Engine Build Thread
 

Some of us discussed building up an engine using a spare or used block. I honestly don't know anything about building engines, but picking engine components is as intriguing as picking computer components. All of this is pretty much overkill, but I'll continue to maintain the OEM block for as long as I can. I don't have time to maintain this thread, but perhaps one can put together a FAQ or something.

Questions:

• Should I get 95.5 or 96 mm though I want to keep stock bore diameter after honing the cylinder walls? 95.5
• Are valvetrain upgrades necessary? If anything, it'll be nice to be able to have minor headroom for an additional 500 RPM (keeping in mind VVEL limits). This engine might be subjected to some occasional track use (for testing). How about valves and valve seats that can handle boost?
• Some components are listed OEM and race type. Race components sounds like a good idea and gives the impression it can handle the abuse, but isn't it designed to be replaced often (e.g., not for daily driving longevity)? I'm wondering about which bearings to use. OEM bearings, but treated.
• Assuming the crank is healthy, what additional work is necessary and how do tolerances work with new bearings? Is polishing and knife edging necessary?

Below is a wishlist for an FI supporting build for daily driving and occasional track use (for testing). The goal is to maintain a stock displacement, and this is a fairly basic build to support reasonable amounts of power (550-600 whp max on 91 octane). Consider this a Stage 0 build:
Engine

• Wiseco Pistons/Rings 95.5 mm 9.0:1 CR with upgraded wrist pins (WPC Treated; Calico Top Coat)
• Wiseco K1 Connecting Rods (WPC Treated)
• OEM Rod Bearings (WPC Treated)
• OEM Main Bearings (WPC Treated)

Head

• ARP VQ37VHR L19 Head Studs
• ARP VQ35/37 Main Studs
• Cosworth Head Gaskets

Fuel and Ignition

• Injector Dynamics ID725
• Viton O-Rings
• ??? Insulators
• HKS Racing Iridium Spark Plugs

Other

• GTM VR38 Lower Manifold Adapter and Fuel Rails
• OEM VR38 Intake Collector and Engine Cover
• OEM Gasket Kit
• OEM Timing Belt Kit
• Ceramic Coated Parts

Here's an interesting link:
WPC - Metal Surface Treatment / Micro Shot Peening

I haven't looked into costs, but maybe this is an alternative to coating some parts.

Now this thread is more like it :stirthepot:


wheres mr squeeze at on this one?

I saw his posts and video on another forum. His car is so sick! I don't think I'll be pushing as much power as his car.

BTW, I saw a product for the VQ. It's a set of aftermarket spark plug coils. It is supposed to produce a stronger spark for improved torque and response. Sounds way overkill. :confused:

Also, I wonder if a NISMO oil pump is necessary. Is it possible to take one apart to treat or rebuild it? WPC can treat oil pump gears.

Excellent thread idea! Sub'd for sure!

Sub'd. Interesting stuff!

P your always thinking!!

Subb'ddd

Thanks! Funny how we've not seen a thread to share build ideas and recommendations for this platform. These ideas can help us avoid overkill and save money.

Definitely a great idea. As you said, there haven't been many, if any, topics on our platform, and to me it seems that maybe the car is still young in the scheme of things. I am sure that eventually as time rolls forward, new methods and ways to attack such builds will become more and more apparent and this thread could be a superb starting point.

Do you happen to have a link for this VQ specific product? Sounds very similar to the HKS Twin Power DLI, or ignition booster "spark booster"

Good stuff here! I've yet to actually see build threads myself detailing what parts were used in the engine. Mr. Squeeze could chime in the best since he's running a built motor and actually using its potential.
Sub'd cuz this is the route I'll be taking soon!

I think this is the one:
Z-1 Performance Automotive Services Inc. - Okada Project Coils 350Z/G35/370Z/G37

Found a thread:
http://www.the370z.com/engine-drivet...da-plasma.html

your criteria sounds similar to what I was going for with my build, heres my setup:

wiseco 10:1 96mm, coated
K1 Rods w/ARP 2000 bolts (Carrillo actually owns K1)
oem rod/main bearings, calico coated (no one makes aftermarket for our engine)
ARP L19 head studs
oem head gaskets
CSC Radiator
Z1 Motor mounts
HKS spark plugs (already on the car)
Aeromotive 340lph fuel pump (upgrading from walbro 255)
.86 turbine housings "stage 2" (upgrading from .64 "stage 1")
injectors I'm undecided on, I currently have bosch 650's but I know they won't handle 600whp. I'm going to break in the engine on my current tune and then upgrade the injectors/retune in spring.

theres nothing else you need to do for reliable 600whp, leave the head alone

as far as machine work goes, find a good machine shop and they will:

inspect the block, bore + hone
inspect the crank, checking for micro-fractures. polish.
spec the bearings, line hone the block/rods if necessary as oem bearings only come in a few sizes
balance the pistons/rods, then balance the full rotating assembly. for peace of mind I recommend having your assembly balanced with your crank pulley and your clutch/flywheel/pressure plate combo.

Good stuff! I'm planning on doin sumthin similar. For injectors prolly ID. Cjm fuel system upgrade also. Do u think ur exhaust will be a restrictor when tryin to get 600+?

fuel return won't hurt, but I'm confident with a 340 pump and properly sized injectors I won't have any flow issues going for 600. As for exhaust, with .86 turbines and a free flowing 2.5" 600 should not be an issue, again a 3" won't hurt I just don't think its going to be necessary. I made 500whp at 12psi with a less than ideal flowing 2 3/8" exhaust and 2" restrictors plates at the test pipes (boost creep fix).

Cool, I'll definitely be checking ur thread how it goes. If I don't have to spend the extra on fuel return then I'd like to keep it in my pocket. Good luck

also, you'll need a crapload of seals/gaskets for the engine rebuild. courtesy parts offers a rebuild gasket kit for about $215 but it includes head gaskets and exhaust manifold gaskets. I got my head gaskets from Z1 so I ended up piecing together the rest of the parts list for the engine gaskets:

EDIT: updated the spreadsheet to include part numbers for oil pump/pickup and all the timing chains/guides/tensioners. depending on your engine mileage you could get away with reusing these components, but since its all open im replacing everything.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...DMWtBT0E#gid=0

Wow! Thanks! One of the most useful posts ever!

Yay! Aftermarket coils useless, so no need to spend money there.

If I end up building, I might end up with the GTX turbos. Plus, I'd like to clean and ceramic coat some parts that are being reused.

Good to know on the bearings. GTM offers "race" bearings. Not sure what the benefits are.

If a return kit is not used, any plans to use an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator?

Man, I still have the VR38 intake plenum. It'll be nice to see someone release the lower manifold by the time I decide to build. :)

[EDIT] Look up 73draggy on YouTube. He has videos detailing his VR38 build. It is so awesome.

GTX turbos are pretty much overkill for our setup, I considered the GTX2860R, but the flow characteristics are pretty much the same until you get to 20-30psi which is overkill for a max of 600whp, with e85 or a race fuel setup, or even meth, i think those turbos could do close to 700whp

I forgot to mention I ceramic coated my manifolds, turbine housings, and down pipes. I would recommend doing it if you can afford it. also got turbo blankets. less heat in the engine bay.

the GTM race bearings are oem bearings that are calico coated

you cannot use an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator without a fuel return kit. with our VVEL setup the only thing that its good for is bumping up the base fuel pressure, which I don't believe will be necessary with the 340lph pump.

Gotcha... I guess we can see what WPC can do for our OEM bearings. Heck, I don't even know the cost haha.

I was thinking the GTX would give us better response over the GT. Ron has really nice gains using less boost, and I think it spools up a bit quicker. [shrugs]

the GTX is pretty much identical to the GT until you get to about 20psi, take a look at the compressor maps:

http://www.atpturbo.com/root/release...s-GT2860RS.jpg

now this doesn't tell the entire story, but essentially 0-18psi on both turbos is flowing the same air and making the same power. they are also the same size trim and will spool pretty identical. where the GTX shines is past ~18psi, thats where the GT turbo is "over spinning" and blowing hot air, people typically compensate by running **** loads of meth or race gas (think evo with stock turbo and 30psi). its incredibly inefficient but if you keep the charge cool and pull timing you can make more power. the GTX series is designed to flow well even past 20psi and thus good for more power.

as for bearings, just get your oem bearings calico coated. its very popular with race teams and high end build shops. it cost around $150 i want to say, I have the receipt in my car I can check for you tomorrow.

Sounds like your going for low end power here. nothing with top end. Just from what it sounds like after reading all your stuff, kinda.

I'm also doing a build on my g37. So far the block and heads been traveling to few places within the US. If you want more boost out of our motors, i recommend partially closing out the open deck. I would go with CP pistons over weisco. The main factor you really want to worry about is the pin. Spending an extra few 100 bucks on it is a life saver in the long run. But really depends on your power your trying to reach. I've talk to ferrera and got a custom order with the valvetrain(the whole thing, valves, springs, retainers, etc.) its around 2ish G's. Only problem you have to have a distributor to order to get the "discounts" on it. Shipping it to TX was 300 bucks. Yikes.
For fuel delivery im not really thinking anything about the fuel return system. Instead im planning to go with 2 external fuel pumps from bosch. Stole some ideas from the 2jz guys. i figure it could work on our cars, but who knows i could be speaking out of my ***.

anyways here are is all the build crap that i have so far.

darton sleeves (discount from john at DS for 1020)
partially closed deck ( part of the service from DS)
CP pistons/ rods (about 4 g's)
two 6262 turbos with .86 ar (about 3g's)
ferrera valvetrain (2200ish)
1000cc injectors( thanks to richard and omar at uprev got it cheap)
custom manifold (top mount set up) (2000)
Greddy oil pan upgrade (375 from japan. took 5 months to get here)
34 row oil cooler ( 600 got ripped off from GTM)
Radiator( i forget but the owner at CSF at sema 2 years ago hooked it up it was cheap)
Greddy infometer (Free)
custom made rear diffuser (FLOW TESTED!) (msg me. all testing done in the east coast)
driveshaft( 410)
and MT's to plant these bitches. (2 285/17/ and uhh something was 400 a tire or something.)

The car isnt finished or assembled yet.

Oh also the head works. (1500-2500? never got locked down on the price)

Oh and Aeromotive 340lph that **** craps out. this was tested at tx2k12. by few of the guys. so i dont know.


Well thats all the info i have on my car right about now. hope i have contributed!


Oh also been talking to eric at haltec to see if they have something going on for our cars. nothing yet. just figure that be news to share if anyone is interested in haltec. I know I am!

^ Waaay overkill

Great thread Digi,

I have started my build plans and had similar questions. I contacted Squeeze and he helped me out quite a bit. Almost everything he told me was already stated in the thread by esfourteen.

I would like to see a parts list/price list for this 600HP Pump gas build. Also where we can get the best prices on the items.

I dont want to go to a shop with "an open check book" tell them what I want to do and get over built. Like kpjc4eva if thats what you wanted great, but that seems wayyyyyy more than what im trying to achieve.

simple motor build for me
15.5cc wiseco piston (9.1cr) forged
eagle forged rods
new bearings
arp head bolts
upgraded to a thicker head gasket droping cr to 8.9 i believe

^ that exactly what we need for 700 WHP..

This is all great, and so much good info but... any extra precautions needed to ensure transmission is supported? I have not yet seen anyone using special dog tooth/upgraded gears in their trannys for 2-4th for instance.

Or is ours stout enough as is with the more common upgrades?

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 2 via tapatalk

It's usually torque that destroys transmissions. I've been told that the transmission should be capable of handling over 600 ft/lbs with the appropriate clutch.

What mm are those pistons you went with ?

96mm
sorry man its 96mm we went .5 overbore to clean the sleeves up

Around how much does it cost for built motor?

There are overkill builds, so don't hesitate to share since we can cherry pick some ideas from there.

Some of you pretty much answered my question about piston diameter, so I'll stick with 95.5.

I'm researching WPC versus Calico coatings. Supposedly, WPC can strengthen the metal and provide a better oiling surface. It is not a coating treatment. For surfaces not subjected to friction, perhaps some sort of coating should help? Just need to find a balance. [EDIT] Possibly WPC treated pistons with Calico top coat.

Okay, so if the valve train doesn't need upgrades I can retain the stock rev limit and $2k+ worth of parts and labor might not be justifiable. Since the valves aren't quite subjected to frictional stress, how about heat stress? Plus, I don't think I hear much about valve failure. Maybe the valves can be coated, and that we can get better seals? For my purpose, it's still a daily driver so it won't be subjected to 24 hours of Le Mans scenario haha.

cost me $8700 fully built blueprint installed total that included 1400 bucks for new vvel that i may or may not have needed and my dam 2012 summer with no car ( so not planned but its water under the bridge now)
and as you pointed out elperuano no were near my motors ability she should be able to hold 700+ whp and i am sitting at just over 400whp
lotta over head for me

ps. for me it was get another motor and drop it in or get the one i had built for a few more bucks so i just went with the rebuild
since leaving ford i dont fine much cheap about nissan

its 96mm not 95.5 we did a .5 overbore since the motor did blow to help clean the sleeves up (ie scratches on the walls)

What we need is:

Forged Pistons
Wiseco VQ37 Forged Piston Sets
Forged/Billet Rods
K1 Technologies Connecting Rods for 09-10 infiniti g37 Import Image Racing
APR L19 Head Studs
ARP VQ37VHR L19 Head Studs
APR Main Studs
GTM Motorsports*::*ENGINE INTERNALS*::*ARP VQ35/37 Main Stud kit
Thicker Head gasket
Cosworth MLS Performance Head Gaskets for 370Z/G37 - Injected Performance
And buy new bearings and coat them in any local shop
Some high cc injectors and how flow fuel pump.

Now of course you can choose different brand of forged internal like eagle and CP pistons or what ever you feel comfortable with but for me they are all the same.. forged is forged

One thing I wanna suggest also is try not to bore you block.. I mean seriously.. if boring it will not harm the ridged of the sleeves, Nissan would be proudly done that from factory for extra hp/tq for free

8700 for built motor and install plus the VVEL. That's good to know thanks, time to start saving my pennies!
Also g37s that is pretty much the blue print! Hopefully we start seeing builds like this soon! Kinda makes me wish I would have gone built motor from the beginning. Having just installed TT and driving 8 hours for tune, it's gonna suck to go thru it all again.
Side question, up to what psi is the stage 2 Gtm TT kit good for before its "over-spinning" and blowing hot air. I'm at 12 psi now and I'd like to turn it up some with built motor but I'm wondering if I'll have to upgrade to stage 3 with a built motor.

12 psi on Daily drive?

:driving: Yes sir!
Love my tune, 5k miles. DD with 12 lbs.

That's nuts on a stock block haha. I have my MBC set to about 8-9 PSI, and on a daily basis my engine hardly sees 5 PSI (half throttle). Only times I have the need to max it out is for a few spirited tests or showing off to my friends with a test drive.

I'm more worried about spinning the bearings than snapping a rod. [shrugs]

I definitely won't bore the block, but to hone it and possibly run 96 mm pistons. That's it. Are the pins treated or coated in any fashion?

OK, I probably don't see the need for GTX turbos then. I wouldn't mind getting new/updated internals before re-installing, though. :)

dam i am tring to make that stillen kit work wish i did more research from the start. 1 step forward 2 steps back. now i have to save up for the turbo kit and hope to sell the stillen kit for atleast 3500.00 to get some kinda money back it was 9200 to buy,install and tune it