Kers (kinetic energy regeneration)

Red__Zed · 01-01-2013, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmkraft12

I agree about the use of a super capacitor for KERS in a road car. I think that because of the danger of fires during the use of them it is unlikely they will be used, it will most likely be mechanical in the future. But regardless did you really need to flash your degree. Lol.

Also when did I argue against you thoughts about the use of super capacitors. I just wanted the OP to know that you aren't magically creating the energy it is being recovered from somewhere else. That is all I have said yet people a flipping out. I am not trying to argue I'm just trying to help out the op. As I said before he should be careful about listening to the people on this thread. Including me. All I know about KERS is what I have read. I am not an expert on it. I am just trying to add what I have read so that the wrong idea is not given. So please. Lighten up.

Regenerative is a perfectly fine word to use to describe the system. You came in with an attitude, and I just pointed out it wasn't really a point worth arguing.

As far as your comment about fire risk from supercaps in a road car...they're certainly safer than the batteries hybrids run now, and Tesla doesn't seem to have any issues with them in their road cars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmkraft12

And lastly my most important part about the definition. Is it says to restore a substance to its original state. Is energy a substance. Didn't think so.

Again, dictionary.com is not where I would go for definitions, and it is parenthesized for a reason.

Energy does have some substance like properties, though. It is actually a curious task to try to nail down the definition of just what energy is.

kmkraft12 · 01-01-2013, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

Regenerative is a perfectly fine word to use to describe the system. You came in with an attitude, and I just pointed out it wasn't really a point worth arguing.

As far as your comment about fire risk from supercaps in a road car...they're certainly safer than the batteries hybrids run now, and Tesla doesn't seem to have any issues with them in their road cars.

First of I think you mid interpreted my attitude I was trying to be sarcastic in my original post. 'Jokes heard of em' (that's sarcasm as well) lol. But anyways I still don't think regeneration can be used in this situation. Can you regenerate energy. No.

Now onto the capacitors.

Really. That's great I personally think that the electric option would be more efficient in the future. I hadn't read anything about them becoming safer, but I guess they are still used so it makes sense.

kmkraft12 · 01-01-2013, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomer_110

According to Einstein's famous equation it is. E = mc^2

Explain how?

elperuano · 01-01-2013, 03:56 PM

Lol!! This thread turned hilarious!

kmkraft12 · 01-01-2013, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elperuano

Lol!! This thread turned hilarious!

That was my fault. I guess if it is a fault. It is quite entertaining. Anyways my bad.

SouthArk370Z · 01-01-2013, 04:08 PM

My apologies to PEPI for cluttering up his thread. I've deleted my off topic comments pertaining to usage of terms. Everything I said was quoted at one place or the other, so it's all still in the thread - it just won't waste as much space now.
If anyone wants to claim a "victory" in the "debate" because I refuse to beat my head against a wall, go ahead. I have a tough hide and can take it.

2011 Nismo#91 · 01-01-2013, 06:40 PM

I don;t know why I bother to post anything in this forum anymore.

kmkraft12 · 01-01-2013, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011 Nismo#91

I don;t know why I bother to post anything in this forum anymore.

Haven't you been to the Internet. What do you expect from a forum. Lol

people always jump on what you say.

2011 Nismo#91 · 01-01-2013, 07:03 PM

Yep your right no point to contribute to this pile of **** forum.

elperuano · 01-01-2013, 07:16 PM

Good riddance

Red__Zed · 01-01-2013, 09:24 PM

Back on topic, KERS is a pretty cool idea that I think is quite a ways away from being feasible in a car at a reasonable price point, and a really long way away from being something you can readily retro-fit.

I've done a bit of research into a staged supercap / li-ion arrangement that winds up pulling a lot more energy from braking, but you still run into issues getting that power back to the wheels. Electric motor technology has not progressed much in the last 50 years, and they're fairly heavy to add on to a gasoline vehicle.

KERS is likely to be hot stuff on every electric vehicle going forward, but it gets really hard to justify the weight of the extra motors over other options for adding power...not to mention programming a control system is a non-trivial task (for one-off applications).

The mechanical systems you are talking about are pretty neat, although I haven't really seen any that seem particularly streetable. There's usually a pretty steep dropoff in efficiency if the flywheel isn't operating at insane speeds, and the materials generally wind up being extremely expensive. I have seen some pretty cool applications on transit buses, and I know Volvo just got a big grant for development of one, but I still haven't seen much that looks like it would make sense on a sporty street car.

kmkraft12 · 01-01-2013, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

Back on topic, KERS is a pretty cool idea that I think is quite a ways away from being feasible in a car at a reasonable price point, and a really long way away from being something you can readily retro-fit.

I've done a bit of research into a staged supercap / li-ion arrangement that winds up pulling a lot more energy from braking, but you still run into issues getting that power back to the wheels. Electric motor technology has not progressed much in the last 50 years, and they're fairly heavy to add on to a gasoline vehicle.

KERS is likely to be hot stuff on every electric vehicle going forward, but it gets really hard to justify the weight of the extra motors over other options for adding power...not to mention programming a control system is a non-trivial task (for one-off applications).

The mechanical systems you are talking about are pretty neat, although I haven't really seen any that seem particularly streetable. There's usually a pretty steep dropoff in efficiency if the flywheel isn't operating at insane speeds, and the materials generally wind up being extremely expensive. I have seen some pretty cool applications on transit buses, and I know Volvo just got a big grant for development of one, but I still haven't seen much that looks like it would make sense on a sporty street car.

And on top of the weight car manufactures are going to have a difficult time passing environmental standards because of the production of electric parts. At the time electric cars are worse for the environment than gas cars, because of how they are manufactured.

PEPI · 01-02-2013, 12:20 AM

jesus!!!
just read all....... what the hell have i started????

Anyhoo - there are companies who do 'conversions' with type of technology
US Hybrid designs and manufactures clean mobility and energy conservation integrated solutions.
Hybrid Conversions For a Green Fleet | XL Hybrids

These companies may be pitched toward the transport, people movers, and freight vehicles - but in my defense, this is where i essentially I would thought I would bounce the idea of KERS technology for our make of cars.

I personally would like to have forced induction - but I would rather stay in atmo configuration. If you have the money then - sky's the limit. Most forced induction builds to be made reliable and strong do cost a lot - keep in mind I am also talking about work on the engine internals as well.

I do think there is potential here - I would have thought the hardest part of having a system like this would be having the software to manage KERS whilst interacting with the cars main ECU - to make it all work smoothly.

Bottom line it could be done as we have car makers (eg Ferrari etc) already selling car with KERS systems built into their vehicles.

It may be a little way off in the future - but looking into it....the future may lie in KERS technology slowly becoming the choice over s/c or turbo'ing. Engines are now becoming highly effecient - businesses are applying it to fleet vehicles as we speak it would seem....

Forums are places to share ideas - from these ideas R&D work some times become a reality - you never know. Got to start somewhere.

So in closing - I will be careful in future not to post threads tooooooooo 'outhere' so as not to spark war and peace posts................. I'd be better off concentrating getting my info and pic builds of my Zed onto the forum.

SouthArk370Z · 01-02-2013, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PEPI

... So in closing - I will be careful in future not to post threads tooooooooo 'outhere' so as not to spark war and peace posts ...

It's not your fault, I let my guard down and allowed a troll to suck me in.

And your post was not out there at all. It's a bit premature to think about retro-fitting a sports car, especially as a DIY project, but still an interesting topic. If you have access to back issues of IEEE's Spectrum magazine, they have had some excellent articles on regen braking over the last ten years or so.

Trips · 01-02-2013, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PEPI

jesus!!!
just read all....... what the hell have i started????

Anyhoo - there are companies who do 'conversions' with type of technology
US Hybrid designs and manufactures clean mobility and energy conservation integrated solutions.
Hybrid Conversions For a Green Fleet | XL Hybrids

These companies may be pitched toward the transport, people movers, and freight vehicles - but in my defense, this is where i essentially I would thought I would bounce the idea of KERS technology for our make of cars.

I personally would like to have forced induction - but I would rather stay in atmo configuration. If you have the money then - sky's the limit. Most forced induction builds to be made reliable and strong do cost a lot - keep in mind I am also talking about work on the engine internals as well.

I do think there is potential here - I would have thought the hardest part of having a system like this would be having the software to manage KERS whilst interacting with the cars main ECU - to make it all work smoothly.

Bottom line it could be done as we have car makers (eg Ferrari etc) already selling car with KERS systems built into their vehicles.

It may be a little way off in the future - but looking into it....the future may lie in KERS technology slowly becoming the choice over s/c or turbo'ing. Engines are now becoming highly effecient - businesses are applying it to fleet vehicles as we speak it would seem....

Forums are places to share ideas - from these ideas R&D work some times become a reality - you never know. Got to start somewhere.

So in closing - I will be careful in future not to post threads tooooooooo 'outhere' so as not to spark war and peace posts................. I'd be better off concentrating getting my info and pic builds of my Zed onto the forum.

I would have to agree

And if there's no objection I'll consider this discussion closed.

01-01-2013, 04:08 PM	#36 (permalink)
SouthArk370Z Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: South Arkansas Posts: 8,435 Drives: 2014 Challenger Rep Power: 324198	My apologies to PEPI for cluttering up his thread. I've deleted my off topic comments pertaining to usage of terms. Everything I said was quoted at one place or the other, so it's all still in the thread - it just won't waste as much space now. If anyone wants to claim a "victory" in the "debate" because I refuse to beat my head against a wall, go ahead. I have a tough hide and can take it. Jasonle, PEPI and DEpointfive0 like this. __________________ Steering Lock Links - Search The370Z Bookmarklet - FSM @ NICOclub Mankind has progressed past the need for war but we haven't evolved that far. - NachoMahma

01-01-2013, 07:16 PM	#40 (permalink)
elperuano A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Southwest FL Posts: 1,374 Drives: G37S Rep Power: 29	Good riddance m3chhawk likes this.

01-01-2013, 09:24 PM	#41 (permalink)
Red__Zed A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: window seat Posts: 28,940 Drives: Mostly on two wheels Rep Power: 120	Back on topic, KERS is a pretty cool idea that I think is quite a ways away from being feasible in a car at a reasonable price point, and a really long way away from being something you can readily retro-fit. I've done a bit of research into a staged supercap / li-ion arrangement that winds up pulling a lot more energy from braking, but you still run into issues getting that power back to the wheels. Electric motor technology has not progressed much in the last 50 years, and they're fairly heavy to add on to a gasoline vehicle. KERS is likely to be hot stuff on every electric vehicle going forward, but it gets really hard to justify the weight of the extra motors over other options for adding power...not to mention programming a control system is a non-trivial task (for one-off applications). The mechanical systems you are talking about are pretty neat, although I haven't really seen any that seem particularly streetable. There's usually a pretty steep dropoff in efficiency if the flywheel isn't operating at insane speeds, and the materials generally wind up being extremely expensive. I have seen some pretty cool applications on transit buses, and I know Volvo just got a big grant for development of one, but I still haven't seen much that looks like it would make sense on a sporty street car. PEPI and DEpointfive0 like this.

01-02-2013, 12:20 AM	#43 (permalink)
PEPI Base Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Darwin NT Australia Posts: 152 Drives: 2009 370z Sports 6MT Rep Power: 13	jesus!!! just read all....... what the hell have i started???? Anyhoo - there are companies who do 'conversions' with type of technology US Hybrid designs and manufactures clean mobility and energy conservation integrated solutions. Hybrid Conversions For a Green Fleet \| XL Hybrids These companies may be pitched toward the transport, people movers, and freight vehicles - but in my defense, this is where i essentially I would thought I would bounce the idea of KERS technology for our make of cars. I personally would like to have forced induction - but I would rather stay in atmo configuration. If you have the money then - sky's the limit. Most forced induction builds to be made reliable and strong do cost a lot - keep in mind I am also talking about work on the engine internals as well. I do think there is potential here - I would have thought the hardest part of having a system like this would be having the software to manage KERS whilst interacting with the cars main ECU - to make it all work smoothly. Bottom line it could be done as we have car makers (eg Ferrari etc) already selling car with KERS systems built into their vehicles. It may be a little way off in the future - but looking into it....the future may lie in KERS technology slowly becoming the choice over s/c or turbo'ing. Engines are now becoming highly effecient - businesses are applying it to fleet vehicles as we speak it would seem.... Forums are places to share ideas - from these ideas R&D work some times become a reality - you never know. Got to start somewhere. So in closing - I will be careful in future not to post threads tooooooooo 'outhere' so as not to spark war and peace posts................. I'd be better off concentrating getting my info and pic builds of my Zed onto the forum. __________________ Chicane Yellow 370z 6MT Touring + Yellow THE ZED .... functional motoring with attitude.

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01-01-2013, 03:56 PM	#34 (permalink)
elperuano A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Southwest FL Posts: 1,374 Drives: G37S Rep Power: 29	Lol!! This thread turned hilarious!

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