i payed 500 for a tune...was on dyno for less than 15 min...ijs and there are plenty of other people ive spoken to that are on the dyno for about the same...even for a s/c tune..i understand fully that when a tuner tunes hundreds of the same car he gets accustomed to what should go where depending on mods..i would of just liked to be treated as 1 car 1 tune specifically tailored to my car and my mods. and its a far drive from miami for 15 min :( lol but ill have to go back and re-tune soon and hope it just goes a bit better and can actually squeeze out all the power i can.

Relax, you are totally overlooking that most what he said was not right but the 25 minutes he is? You already had your mind made up and no matter what I say you won't listen, as for the G35 as I mentioned if it is post Jan 2009 let me know and I will be happy to address it and if wrong them I am wrong, I have nothing to hide

He has done many cars over the years so he knows what needs to be done, if you feel better to have him run the car multiple times unnecessarily to justify your drive then I will tell him to do so in the future, no problem

If people measure the results by the amount of time spent on the dyno rather than actual tune results I guess we will do so, personally I run mine as little as possible and get the most out of the runs I do to tune it! But like they say the customer is always right

honestly gus there is no reason for the passive aggressive-ness. you asked about times post 2009 and i'm just bringing it to light for you that people have the same concerns...and as i posted if you didn't read it, i understand he has tuned X amount of cars and has pre-set maps for certain modifications. Im just saying not every motor is identical. and ive personally never seen a car get tuned in 2-3 pulls.

Man I feel like I am arguing with my wife, damned if I do damned if I don't

I assumed issues brought up would be of bad tunes not that he is too fast

I will admit tuning is not always perfect scenario specially with heavily modified cars, but we will always stand behind it and retune at no cost as long as it is within a reasonable time not months

hey knew after two months it was taking way too long!

Gus Martinez,

Thanks for responding. What do you mean by customers like me? What are you trying to say? I was sharing my experience with the forum members. I did it politely and within reason. I have seen how Jack has answered customers ( Okay- So Japtrix Fails - G35Driver) before so I am not surprised you are answering on his behalf. It is what it is.


Let me put my lawyer hat on to answer on each of your points. My answeres in red.

Oh my I just love forums and customers like you that just feel you can spew stuff out and lead people to believe it all.

I believe I have the cars right, if so here is what I know:

First lets go back to your 350Z experience (I assume you are WhiteOnWhite350z from my350z, yes I still have your pms on it) your car with the procharger was attempted to be tuned when your belt broke, then you said your engine blew 6 days later and that you wanted a refund for the cable and license, and then the story was your Z was getting totaled, not sure what that was about but we went ahead and refunded you the money even though you dragged it out 3 months from the time your car "blew an engine/was totaled" to when you sent us the ECU.

The car was tuned by Jack. The belt tore on the procharger (not his fault). He stopped tuning and said he did “enough” tuning. He said once I put a new belt I would be OK. To say the least the motor didn’t last very long. I was left stranded on US1 and had to get the car towed. On the way to the shop the 350z fell off a tow truck at 50 MPH. I told you and Jack this and the fact that you are questioning this now shows how much you pay attention to your customers when they speak. I couldn’t get you the ECU for some time since I had no access to the totaled 350z.

Then you get the 370Z on which you get the kit installed at another facility for us to tune, whatever they promise you we are not privy to or can control or live up to if it is not our commitment.

I had it installed by Jason L. (Jnaut). He said he only tunes his cars with you (HP Logic). He stated he is very good friends with you and Jack. I guess he was wrong. His install has nothing to do with the sloppy tuning Jack performed. 10.1@WOT. The car was running pig rich.

Then the car was brought to our facility to tune, the tune was started and got just so far because your tire fell off the wheel, and had to wait until that got sorted out, great hella flush story

**** happens. Again, lesson learned. But how does this affect the quality of the tune? Explain how hellaflush ruined Jack’s ability to tune my car? You are making excuses for your employee’s ineptitude.

I am looking at my accounting and only see a charge to you for the 350Z a couple of years ago and the 380 in December 2011, not sure we charged you the 300 or Jnaut, we are a business and have to charge for what we do, if another shop promises something it is not our problem to live up to their promises it should be up to them to do right by their customers.

Jnaut said Jack needed another $300 after the new injectors were installed to retune. Did Jack take the money under the table and take money away from your company? Did Jnaut defraud me? These are questions that are unanswered and the community should know about.

As for your continued mentioning of 90 bucks an hour, where have you ever heard tuning done for 90 bucks an hour??? that is our labor rate for mechanical work.

I have an invoice for that day that shows it would be $90 an hour. Again, as I have stated many times I have no problem paying for services rendered. But I was blindsided with the $380 for 25 minutes work. Then when I questioned, I was told “too late tune is already one on the car”. I had no choice but to sign and leave with my car. What would have you done in that situation Gus? I have the invoice showing $90 per hour. You could have put flat fee but you did not instead hourly rate was [x].

And now to the chargeback you attempted, the credit company agreed with us because of the following:
- you paid after the service was provided
- we know that because the dyno graph was time stamped just 5 minutes before the time stamp on the receipt
- and we had a picture of your car with plate on the dyno
- I did this with the credit company because I felt it was wrong to do the chargeback, trust me I am not going to risk things over 380 bucks

I never received any dyno sheet that day. The dyno sheet I saw from Visa was some generic plot. Why did I have to receive a dyno sheet from Visa? Can I see the picture of my car on the dyno on 12/22/11? Well the invoice clearly shows $90 an hour. I had to chargeback because I felt it was a bait and switch. You don’t want to risk things over $380 but yet you are here questioning me and calling me out. Go figure.

Basically an unwarranted move, considering you had the service done and we had done the right thing before when we refunded you, you never contacted me this time at all, but I know Jack knows about the tranny uprev adjustments and if you want to try it again I will make a point of being present and ensure all is done as you expected.

I appreciate that. I know you helped me before. But my problem is with the casual attitude Jack takes when he is tuning my car. Others tuners really take their time and explain everything. I just didn’t get that. I spend a lot of money and drove up to Royal Palm Beach to get it done right. I brought back my 370z even after what happened to my 350z. As others stated, I am being civil and patient. I would appreciate the same.

Thank you sir I will be responding soon!

Shouldn't get locked. doesnt seem like much he said, she said is going on. sure maybe airing this out in public wouldnt be my first choice, but its definately not lock worthy

it'll get there... no shops seem to want to claim any responsibilty anymore if something goes wrong. Am I the only one who thinks even if you do take care of it, complaining/whining blaming it on other parts basically sets you back to square one.. If your gonna take care of it take care of it with a smile.. if not, then dont and watch how many referals you will get and returning customers.. just my .02

Pretty civil.

I have seen worse.

However issues had to be shown so others can avoid same situation.

A lot of time has passed and lots of money has been spent. I am upset but my thread is civil and fact based. I have proof to back up all my points.

The attitude didn't come into the thread until the vendor was defending his business, which is his right.

I agree 100%.

totally agree its been civil so far.. Hopefully we can keep it that way. It sucks when threads get locked that shouldnt be.. Shelters the bad reputation from the consumers..

And it will stay civil, for people that know me they know I am an easy going guy and will try to do what it takes to make things right, in this case I didn't know about it until I got a chargeback, so I was like WTF. Unfortunately I am not at the shop all the time so don't see everything that happens but I am always willing to listen to all sides.

He knew how to get a hold of me before he could have again this time, instead of doing a chargeback and now coming on here, but I understand, his perception is his reality and I have been there myself, and I try very hard specially with Z's to make sure people are happy within reason as I see them on a regular basis if members of the club down here.

If issues arise I will listen and see what can be done to rectify the situation, I am not saying I do it all the time, I am human and there are some people that just wont be satisfied no matter what you do, nature of the business. Sorry you had that experience but next time, if there is a next time, just get a hold of me somehow

You are being more than civil. I applaud what you have done here. Providing insight into ones experiences can be both embarrassing and painful. It's a shame more people don't take this approach as it provides us all with a bit of transparency... especially when trying to determine where to spend our hard earned $.

Glad to hear that you are being taken care of. It helps to have good karma..:tiphat:

So basically what you are saying is that my thread here and the fact that I filed a charge back was the wrong way to go about it?

I attempted to get ahold of you through the phone but to no avail.

This thread is not a callout thread. I am letting people know about my experience.

If you wanted to refund me the difference between the time actually spent and the money I paid you would have done it by now. Like you said, you don't want problems over $380.

However, all I am getting from this is that I went about this all the wrong way.

Jack is right for charging $380 for a 25 minute retune because of the countless of cars he has tuned before. The $300 extra charge was not legitimate and possibly pocketed by Jack or Jason. Also he could have tuned the tranny because he knows how to but decided not to for whatever reason.

Right now I am without a car because my transmission was trashed (3rd and 4th gear) due to lack of line pressure. If Jack would have taken the extra 2 minutes and 30 seconds to tune the torque management I might have a car in my garage today.

I understand you have to defend your business and employees but there is a common theme when it comes to Jack and his somewhat "rushed" tunes.

Other tuners reading this feel free to chime in on the rates charged. I know it varies but I would like to know how far off I am.

I would also like to know much much time and effort goes into a truly "custom tune" especially for a SC or TT Z or G.

I appreciate it man.

It can be embarrassing but sometimes you gotta take one for the team.

I am not asking for much and I am doing it as professional as possible.

I am talking about a vendor who deals with many members here, both HP Logic and Jnaut. Well Jnaut used to but after the Travis build I haven't heard from him on here.

Well to be honest. I've had the same issue with another local shop. No true dyno sheets etc. Now I have an exhaust leak and when I took to them they acted like it wasn't their problem( company is called executive performance). The 7AT can be "tuned". I have told everybody local to avoid them, subie guys Z 's and down the line. It's the business owners responsibility to fix the issues. We have paid for services and expect them to stand behind the work. I'm still fighting issues with my system and have been since late September. I was told that it would cost me around $3500 more to get the system fixed. Trust me I'm almost done with it all---$12,000 so far--. So trust me I'm with you on what you have said and done. I haven't been as civil as you have been. I can care less what the shop that did my install thinks.

still not 100% sure y STS wants $3500 more to fix a kit they sent you?

Y not just buy a new one and part that one out to some n00b?

Man that sucks I spent 9500 with gauges and installed

This thread has been very civil. "IBTL"?? Lol.. Douches r gonna be douches...

Wow370 I applaud u for being very patient n civil.. I hope nuttin butthe best for ya.

Gus, youve always been a stand up guy. I know ur caught on the defensive here and it's understandable.. I'm SURE you have noticed the pattern by now on what the problem is but it seem like you have to clean it all up.. Jack's ability to maneuver thru a forum is well.. U already know. Thas why he's not on any forum I believe..
Anyway it always comes down to the same problem same person.. How many times u gonna clean it up?
Good luck to everyone involved.

It's not STS. That would be like wow saying it was GTM that caused all of his headaches. I'm sure the guys at GTM have done the same thing STS has done for me. This is about the owners of these companies (installers/tuners) stepping up and taking the responsibilities that are involved.For someone who owns a company to say they didn't know about these issues is just BS. How can you not. It only takes one customer to ruin a company ..the power of speaking out and letting others know. What makes it right is trying to fix it before it gets to this point.

i see what you are saying, now back on topic here, was not trying to get thread off topic

Not really but yes. I was just letting W.O.W. know I understand and couldn't agree more with what he has done. I'm seeing a trend here from most shops everywhere. We, as the customers, are only walking $$$$$.

This is why we need to spread the word about companies that do really well. it sucks seeing multiple people have the same problems with the same companies, but nobody puts it together till the end.

great companies are few and far between in the tuning community

+10000000000

That has been the main problem at said company here.
We as buyers should be more vigilant when it comes to who we do business and the end result. FI ain't cheap. Tens of thousands of dollars are gettin dumped into a car that already is around 20-30k. This kinda crap has to stop. If this was a Honda thread where the cars r cheap n a full turbo kit costs like 2-4k then ok some stuff could slide but not on a 370z platform where our turbo kits r 10k plus only to have it ruined by someone who wants the next person on the dyno ASAP n out the door.
Granted we know there's risk, risk can be minimized and in the end if a tuner would sit there, take his time n be more interactive with their customers (business 101) n understand that we just dropped 10k+ and we are terrified that it can blow up right there on the dyno n we want it to be perfect then your business will go a long way. If not then these kinda threads should pop up and ppl should speak out. Far too many times I've seen mods delete threads due to company being a sponsor on the forum. Thas jus pure bs.

HP logic - I'm almost certain if jack would have been more interactive with the OP n took his time to explain n give a little bit of insight none is thread wouldn't have popped up even if his tranny went boom. Make the man feel good n like a million bucks. Now all he remembers is his tranny blown to hell n jack rushin him out the door so he can get the next person on the dyno ASAP.

apparently you havent seen enough threads like this then. Give it time and all the cards come falling down when it gets into the back and forth bickering about whos story is correct. said it once and I will still say it IBTL. However I do wish this thread, nuttin butthe best

That is exactly what we, as the customers, are trying to tell them. At the same time ,threads like these help other people decide on someone else's past experience. Sure it maybe different but if enough people are crying wolf....then well I think we all know what that means. There is always truth in a story. Sure we want it to work out with no problems but using a cookie cutter type tune will one day f someone over. These cars maybe the same but they are differenty and will respond differently. My :twocents:

I dont want to threadjack or anything but I to do have a problem with JNAULT and possibly the tune. I have left messages with JNAULT and was supposed to take my car back to him in feb to have it checked but no phone calls back. but to elaborate on the problem since I picked up the car in Sept Oct I have been having the car go into a type of limp mode. it seems the car has a missfire sometimes and sets a mode in which you cannot go above 2500 rpms until you stop and turn it off for about 30 seconds and turn it back on. it only happens if you fall under the 2500 rpm mark and then try to take off again. Usually at red lights. it does not happen all the time just once in a while. I talked to janult about this multiple times until he stopped responding to me in mid jan right before i was to bring it to him then I got deployed for a little bit and just got back. so if hplogic could chime in and let me know if they would work with me and we can take this off line if you would like to pm me a contact number and name since I only worked with JNAULT. At this point I want to make sure the car is sound before pounding on it this summer. Any input would be greatly appreciated. and if any one knows what happen to JNAULT please elaborate.

It may benefit you to choose an alternate Tuner.. even if it does cost a few $$$..
I see that you are in Tampa. IIRC, I know of at least one other viable option..
http://www.the370z.com/forced-induct...es-please.html
S&R Performance

+1000000

I guess he hasn't been readin this thread.

Sorry to hear about all this Fernando, I hope you get you're car back soon and can finally enjoy it how it was meant to be....

Doesn't look like that will be anytime soon.

I have had so many PMs from people who experienced the same thing with HP Logic.

But all HP Logic has done is insinuate this is all my fault for disputing or questioning their business practices.

Just by his comments would be enough to avoid them. It almost seemed like he was laughing when he was responding. Still like how he had thrown in the part about the tire coming off...hahahahaha I guess that was the whole problem nothing else. The tire is to blame not them. Just like I talked to a guy that told me the Infinity dealer told him that his innercooler caused his tranny to slip. :facepalm:

Their comments speak to their business and how it works. I wish I could just copy and paste the comments I have been PM'd and experiences shared by fellow members.

It's hard to speak up because you are labelled as the "bad" customer but it is what it is.

I just wanna clarify. Baker Tuning does not "tune" per say. Yes Jason is amazing (hence why he has my car now for TT install) and he works with Sam by data logging and making adjustments but the dealership has no dyno nor tuning services...yet.

Carry on.. sorry to hear about your car wow.

Man, this is why i dont want to go forced induction :(

There have been plenty of vehicles that have been boosted with nothing but success. You just need to do your research before taking the plunge. My mechanic doing my install is dedicated and will over-check his work numerous times, not anything short of perfect. His tuner is amazing as well. Only person at this point I trust with my car.

Sam@GTM is a very good tuner and knows his stuff, so you may just be better off using a turn-key kit which already comes with the canned tune. That way, a competent mechanic can do the install and Sam will send you the tune. :)

I have learned alot since taking the FI plunge.

I have learned that money rules all at some shops. HP Logic taught me that well.

I had to wait 30 minutes at the shop because an owner with a GTR (older gentleman) with no appointment was getting a Cobb reflash, I won't even mention how much the customer was charged for the simple plug and play reflash.

I drove 1.5 hours to get their for my appointment but wait another 35 minutes.

Just little things like that business owners should be aware of.

it just sounds like a terrible experience all together... once again I hope all this gets solved for you and your car runs like its supposed to.. Your giving me nightmares about mine :icon14: