash for a build, it's going to save you a lot of time and headache later when/if you decide you want more power. You need to find the right balance of what you can afford to spend and reliability. If you don't leave yourself a margin for error, you'll end up broke like a few guys I've heard rumors about.

theDreamer · 01-09-2013, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlkNismo

Ultimately, If I decide to run oem block, I will probably lock it in around 450-470whp. Running off an ebc, I suppose the lowest boost I could run in 6.5-7psi?

You can run boost down as low as the spring will allow. I believe some can go as low as 4PSI but I think most run 6PSI as lowest and then tune it up to 10-12PSI for those fun runs.

Red__Zed · 01-09-2013, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cmike2780

Although the stock block has more than proven itself to be plenty reliable if you don't go too crazy with boost, I think the OP has the right approach. I design structural components for buildings and as a rule of thumb, its always best to overdesign something rather than have it fail due to something unforseen. The engineers at Nissan know this...which is why it can handle a bit of boost. If you can afford to spend the cash for a build, it's going to save you a lot of time and headache later when/if you decide you want more power. You need to find the right balance of what you can afford to spend and reliability. If you don't leave yourself a margin for error, you'll end up broke like a few guys I've heard rumors about.

It's not so simple to say that aftermarket parts are overdesigned. There are a myriad of complex factors that come into play when you start swapping internals, and you're usually trading certain types of reliability for others.

GaleForce · 01-09-2013, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Squeeze

Setting money aside just is case is a wise choice keep your eye out for a spare block. I got lucky and found a spare long block for really cheap right here on the forum, I grabbed it even though my stock one is built already.

That's what I'm going to do. Hopefully I can get lucky enough to find another motor.

DIGItonium · 01-09-2013, 10:22 AM

I'm jealous of FI owners tuned to over 500 whp. Granted, 400-450 whp is more than enough to shred meaty tires. My car is so much more fun to drive now after replacing the brake switch and slightly tightening the manual boost controller (1/8th turn).

As for longevity, my car is daily driven. My friends asked me to track it, but I prefer not to since this is a daily driver setup - not a bulletproof track setup. My car had about 22k miles when the turbos were installed, and it is marching towards 49k miles. Sometimes I wonder if the engine will outlast the turbos.

01-08-2013, 11:20 AM	#31 (permalink)
SharpByCoop Enthusiast Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Connecticut Posts: 286 Drives: '08 G37S - Graphite Rep Power: 15	I ran the OEM components up to 591 hp and at that point the rods bent like an S. Fortunately no damage, but that happened. 550 is really close to that. Lower end built to exactly your query: K1 rods, ARP studs, OEM gaskets and bearings, and Wiseco 9.0:1 pistons. Had the rotating assembly/pistons/rods balanced as well. This has the ability to sustain more than 600whp now, with upgraded fuel components (which I also did.) I thought the 9:1 pistons would be doggish. No way. The engine has SO much torque that after the tuner added ignition timing there, it drives as responsive as it used to. Not a notable loss at partial throttle. My experience. It also costs a FORTUNE to remove engine to do all this. I would lock it at 525whp and ride into the sunset if you don't plan on pushing further. Coop __________________ Jim Cooper - (Retired: '08 Infiniti G37 Sport • TheShopCT built • 11.13 @ 123 mph (click for vid) • GTM Stage II Twin Turbo • 5-speed A/T Level Ten built • 591whp @17 lbs boost)

01-08-2013, 03:07 PM	#41 (permalink)
Cmike2780 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Long Island Posts: 5,059 Drives: slowwww Rep Power: 29	Although the stock block has more than proven itself to be plenty reliable if you don't go too crazy with boost, I think the OP has the right approach. I design structural components for buildings and as a rule of thumb, its always best to overdesign something rather than have it fail due to something unforseen. The engineers at Nissan know this...which is why it can handle a bit of boost. If you can afford to spend the cash for a build, it's going to save you a lot of time and headache later when/if you decide you want more power. You need to find the right balance of what you can afford to spend and reliability. If you don't leave yourself a margin for error, you'll end up broke like a few guys I've heard rumors about. __________________ [09][MB][6-Spd MT][Touring][Stillen Gen III][K&N][Borla CBE][Evo-R] [ArchitTEK Photography]

01-09-2013, 10:22 AM	#45 (permalink)
DIGItonium A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Kansas Posts: 3,800 Drives: 09 Z34-TT 6MT Rep Power: 42	I'm jealous of FI owners tuned to over 500 whp. Granted, 400-450 whp is more than enough to shred meaty tires. My car is so much more fun to drive now after replacing the brake switch and slightly tightening the manual boost controller (1/8th turn). As for longevity, my car is daily driven. My friends asked me to track it, but I prefer not to since this is a daily driver setup - not a bulletproof track setup. My car had about 22k miles when the turbos were installed, and it is marching towards 49k miles. Sometimes I wonder if the engine will outlast the turbos. GaleForce and MyKindaGuise like this. __________________

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01-08-2013, 11:23 AM	#32 (permalink)
BlkNismo Track Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: USA Posts: 614 Drives: Nismo Rep Power: 15	I am always willing to accept constructive criticism and appreciate all that put forth info into this thread. I was primarily looking for feedback on build components itself, however much of the feedback here is geared towards scrapping the idea of built short block and keeping the oem block. It is always a risk tearing the motor down and rebuilding. As stated just because your putting forged components in, if install or tolerances are not on spec, disaster will come shortly later. Many are running more then my goal on oem internals; maybe I should just set aside funds for the block if it is needed down the road. Yes, it may or may not be needed, I may end up spending more money down the road on labor...decisions decisions...