Roots supercharger?

Z eliminator · 04-21-2012, 07:00 PM

You would use the TVS 1900 blower

Rusty · 04-21-2012, 07:45 PM

All of this roots blower talk. I'm starting to get a woody.

Nixlimited · 04-21-2012, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roplusbee

I'm sad that this is going to get going AFTER I have completed a twin turbo build. I would much rather have gone with a Roots or TVS SC setup. And the whine just makes it that much more awesome, even though it eliminates stealth.

Eh, just think of the years of enjoyment you will get out of your TT before this becomes a reality ... if ever.

Jordo! · 04-23-2012, 05:41 PM

I thought the problem was that the throttling is mainly done by VVEL, so no fully closed throttle plates.

I figured the easy way around that was a clutch type engagement.

Very curious to see what gets developed... very much miss the A2W IC'd roots blower on my old Celica GT-S.

VQStryker · 04-23-2012, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordo!

I thought the problem was that the throttling is mainly done by VVEL, so no fully closed throttle plates.

I figured the easy way around that was a clutch type engagement.

Very curious to see what gets developed... very much miss the A2W IC'd roots blower on my old Celica GT-S.

Believe you are correct, I think I read something like that somewhere but I couldn't find it again.

(2-1-2) (2-2-3) (2-2-8)
http://www.nissan-global.com/EN/DOCU...0713VVEL-e.pdf

Jordo! · 04-24-2012, 03:43 PM

Yeah, I think with the throttle plates mostly open, even with a bypass valve, it won't work -- you'd just constantly be under boost -- so all you need is a clutch to engage it activated by TPS.

Actually, not even sure you would need a bypass then, as on idle, very light throttling and decel the blower just won't be spinning.

My understanding on the plumbing and routing of things might be off a bit -- I know more about tuning than building the set-ups, so somebody please correct if I am missing something here.

Probably need a new hood with nice big bulge to fit it, but that would be bad *** anyway!

Sh0velMan · 04-24-2012, 04:10 PM

The plates don't stay "mostly open" (I don't think) but they definitely don't close all the way. Based on my experience with my car, that's how the engine handles IAC, instead of an adjustable bleed valve or whatever. I don't see why a roots style blower would change that much, plus it would have to have a centripetal clutch anyway (like basically every factory supercharged setup does) to keep idle quality and whatnot.

_ace_ · 05-06-2012, 01:18 AM

I'd love to see it, but it will be a few years before I could seriously contemplate one. What peak boost level are you looking at?

Compdoc777 · 05-06-2012, 07:51 AM

From my experience we could hit from 11-15 psi on 11.5 compression ratio. I was running 11 psi on my RSX and making 311 whp. I made more HP and Tq than the car made peak stock at 2500 rpm that was with an 8800 rpm limit and I made power all the way up to redline.

I am thinking two smaller chargers side by side less heat and more air flow.

Scribe · 05-06-2012, 10:42 PM

I'm very interested in a water-cooled, roots-style blower and it is the only thing I would take over a twin turbo setup. I put it to the forum to photoshop a cowl hood a while back with the idea that it would allow for such a supercharger setup.

Compdoc777 · 05-06-2012, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scribe

I'm very interested in a water-cooled, roots-style blower and it is the only thing I would take over a twin turbo setup. I put it to the forum to photoshop a cowl hood a while back with the idea that it would allow for such a supercharger setup.

Problem is running a belt from what i can see. Having lot of experience with belt wrap and superchargers. This is probably why they don't have one put now.
what I am thinking is a duel charger setup, but noting running a belt will be a pain. I am thinking an electric motor geared for high torque to spin up booth chargers using an rpm signal to run the motor. This keeps parasitic loss off the motor for maximum power.

Sh0velMan · 05-06-2012, 11:42 PM

Attached is a photo of the real "Problem". The solution to which the development company won't tell me until we have an agreement on paper, haha.

Jordo! · 05-26-2012, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh0velMan

Attached is a photo of the real "Problem". The solution to which the development company won't tell me until we have an agreement on paper, haha.

Any new updates on this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by _ace_

I'd love to see it, but it will be a few years before I could seriously contemplate one. What peak boost level are you looking at?

It's not really an issue of how much boost, but rather how much peak torque can be made before a piston breaks from overpower, provided no evidence of knock.

My guess is you could make about as much power as with any other kit on a stock motor -- the major difference would be near instant torque and peak boost reached much faster than with other kinds of FI.

Because peak boost can be made more quickly, that will put a little more strain on mechanical parts, but again, my guess is it will overall make similar gains but with better responsiveness.

A roots blown engine just feels like a bigger version of the same engine -- the Z would easily feel like it had a V8 with a roots blower.

Tombonombona · 06-12-2012, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordo!

Any new updates on this?

It's not really an issue of how much boost, but rather how much peak torque can be made before a piston breaks from overpower, provided no evidence of knock.

My guess is you could make about as much power as with any other kit on a stock motor -- the major difference would be near instant torque and peak boost reached much faster than with other kinds of FI.

Because peak boost can be made more quickly, that will put a little more strain on mechanical parts, but again, my guess is it will overall make similar gains but with better responsiveness.

A roots blown engine just feels like a bigger version of the same engine -- the Z would easily feel like it had a V8 with a roots blower.

Isn't that the point? Haha.. I love boost, don't get me wrong, but I am coming from the subaru world were it is mash the gas- wait for boost- wait for boost- have a drink - wait for boost- ook there it is. Some actual throttle response is very nice.

TopgunZ · 06-18-2012, 03:51 PM

Thats why I had to twin charge my roots with a turbo on my 350...lol. Too bad they didnt do it right the first time. If they made a kit that displaced around 1.8L of air /rev. for the 370 that thing would whomp hard! Id have to come to the 370 side for that.

04-21-2012, 07:00 PM	#16 (permalink)
Z eliminator A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 1,659 Drives: 370 Z 7AT Sports Rep Power: 19	You would use the TVS 1900 blower __________________ 12.343 @114.14 . 4.5 stroker motor is now being built. Dec 1 2015.

04-21-2012, 07:45 PM	#17 (permalink)
Rusty Ronin Samurai - Assassin Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Fayettenam,Pennsyltucky Age: 68 Posts: 35,219 Drives: 2011 Nismo GM 6M Rep Power: 2684438	All of this roots blower talk. I'm starting to get a woody. __________________ 浪人 - 殺し屋 "The Difficult Anytime, The Impossible By Appointment Only" http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...o-journal.html

04-23-2012, 05:41 PM	#19 (permalink)
Jordo! A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: nirvana Posts: 6,394 Drives: 2023 NATM Rep Power: 418	I thought the problem was that the throttling is mainly done by VVEL, so no fully closed throttle plates. I figured the easy way around that was a clutch type engagement. Very curious to see what gets developed... very much miss the A2W IC'd roots blower on my old Celica GT-S. __________________ Enjoy it. Destroy it.

04-24-2012, 03:43 PM	#21 (permalink)
Jordo! A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: nirvana Posts: 6,394 Drives: 2023 NATM Rep Power: 418	Yeah, I think with the throttle plates mostly open, even with a bypass valve, it won't work -- you'd just constantly be under boost -- so all you need is a clutch to engage it activated by TPS. Actually, not even sure you would need a bypass then, as on idle, very light throttling and decel the blower just won't be spinning. My understanding on the plumbing and routing of things might be off a bit -- I know more about tuning than building the set-ups, so somebody please correct if I am missing something here. Probably need a new hood with nice big bulge to fit it, but that would be bad *** anyway! __________________ Enjoy it. Destroy it.

04-24-2012, 04:10 PM	#22 (permalink)
Sh0velMan A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Dallas/Ft.Worth Posts: 3,349 Drives: Noisily. Rep Power: 20	The plates don't stay "mostly open" (I don't think) but they definitely don't close all the way. Based on my experience with my car, that's how the engine handles IAC, instead of an adjustable bleed valve or whatever. I don't see why a roots style blower would change that much, plus it would have to have a centripetal clutch anyway (like basically every factory supercharged setup does) to keep idle quality and whatnot. __________________ Buy My Car! \| Build Thread

05-06-2012, 01:18 AM	#23 (permalink)
_ace_ Base Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: USA Posts: 140 Drives: 370Z Rep Power: 14	I'd love to see it, but it will be a few years before I could seriously contemplate one. What peak boost level are you looking at?

05-06-2012, 07:51 AM	#24 (permalink)
Compdoc777 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Cypress Posts: 277 Drives: 2011 Nismo #4 MB Rep Power: 14	From my experience we could hit from 11-15 psi on 11.5 compression ratio. I was running 11 psi on my RSX and making 311 whp. I made more HP and Tq than the car made peak stock at 2500 rpm that was with an 8800 rpm limit and I made power all the way up to redline. I am thinking two smaller chargers side by side less heat and more air flow. Last edited by Compdoc777; 05-06-2012 at 07:54 AM.

05-06-2012, 10:42 PM	#25 (permalink)
Scribe Base Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Houston, TX. Posts: 182 Drives: Touring-Sport-Manual Rep Power: 220	I'm very interested in a water-cooled, roots-style blower and it is the only thing I would take over a twin turbo setup. I put it to the forum to photoshop a cowl hood a while back with the idea that it would allow for such a supercharger setup.

06-18-2012, 03:51 PM	#30 (permalink)
TopgunZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 2,651 Drives: 06 350Z , 09 370Z MT Rep Power: 6834	Thats why I had to twin charge my roots with a turbo on my 350...lol. Too bad they didnt do it right the first time. If they made a kit that displaced around 1.8L of air /rev. for the 370 that thing would whomp hard! Id have to come to the 370 side for that.

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