Newb FI question

bldg636 · 11-14-2012, 06:56 AM

Quick question for all my much more experienced fellow members:

I'm looking to make my first mod to my '11z, being a Fast Intentions non-res exhaust. I'm planning to go forced induction with a year (maybe a little longer, depending on funds), and was wondering if this exhaust will be compatible with a twin turbo system, or if i'll need to change the exhaust when i make the forced induction switch. I'd rather not have to buy a second exhaust if I don't have to, and would like to get one that is compatible whether my car is NA or FI. Could someone advise me on this? Is there any other bolt ons that I need to make sure I get a certain type for forced induction compatibility (i.e. intakes, etc.) Thanks in advance for the help, and my apologies ahead of time if this is an ignorant question that I should already know the answer to.

Thanks
Ross

DEpointfive0 · 11-14-2012, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bldg636

Quick question for all my much more experienced fellow members:

I'm looking to make my first mod to my '11z, being a Fast Intentions non-res exhaust. I'm planning to go forced induction with a year (maybe a little longer, depending on funds), and was wondering if this exhaust will be compatible with a twin turbo system, or if i'll need to change the exhaust when i make the forced induction switch. I'd rather not have to buy a second exhaust if I don't have to, and would like to get one that is compatible whether my car is NA or FI. Could someone advise me on this? Is there any other bolt ons that I need to make sure I get a certain type for forced induction compatibility (i.e. intakes, etc.) Thanks in advance for the help, and my apologies ahead of time if this is an ignorant question that I should already know the answer to.

Thanks
Ross

Depends if you're going turbo or supercharged.

If you're going turbo, have Tony at FI make you a 3" exhaust, while you're N/A you'll "make less power" than if you had a 2.5" diameter exhaust.
It depends if you believe a N/A needs back pressure or not.
Generally, the more you open the pipes whether it's intake or exhaust you lose a bit of low end torque and HP and gain it back on the top end.

If you go turbo don't buy cats, because I believe most turbo kits are text pipe or straight pipe set ups, I could be wrong, don't quote me.
But for supercharger you CAN use HFCs, you just have to realize you're putting more stress on them, they will get MUCH hotter and will probably break at one point causing a world of other problems...

Stillen does do Supercharger installs with their 2.5" piped standard exhaust, but I'd feel more comfortable with a 3" if I were you

Don't buy an intake, Motordyne intake manifold, underdrive OR lightweight pulley, and don't buy headers, they'll all have to be taken off and not reused in any way (you COULD use the Motordyne, but if you're going FI, the $500 you spend isn't worth the minimal HP it MIGHT give once you're hooked up. Same with headers if you go supercharged, the money and hassle isn't worth the HP you MIGHT gain)

theDreamer · 11-14-2012, 08:50 AM

Actually, if he goes SC he will want to stick with a 2.5" exhaust, a 3" is worthless unless you are moving to a turbo environment.
For turbo you can use your exhaust you have, but if you want to move above 480whp you will need to move to a 3" exhaust. Headers are good with a SC, both short or long tube and are a solid investment but not if you are going for a turbo setup. On the front side I would stick with stock for now as with most kits you get everything you need. Intake, piping, etc.

Chuck33079 · 11-14-2012, 09:09 AM

Save your money and just buy the 3" exhaust when you do the rest of the FI build. If you need noise, buy a used cat back off the forum to tide you over. If you just need something to tinker with until you go FI, sort out the suspension. It sucks to buy parts that turn out to be not what you needed.

Boosted Performance · 11-14-2012, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theDreamer

For turbo you can use your exhaust you have, but if you want to move above 480whp you will need to move to a 3" exhaust.

This is not true at all.

The dual 2.5" F.I exhaust will be just fine with a properly flowing turbo system. I have customers making over 650+whp with dual 2.5" exhaust systems (350z single turbo), and there is still room for more. The test mule for the twin scroll kit made 550whp with no sighn of slowing down.

Dyno graphs and videos are here:

Boosted Performance single turbo results

There is a big misconception here (forced indction section) about exhaust sizing and the ability of a free flowing 2.5" dual exhaust system to make power.

I am confidend that a 6766 T4 1.32 a/r twin scroll turbo kit will make close to 700whp (or deep in to the 600's) with a proper build and a dual 2.5" exhaust system.

theDreamer · 11-14-2012, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boosted Performance

This is not true at all.

The dual 2.5" F.I exhaust will be just fine with a properly flowing turbo system. I have customers making over 650+whp with dual 2.5" exhaust systems (350z single turbo), and there is still room for more. The test mule for the twin scroll kit made 550whp with no sighn of slowing down.

Dyno graphs and videos are here:

Boosted Performance single turbo results

There is a big misconception here (forced indction section) about exhaust sizing and the ability of a free flowing 2.5" dual exhaust system to make power.

I am confidend that a 6766 T4 1.32 a/r twin scroll turbo kit will make close to 700whp (or deep in to the 600's) with a proper build and a dual 2.5" exhaust system.

I was not saying it is impossible to use a 2.5" exhaust and make more power, I was saying you probably need to. There are multiple cars on this forum who made 470-490whp with a 2.5" exhaust and upgrading helped free up HP & TQ. Besides that it is not all about HP/TQ when adding this much power to the car. You must consider heat exchange, flow rates of the turbines v exhaust gases, and more. Can it be done with 2.5" sure, but it clearly has been shown on the Z34 platform with a good 2.5" v 3.0" exhaust that the 3.0" is clearly a better choice. Now if you build a full system from front to back around 2.5" and make great power, congrats.

Also, I don't think there is a misconception on this forum. I think it comes from the education of many known people here who have done larger builds on other platforms and VQ motors that show & say a 3.0" exhaust will be more beneficial all around.

Z-Girl 12 · 11-14-2012, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEpointfive0

Depends if you're going turbo or supercharged.

If you're going turbo, have Tony at FI make you a 3" exhaust, while you're N/A you'll "make less power" than if you had a 2.5" diameter exhaust.
It depends if you believe a N/A needs back pressure or not.
Generally, the more you open the pipes whether it's intake or exhaust you lose a bit of low end torque and HP and gain it back on the top end.

If you go turbo don't buy cats, because I believe most turbo kits are text pipe or straight pipe set ups, I could be wrong, don't quote me.
But for supercharger you CAN use HFCs, you just have to realize you're putting more stress on them, they will get MUCH hotter and will probably break at one point causing a world of other problems...

Stillen does do Supercharger installs with their 2.5" piped standard exhaust, but I'd feel more comfortable with a 3" if I were you

Don't buy an intake, Motordyne intake manifold, underdrive OR lightweight pulley, and don't buy headers, they'll all have to be taken off and not reused in any way (you COULD use the Motordyne, but if you're going FI, the $500 you spend isn't worth the minimal HP it MIGHT give once you're hooked up. Same with headers if you go supercharged, the money and hassle isn't worth the HP you MIGHT gain)

Bldg636, I am excited about your modding progress. Enjoy every moment!!! On another note, not trying to thread jack but since it was mentioned:

DEpointIV, I thought it was totally in my mind that I lost initial/low end torque when I installed my intakes and cbe. Now I see that it is not, why the loss in low end torque? And is there anyway to balance it out or get it back without turbos/sc and leaving the mods. I'm just curious, I miss it. Is it possible to have the best of both worlds without FI? I definitely see the difference once I climb higher into the RPM band but I miss the low end torque for around town driving. Thanks for any info you provide!

DEpointfive0 · 11-14-2012, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z-Girl 12

Bldg636, I am excited about your modding progress. Enjoy every moment!!! On another note, not trying to thread jack but since it was mentioned:

DEpointIV, I thought it was totally in my mind that I lost initial/low end torque when I installed my intakes and cbe. Now I see that it is not, why the loss in low end torque? And is there anyway to balance it out or get it back without turbos/sc and leaving the mods. I'm just curious, I miss it. Is it possible to have the best of both worlds without FI? I definitely see the difference once I climb higher into the RPM band but I miss the low end torque for around town driving. Thanks for any info you provide!

Not really... You can go from a Stillen G3 intake to shorter intakes for a peppier response, but your gains will be a lot less overall because you now have a WAI/HAI (warm air intake/hot air intake)
If you want to feel lower end, or responsiveness, under drive crank pulley... I have the Stillen because I WANTED the 20%... And it's great! And technically you should gain a gain across the WHOLE RPM range.

You CAN also get the Motordyne intake plenum, now it will rob you of a few, 2-5hp above like 5500-6000RPM, but you'll gain a lot midrange, +10hp/torque

By the way, if you didn't disconnect the battery when you installed your intakes it's very possible your ECU isn't adjusting for the mod as well as it SHOULD... If your car is used to a set of perimeters it takes much longer for it to adjust than if you reset the ECU. (The only "quick" changes your ECU makes is to pull timing when you're overheating, and pulling timing if you're getting engine knock from crap gas, still takes a while to go back to advancing the timing for your high quality gas)
If you're going to try a reset your ECU, please make sure to disconnect the Negative!

I'm glad I could be of some help or insight, and man oh man I feel like a car geek for the essay I typed on my phone, LOL! Just trying to help out the community!!!

Z-Girl 12 · 11-14-2012, 03:10 PM

Your "essay" is very much appreciated! I have had the intakes on for about 3 weeks now...I feel the increase in horsepower but just at the top. My technician said the instructions didn't mention anything about resetting the ECU after the install so he didn't do anything of the sort. I'll take it to him tomorrow and see if I can tell a difference. Thanks a bunch the very helpful info!

DEpointfive0 · 11-14-2012, 03:14 PM

I realized that I didn't fully answer your question... Why the loss is low end hp/torque, to be honest, I'm not 100% sure, I can speculate that a freer flowing exhaust gives you a bit of a loss because you're losing back pressure... At the same time, back pressure on a N/A is bull, there is no NEED for it, I bet it's more that the engine works better under stress... (Reason why people put like high pressure coolant caps). On the intakes, it's not 100% the temperature of the air, it's the FLOW that helps... And I'm sorry to anyone that has the HPS or similar intake tubes, they don't do anything, since the accordion is AFTER the MAF, it doesn't help...
Getting back to it, I think the reason you may have more of a power loss or lack of initial power is because the air has to physically move further, so short rams are better for that, but the temperature under the hood is ridiculous! So IMO It's better to have drop ins than short ram. (The stock intake boxes' ducting is actually quite good at getting cooler fresh air...) When you install the Takedas or Stillen G3's you run your piping THROUGH the stock intake box inlets.

DEpointfive0 · 11-14-2012, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z-Girl 12

Your "essay" is very much appreciated! I have had the intakes on for about 3 weeks now...I feel the increase in horsepower but just at the top. My technician said the instructions didn't mention anything about resetting the ECU after the install so he didn't do anything of the sort. I'll take it to him tomorrow and see if I can tell a difference. Thanks a bunch the very helpful info!

Lol, cool, glad I could help!

You need to get a boyfriend, and/or I am FULLY confident in your ability to disconnect your battery yourself, lol.
You can even borrow tools from most auto parts stores

If you need help, shoot me a text, I'll show you what you need to do, it literally takes... 3 minutes? Actually, Ray Charles could do it in less than 3 minutes, so I am confident in your skills! Lol

(310)eight nine three-4207

Z-Girl 12 · 11-14-2012, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEpointfive0

Lol, cool, glad I could help!

You need to get a boyfriend, and/or I am FULLY confident in your ability to disconnect your battery yourself, lol.
You can even borrow tools from most auto parts stores

If you need help, shoot me a text, I'll show you what you need to do, it literally takes... 3 minutes? Actually, Ray Charles could do it in less than 3 minutes, so I am confident in your skills! Lol

(310)eight nine three-4207

Ok...Yes I need a boyfriend I'm working on that LOL.

But I have NO tools...my tech is on my way to work and handles everything on my Z so its all good. In my honda/acura days I use to change my own oil, brakes, wipers, filters etc, but NEVER touched the battery. Batteries scare me for some weird reason, I have this paranoya of it exploding in my face or something. I'm almost as scared of batteries as I am of dogs and I have NEVER had a bad experience with either. Weird I know

The intakes have been on for a few weeks now and it probably won't make any difference but I will give it a shot. Again thanks for the help!!!

Mitco39 · 11-14-2012, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEpointfive0

I realized that I didn't fully answer your question... Why the loss is low end hp/torque, to be honest, I'm not 100% sure, I can speculate that a freer flowing exhaust gives you a bit of a loss because you're losing back pressure... At the same time, back pressure on a N/A is bull, there is no NEED for it, I bet it's more that the engine works better under stress... (Reason why people put like high pressure coolant caps). On the intakes, it's not 100% the temperature of the air, it's the FLOW that helps... And I'm sorry to anyone that has the HPS or similar intake tubes, they don't do anything, since the accordion is AFTER the MAF, it doesn't help...
Getting back to it, I think the reason you may have more of a power loss or lack of initial power is because the air has to physically move further, so short rams are better for that, but the temperature under the hood is ridiculous! So IMO It's better to have drop ins than short ram. (The stock intake boxes' ducting is actually quite good at getting cooler fresh air...) When you install the Takedas or Stillen G3's you run your piping THROUGH the stock intake box inlets.

Backpressure is used on 2 stroke engines to help keep both the fresh air from exiting the cylinder and to create a scavaging effect to help boost the amount of fresh air in the cylinder.

4 stroke backpressure talk...

Exhaust backpressure the myth - ThumperTalk

fuct · 11-14-2012, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z-Girl 12

Ok...Yes I need a boyfriend I'm working on that LOL.

But I have NO tools...my tech is on my way to work and handles everything on my Z so its all good. In my honda/acura days I use to change my own oil, brakes, wipers, filters etc, but NEVER touched the battery. Batteries scare me for some weird reason, I have this paranoya of it exploding in my face or something. I'm almost as scared of batteries as I am of dogs and I have NEVER had a bad experience with either. Weird I know

The intakes have been on for a few weeks now and it probably won't make any difference but I will give it a shot. Again thanks for the help!!!

buy this one!!!!

aaaaaahhhh!!!!!

Z-Girl 12 · 11-14-2012, 04:42 PM

LOL repped!

11-14-2012, 06:56 AM	#1 (permalink)
bldg636 Base Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Florida Posts: 141 Drives: Nissan 370z Rep Power: 13	Newb FI question Quick question for all my much more experienced fellow members: I'm looking to make my first mod to my '11z, being a Fast Intentions non-res exhaust. I'm planning to go forced induction with a year (maybe a little longer, depending on funds), and was wondering if this exhaust will be compatible with a twin turbo system, or if i'll need to change the exhaust when i make the forced induction switch. I'd rather not have to buy a second exhaust if I don't have to, and would like to get one that is compatible whether my car is NA or FI. Could someone advise me on this? Is there any other bolt ons that I need to make sure I get a certain type for forced induction compatibility (i.e. intakes, etc.) Thanks in advance for the help, and my apologies ahead of time if this is an ignorant question that I should already know the answer to. Thanks Ross __________________ Ross '11 370z Just getting started . . .

11-14-2012, 08:50 AM	#3 (permalink)
theDreamer A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 30,879 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 4210	Actually, if he goes SC he will want to stick with a 2.5" exhaust, a 3" is worthless unless you are moving to a turbo environment. For turbo you can use your exhaust you have, but if you want to move above 480whp you will need to move to a 3" exhaust. Headers are good with a SC, both short or long tube and are a solid investment but not if you are going for a turbo setup. On the front side I would stick with stock for now as with most kits you get everything you need. Intake, piping, etc. DEpointfive0 likes this. __________________ theDreamer's Z // Fast Intentions // Uprev // GTM // HKS // TEIN theDreamer's Silvia // URAS // GREDDY Houston Zs // Facebook // Twitter // Instagram

11-14-2012, 09:09 AM	#4 (permalink)
Chuck33079 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Houston Posts: 12,265 Drives: 2011 370ztt Rep Power: 29539	Save your money and just buy the 3" exhaust when you do the rest of the FI build. If you need noise, buy a used cat back off the forum to tide you over. If you just need something to tinker with until you go FI, sort out the suspension. It sucks to buy parts that turn out to be not what you needed. Mr&Mrs and DEpointfive0 like this. __________________ 2011 MB Touring-Sport-6sp-Nav/GTM TT/FI TT TDX/JTran/Kosmic/Eibach/Hotchkis/SPC/CSF/RPS/SoThatsWhereAllMyMoneyWent

11-14-2012, 03:10 PM	#9 (permalink)
Z-Girl 12 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Florida Posts: 4,105 Drives: Spirited Rep Power: 11716	Your "essay" is very much appreciated! I have had the intakes on for about 3 weeks now...I feel the increase in horsepower but just at the top. My technician said the instructions didn't mention anything about resetting the ECU after the install so he didn't do anything of the sort. I'll take it to him tomorrow and see if I can tell a difference. Thanks a bunch the very helpful info! __________________ 2012 Z-SOLD 2014 Nismo #565 Fast Intentions CBE/HFC/Swift/SPC/RJM/H&R-15/20mm/Z1 CAI/Headers/Intake Manifold w/Uprev Tune 328.31whp/263.64tq

11-14-2012, 04:42 PM	#15 (permalink)
Z-Girl 12 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Florida Posts: 4,105 Drives: Spirited Rep Power: 11716	LOL repped! __________________ 2012 Z-SOLD 2014 Nismo #565 Fast Intentions CBE/HFC/Swift/SPC/RJM/H&R-15/20mm/Z1 CAI/Headers/Intake Manifold w/Uprev Tune 328.31whp/263.64tq

11-14-2012, 03:14 PM	#10 (permalink)
DEpointfive0 Premium Member Bitches Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: SoCal Posts: 14,824 Drives: a lot Rep Power: 17151	I realized that I didn't fully answer your question... Why the loss is low end hp/torque, to be honest, I'm not 100% sure, I can speculate that a freer flowing exhaust gives you a bit of a loss because you're losing back pressure... At the same time, back pressure on a N/A is bull, there is no NEED for it, I bet it's more that the engine works better under stress... (Reason why people put like high pressure coolant caps). On the intakes, it's not 100% the temperature of the air, it's the FLOW that helps... And I'm sorry to anyone that has the HPS or similar intake tubes, they don't do anything, since the accordion is AFTER the MAF, it doesn't help... Getting back to it, I think the reason you may have more of a power loss or lack of initial power is because the air has to physically move further, so short rams are better for that, but the temperature under the hood is ridiculous! So IMO It's better to have drop ins than short ram. (The stock intake boxes' ducting is actually quite good at getting cooler fresh air...) When you install the Takedas or Stillen G3's you run your piping THROUGH the stock intake box inlets.

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