Stillen Supercharger reliabiity

dansracing · 02-01-2013, 12:47 PM

[QUOTE=irondoc;2142067]

Quote:

Originally Posted by elperuano

It's amazing that the inferior Stillen kit still gets this much play.

The main reason everyone goes for this kit is because with the Stillen SC and Stillen tune it's supposedly still keeps "warranty". For everyone that went this route they quickly realized the cost wasn't worth what the Stillen SC provided. The Stillen tune is complete garbage. You can almost make the same with the most mods people go with anyway i.e. exhaust intake tp/HFC and an Osiris tune.
Once people realized Stillen tune was garbage, to save face they threw the warranty out the window and went with a custom tune. Even then the gains for what ur paying is minimal....

There seems to be some venom against Stillen out there. Not sure why but…
My experience was not seamless, but the above hardly reflects what actually happened.
I am no expert. I wanted SC because of the faster power response. I have had several turbo cars and could always feel the turbo lag. Even in my brothers 2011 335 with a stock TT set up the lag is apparent.
My research showed Stillen to be the best option for a supercharger. I was looking for HP gains well beyond what non-FI options can provide and from what I can tell, the statement “…You can almost make the same with the most mods people go with anyway i.e. exhaust intake tp/HFC and an Osiris tune…” simply isn’t true. The best by far I have seen any one report without FI is roughly 340whp and that was with high flow cats – definitely not CARB legal and generally marketed as an off road option only.
The GTM kit lists for $8726 for the satin kit (without an oil cooler). Their web site states “…This includes installation with before and after dyno testing. Expected results for this with tuning session are 360-400 rwhp….”
In order for them to include installation in the price one would presumably have to go to them for the install. Not an option for me.
Stillen’s kit lists at $6300 for the Satin kit and estimates 12 hours for install. The oil cooler was $600 with tax and shipping. My install costs including the 25 row oil cooler and all the extra work (due to previously described issues) was $1900. So installed with oil cooler (not included in GTM kit) was $8800. Realistically $7800 without the oil cooler.
That is over $900 less than the GTM and I dyno’d at 394 whp on the Stillen tune with snow tires. I am told by my tuner to expect roughly 405whp with my NISMO wheels and summer tires. So on a cost/hp ratio, I believe I did better than with the GTM kit.

Very well said. The only real point in reading these forums is that there are so many opinions. Those opinions are based on many different circumstances and attitudes. There are posters from the age of 15 to 50, and those that will never be happy and those that will never have enough power. And of course those who think that if you don't do it like they did it then it is wrong. The great thing is that you can read through all of that and pretty quickly determine what is BS and what you can actually use. The bottom line is your car is unique to you, and your wants are not what others may be wanting so don't get caught up in the negativity. Since this is a "Stillen" thread, I will proudly say that I just ordered my Stillen SC and it's on the way. I am completely happy with my decision and have done enough research to satisfy me. My expectations are in line with what I know about it and I plan on being okay with it. If its not, then I will change it.
Thank you for all of the info that I have absorbed from this and other threads and to all of you who just state your experiences and not just come in here to bash a product that may not have worked out for you.

elperuano · 02-01-2013, 01:33 PM

[QUOTE=dansracing;2142735]

Quote:

Originally Posted by irondoc

Very well said. The only real point in reading these forums is that there are so many opinions. Those opinions are based on many different circumstances and attitudes. There are posters from the age of 15 to 50, and those that will never be happy and those that will never have enough power. And of course those who think that if you don't do it like they did it then it is wrong. The great thing is that you can read through all of that and pretty quickly determine what is BS and what you can actually use. The bottom line is your car is unique to you, and your wants are not what others may be wanting so don't get caught up in the negativity. Since this is a "Stillen" thread, I will proudly say that I just ordered my Stillen SC and it's on the way. I am completely happy with my decision and have done enough research to satisfy me. My expectations are in line with what I know about it and I plan on being okay with it. If its not, then I will change it.
Thank you for all of the info that I have absorbed from this and other threads and to all of you who just state your experiences and not just come in here to bash a product that may not have worked out for you.

Well said, I can appreciate that.

irondoc · 02-02-2013, 07:33 PM

[QUOTE=dansracing;2142735]

Quote:

Originally Posted by irondoc

Very well said. The only real point in reading these forums is that there are so many opinions. Those opinions are based on many different circumstances and attitudes. There are posters from the age of 15 to 50, and those that will never be happy and those that will never have enough power. And of course those who think that if you don't do it like they did it then it is wrong. The great thing is that you can read through all of that and pretty quickly determine what is BS and what you can actually use. The bottom line is your car is unique to you, and your wants are not what others may be wanting so don't get caught up in the negativity. Since this is a "Stillen" thread, I will proudly say that I just ordered my Stillen SC and it's on the way. I am completely happy with my decision and have done enough research to satisfy me. My expectations are in line with what I know about it and I plan on being okay with it. If its not, then I will change it.
Thank you for all of the info that I have absorbed from this and other threads and to all of you who just state your experiences and not just come in here to bash a product that may not have worked out for you.

Dan, Though you may end up going nuts with 9-10 psi pulleys, and other ways to get up close to 500whp, the initial Stillen tune will make such a big jump in power over your NISMO it will be startling. This is by far the fastest car I have ever owned. I have learned that I get much better acceleration with the traction control turned off. When on, it kicks in constantly and every time the squiggly lines show up the engine backs off on the throttle. The only problem is it is way too easy to leave tread on the pavement. You will have a blast. Who is doing the install and when do you expect it to be ready?

dansracing · 02-02-2013, 08:29 PM

[QUOTE=irondoc;2144884]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dansracing

Dan, Though you may end up going nuts with 9-10 psi pulleys, and other ways to get up close to 500whp, the initial Stillen tune will make such a big jump in power over your NISMO it will be startling. This is by far the fastest car I have ever owned. I have learned that I get much better acceleration with the traction control turned off. When on, it kicks in constantly and every time the squiggly lines show up the engine backs off on the throttle. The only problem is it is way too easy to leave tread on the pavement. You will have a blast. Who is doing the install and when do you expect it to be ready?

Kit is supposed to show up this Tuesday. I have to send off the intake tube for powder coating and expect it back the following week, maybe Wednesday. If all goes right I will be sucking some serious air by Feb. 18. I will give a full report with pictures.
I don't see myself messing with the pulleys for more gain. I want to leave the system as is. If I ever do anything, I would look at Meth injection. A guy in our group who has the Stillen SC just had the Meth kit installed last Thursday. HUGE improvement. He has a 350z and has been running the Stillen kit for about a year with no issues at all. He was making 375 WHP. Adding the Meth Kit, it jumped up to like 423.
His work and my work will be done by J Tran Studios in Houston. They are experts on our cars and the tuner Johnny Tran is very good. They have done tons of FI work and countless tunes, specializing in the Nissan Z.

irondoc · 02-02-2013, 07:40 PM

[QUOTE=elperuano;2141180]It's amazing that the inferior Stillen kit still gets this much play.

...Once people realized Stillen tune was garbage...

Elperuano - Just wondering here. Not challenging you or talking trash - I just want to know what exactly is "garbage" about the Stillen tune? Is it optimizing power output? Is it reliability? Why is the tune bad in your opinion?

elperuano · 02-02-2013, 10:01 PM

[QUOTE=irondoc;2144892]

Quote:

Originally Posted by elperuano

It's amazing that the inferior Stillen kit still gets this much play.

...Once people realized Stillen tune was garbage...

Elperuano - Just wondering here. Not challenging you or talking trash - I just want to know what exactly is "garbage" about the Stillen tune? Is it optimizing power output? Is it reliability? Why is the tune bad in your opinion?

Well the power output is pretty bad, drivability is bad... Just from what I've read over time on other forums and this one. I don't think I can think of more than 2-3 Z's that stayed with the Stillen tune. A canned tune isn't best for every car. Any FI added to the car should always have a personal tune for ur specific car to make the best out of it.

elperuano · 02-01-2013, 10:28 AM

Might not be every Stillen owner but the MAJORITY yes.
Money to power it just doesn't make sense. Ur at 394 n the highest you saw NA was 340. Compare what that NA paid to what u paid for 50 more hp.
Another thing you said was SC is instant power? At 3.6-3.7k rpm I'm at full boost. I'm barely under that rpm every shift if running the car hard so it's almost instant boost every shift after.
There are much better SC kits out there in my opinion. As always just research before pulling trigger. I like doing things right the first time to save money in my pocket and wear on my car. Too many times I've read a Stillen owner upgrading this and that, adding this and that and every change requires another dyno tuning session which is more money and wear on motor.

Chuck33079 · 02-01-2013, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elperuano

Another thing you said was SC is instant power? At 3.6-3.7k rpm I'm at full boost. I'm barely under that rpm every shift if running the car hard so it's almost instant boost every shift after.

I think he's referring to the lag between pressing the throttle and the time the turbo needs to produce positive pressure. There's always going to be lag in a turbo setup. Your boost threshold may be 3600 rpm, but there's a delay between pressing the throttle and the time the turbo spins up. On a WOT run, it's less noticable than transitional on/off throttle situations. A turbo setup will never have the same throttle response as a SC since you're driving the SC directly off the crank pulley. It's a trade-off. SC's are going to have better throttle response while making full boost closer to redline and producing less torque. Turbos just have more steps in the process to making boost, and it shows up as lag. I'm not going to touch the Stillen vs GTM SC issue.

Sh0velMan · 02-01-2013, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

I think he's referring to the lag between pressing the throttle and the time the turbo needs to produce positive pressure. There's always going to be lag in a turbo setup. Your boost threshold may be 3600 rpm, but there's a delay between pressing the throttle and the time the turbo spins up. On a WOT run, it's less noticable than transitional on/off throttle situations. A turbo setup will never have the same throttle response as a SC since you're driving the SC directly off the crank pulley. It's a trade-off. SC's are going to have better throttle response while making full boost closer to redline and producing less torque. Turbos just have more steps in the process to making boost, and it shows up as lag. I'm not going to touch the Stillen vs GTM SC issue.

Quote for truth. All turbo setups have on/off/on throttle lag.

Chuck33079 · 02-01-2013, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh0velMan

Quote for truth. All turbo setups have on/off/on throttle lag.

Yep. Unless you're running some sort of anti-lag setup, in which case you have either bigger balls than I do, or an unlimited turbo budget.

irondoc · 02-01-2013, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elperuano

Might not be every Stillen owner but the MAJORITY yes.
Money to power it just doesn't make sense. Ur at 394 n the highest you saw NA was 340. Compare what that NA paid to what u paid for 50 more hp.
Another thing you said was SC is instant power? At 3.6-3.7k rpm I'm at full boost. I'm barely under that rpm every shift if running the car hard so it's almost instant boost every shift after.
There are much better SC kits out there in my opinion. As always just research before pulling trigger. I like doing things right the first time to save money in my pocket and wear on my car. Too many times I've read a Stillen owner upgrading this and that, adding this and that and every change requires another dyno tuning session which is more money and wear on motor.

hmm... first off I have never seen anyone other than one report with anywhere near 340 whp non-FI.
Additionally high flow cats and test pipes are for track use - so that is off the table. So subtract roughly 10-20 whp.

In real life - If you look at claimed numbers for the usual suspect non-FI mods you get for cost/HP gains -
Exhaust – roughly 10-20 whp for $1270 plus install
CAI – 12-20 whp, $530 plus install
Headers – maybe 15 whp – 550 plus install
Our car makes 270whp unmodified, so with all of the above you get maybe 45 whp – or 315 total for around $2400 with plus tax and installation, arguably 4K said and done, or $90/whp.

Stillen SC at $7800 for 125 whp is $62/whp – I like that ratio better.

Really I don't see any comparison in power. FI is pricey and if you look at my recent thread Stillen SC long term reports you will see reports so far of close to 500whp with minimal problems.

elperuano · 02-01-2013, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irondoc

hmm... first off I have never seen anyone other than one report with anywhere near 340 whp non-FI.
Additionally high flow cats and test pipes are for track use - so that is off the table. So subtract roughly 10-20 whp.

In real life - If you look at claimed numbers for the usual suspect non-FI mods you get for cost/HP gains -
Exhaust – roughly 10-20 whp for $1270 plus install
CAI – 12-20 whp, $530 plus install
Headers – maybe 15 whp – 550 plus install
Our car makes 270whp unmodified, so with all of the above you get maybe 45 whp – or 315 total for around $2400 with plus tax and installation, arguably 4K said and done, or $90/whp.

Stillen SC at $7800 for 125 whp is $62/whp – I like that ratio better.

Really I don't see any comparison in power. FI is pricey and if you look at my recent thread Stillen SC long term reports you will see reports so far of close to 500whp with minimal problems.

I forgot about the "carb or smog" thingy. Ur right about that, but any Stillen SC making anywhere near 500hp is not using the Stillen tune therefore the "warranty" gets voided.

elperuano · 02-01-2013, 11:18 AM

It's barely noticeable IMHO. It takes as long as it takes my gas pedal to hit the floor. On WOT I don't even feel it in between shifts. When cruising and I wanna make the BOV go off yea I can feel it but I'm cruising not running hard. I think you guys r giving the "lag" way too much credit. I'll still take the half second delay over that particular SC anyday.

Sh0velMan · 02-01-2013, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elperuano

It's barely noticeable IMHO. It takes as long as it takes my gas pedal to hit the floor. On WOT I don't even feel it in between shifts. When cruising and I wanna make the BOV go off yea I can feel it but I'm cruising not running hard. I think you guys r giving the "lag" way too much credit. I'll still take the half second delay over that particular SC anyday.

Well, yeah. lol

Chuck33079 · 02-01-2013, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elperuano

It's barely noticeable IMHO. It takes as long as it takes my gas pedal to hit the floor. On WOT I don't even feel it in between shifts. When cruising and I wanna make the BOV go off yea I can feel it but I'm cruising not running hard. I think you guys r giving the "lag" way too much credit. I'll still take the half second delay over that particular SC anyday.

You're right, it's barely there. But it's still there and some people prefer a SC for a snappier throttle and instant boost. There's a lot to be said about instant, linear response. I thought really hard about a SC, but I know that I'd end up wanting more later down the line. I didn't want to paint myself into a corner. The OP sounds like he's perfectly happy with his setup. That's great. If he ends up needing more power later, he can swap pullies, injectors and re-tune. It's not as easy as turning the knob on my boost controller, but it's not that hard.

02-01-2013, 10:28 AM	#7 (permalink)
elperuano A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Southwest FL Posts: 1,374 Drives: G37S Rep Power: 29	Might not be every Stillen owner but the MAJORITY yes. Money to power it just doesn't make sense. Ur at 394 n the highest you saw NA was 340. Compare what that NA paid to what u paid for 50 more hp. Another thing you said was SC is instant power? At 3.6-3.7k rpm I'm at full boost. I'm barely under that rpm every shift if running the car hard so it's almost instant boost every shift after. There are much better SC kits out there in my opinion. As always just research before pulling trigger. I like doing things right the first time to save money in my pocket and wear on my car. Too many times I've read a Stillen owner upgrading this and that, adding this and that and every change requires another dyno tuning session which is more money and wear on motor. tomnavone and FernDiggidy like this.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Stillen Supercharger	Skarekrow	Forced Induction	32	12-17-2012 05:40 PM
[FOR SALE] Stillen Supercharger kit. Like New!!	king12sky	Parts for sale (Private Classifieds)	32	12-01-2012 12:03 AM
[FOR SALE] FS/FT Like New Stillen Supercharger kit	Ipl 370gt	Parts for sale (Private Classifieds)	5	11-04-2012 06:54 PM
stillen supercharger with hfc	chases2302	Forced Induction	2	09-07-2012 08:03 AM
Stillen or gtm supercharger?	germanattitud	Forced Induction	34	08-07-2011 01:47 PM

02-02-2013, 07:40 PM	#5 (permalink)
irondoc Base Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Ohio Posts: 99 Drives: 13 370 6MT sport tou Rep Power: 13	[QUOTE=elperuano;2141180]It's amazing that the inferior Stillen kit still gets this much play. ...Once people realized Stillen tune was garbage... Elperuano - Just wondering here. Not challenging you or talking trash - I just want to know what exactly is "garbage" about the Stillen tune? Is it optimizing power output? Is it reliability? Why is the tune bad in your opinion?

02-01-2013, 11:18 AM	#13 (permalink)
elperuano A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Southwest FL Posts: 1,374 Drives: G37S Rep Power: 29	It's barely noticeable IMHO. It takes as long as it takes my gas pedal to hit the floor. On WOT I don't even feel it in between shifts. When cruising and I wanna make the BOV go off yea I can feel it but I'm cruising not running hard. I think you guys r giving the "lag" way too much credit. I'll still take the half second delay over that particular SC anyday.