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Twin Turbo vs. Single Turbo V6: A Dissertation

I'm not aware of any. it is not terribly difficult to construct one though. So far, I have not seen anything to the contrary. Again, as the single turbo's only

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Old 01-18-2012, 10:09 PM   #76 (permalink)
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I'm not aware of any.
it is not terribly difficult to construct one though.

Quote:
So far, I have not seen anything to the contrary. Again, as the single turbo's only competitive edge is cost, anything other than the reuse of the stock exhaust manifold would work against that advantage.
you are neglecting the efficiency opportunities afforded by a larger turbo.



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Until I am proved wrong, I'll stand by it. But unless someone can invent a reverse entropy device and defy the laws of physics, I'll be standing for a long time yet.
I always laugh when people make statements like:
Quote:
A twin turbo system does these things extremely well and cannot be beat…even by a well engineered single turbo system. The single turbo system has too many compromises to make as effective of a street setup.

and back them up with this:
Quote:
Until I am proved wrong, I'll stand by it. But unless someone can invent a reverse entropy device and defy the laws of physics, I'll be standing for a long time yet.
rather than numbers. I understand you are running business, but isn't it good enough to just point at that there is nothing on the market that offers similar performance in a single, rather than broad, sweeping statements that cannot possibly be supported?

Quote:
On a V6? It would require a substantial amount of number crunching to find that crossover, but from some of the numbers that I have looked at, I suspect my original estimate of 1300+ may actually be conservative.
Can you share the numbers you've looked at? I would love to see them.



Quote:
You know, just for giggles, I shot an e-mail to a contact I have at Garrett just to see if we can get the actual MOI numbers. In his estimation, a pair of GT2860RS turbos will have a very close total MOI when compared to a comparably sized single turbo (GT4094R). Remember that MOI is based on the square of the radius.
I understand that, but you don't necessarily increase the MOI a lot to bump up flow. You wind up coming VERY close in terms of total MOI, and the efficiency of a single turbo can get things very interesting. Turbine clearance needs alone create a huge opportunity for gains in efficiency, not to mention the pulse density.





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Furthermore, due to the loss of enthalpy from a longer exhaust pipe routing (required for a single turbo setup on a V6), the twins will be receiving more total enthalpy than the single and since their MOI's are so close already, the Twins will respond faster.
At some point this becomes trivial relative to other gains (pulse efficiency, etc). Obviously systems like the STS don't effectively leverage it.



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That's a good question. It's been awhile since I looked at it. Keep in mind that the stock exhaust manifold has two ply heat shields as well. I'll see if I can dig up those calcs at home.

I'd love to see them. I imagine the wrapped SS will be much better than you expect.
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Old 01-18-2012, 11:31 PM   #77 (permalink)
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twin 2860rs are only good up to 550 at most whp. anything over that the intake air temp gets pretty high and pushes them way out of there efficiency. comparing two 2860rs to a single 4094r is absolutely ridiculous. a single 4094 will.make more power efficiently and with a lower iats then 2860s any day. yea you will sacrifice a bit on torque side but the top end side of things is pretty retarded. on 16 psi of boost on a 4094r on a rev up de with cosworth cams and port work, we full spooled a 4094r with a 1.06 hotside at 4100rpm. and was on stock headers and stock intake manifold. cam timing was mild in the midrange. spool up timing was at 9 degrees and it was on pump gas.

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Old 01-19-2012, 01:24 PM   #78 (permalink)
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We've made easily over 630+whp on the 2860RS' (VG30DETT). The highest around 670 whp. This of course is done on race fuel. At a mere 12 psi on a VQ37 they can make 550+whp (with the right parts). On setups\turbos that are inefficient you'll see the boost go up but the power gains are minimal and start to drop off drastically, this is a good sign the turbo is pumping heat. Contributing factors are not only the turbo but the supporting modifications for example the piping diameter of the inlet, outlet, and exhaust piping as well as the VE of the engine.
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Old 01-21-2012, 12:22 AM   #79 (permalink)
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This topic can be discussed for ever, but in the end the ST kit still holds the top two spots:

1. InjectedPerf------04 Glide Enth 100 shot( IP 4.0L ) IP ST _8.801@159.19mph 1.485 60ft Dr's
2. Hal@IP -(daily)---05 6spd -Tour ------------(Built) IP ST _9.349@145.00mph 1.500 60ft Dr's
3. SoundPerformance -04 6spd -Enth ----------- (Built) SP TT _9.355@158.52mph 1.466 60ft ET Drag
4. need4boostz-------05 6spd -Enth ------(Built) 850s JWT TT 10.301@145.83mph 1.808 60ft Slicks
5. Bldrz ------------04 TH350 Base 50 shot (Built) Greddy TT 10.375@132.41mph 1.567 60ft Slicks
6. AudibleMayhem ----03 TH400 Tour 100 shot(Built) Greddy TT 10.404@134.00mph 1.729 60ft Slicks
7. neverenough ------08 6spd -Base ---------- (Built) GTM TT 10.673@135.70mph 1.677 60ft DR's
8. MRCMortorsports --03 6spd -Tour -----------(Built) APS TT 10.740@130.67mph 1.649 60ft Slicks
9. SnyperZ ----------04 6spd -Perf -LS2 w/Cam-Custom 88mm ST 10.840@138.62mph 1.852 60ft DR's
10. BriGuymax -------03 6spd -Tour -----------(Built) APS TT 10.967@126.84mph 1.587 60ft DR's

Last edited by Boosted Performance; 01-21-2012 at 12:24 AM.
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Old 01-21-2012, 11:38 AM   #80 (permalink)
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^^^ What is this chart from? Thanks.

"but in the end...." Huh? Complete race cars up there. The OP's premise starts at the beginning. I get your point, but it's irrelevant to a first time build.

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Old 01-21-2012, 11:56 AM   #81 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Boosted Z View Post
This topic can be discussed for ever, but in the end the ST kit still holds the top two spots:

1. InjectedPerf------04 Glide Enth 100 shot( IP 4.0L ) IP ST _8.801@159.19mph 1.485 60ft Dr's
2. Hal@IP -(daily)---05 6spd -Tour ------------(Built) IP ST _9.349@145.00mph 1.500 60ft Dr's
3. SoundPerformance -04 6spd -Enth ----------- (Built) SP TT _9.355@158.52mph 1.466 60ft ET Drag
4. need4boostz-------05 6spd -Enth ------(Built) 850s JWT TT 10.301@145.83mph 1.808 60ft Slicks
5. Bldrz ------------04 TH350 Base 50 shot (Built) Greddy TT 10.375@132.41mph 1.567 60ft Slicks
6. AudibleMayhem ----03 TH400 Tour 100 shot(Built) Greddy TT 10.404@134.00mph 1.729 60ft Slicks
7. neverenough ------08 6spd -Base ---------- (Built) GTM TT 10.673@135.70mph 1.677 60ft DR's
8. MRCMortorsports --03 6spd -Tour -----------(Built) APS TT 10.740@130.67mph 1.649 60ft Slicks
9. SnyperZ ----------04 6spd -Perf -LS2 w/Cam-Custom 88mm ST 10.840@138.62mph 1.852 60ft DR's
10. BriGuymax -------03 6spd -Tour -----------(Built) APS TT 10.967@126.84mph 1.587 60ft DR's
Man, the JWT kit is a beast. Traction must be a real problem based on the 60'. Could have been a variety of things though.......
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Old 01-21-2012, 12:17 PM   #82 (permalink)
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Yea this chart is irrelevant
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Old 01-21-2012, 07:33 PM   #83 (permalink)
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You guys never cease to amaze me...
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Old 01-21-2012, 07:40 PM   #84 (permalink)
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You guys never cease to amaze me...
what part, our vast automotive knowledge or our striking good looks???
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Old 01-21-2012, 07:54 PM   #85 (permalink)
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Yea this chart is irrelevant
How so? The thread states (to sum it up) that the TT kits are superior to a ST kit on a VQ, yet the top two of the best, verified drag strip slips on the VQ are using ST kits.
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Old 01-21-2012, 08:50 PM   #86 (permalink)
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what part, our vast automotive knowledge or our striking good looks???
Perhaps both?
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Old 01-21-2012, 09:34 PM   #87 (permalink)
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The chart does have 2 STS kits on top. The JWT car could have done better with a lower 60' time and better launch. But the numbers tell the story here.
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Old 01-21-2012, 09:47 PM   #88 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Boosted Z View Post
How so? The thread states (to sum it up) that the TT kits are superior to a ST kit on a VQ, yet the top two of the best, verified drag strip slips on the VQ are using ST kits.
To be fair, the thread is mostly about street use.

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Old 01-21-2012, 09:52 PM   #89 (permalink)
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The chart does have 2 STS kits on top. The JWT car could have done better with a lower 60' time and better launch. But the numbers tell the story here.
Are those STS or just unknown Single Turbos?
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Old 01-21-2012, 10:06 PM   #90 (permalink)
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How so? The thread states (to sum it up) that the TT kits are superior to a ST kit on a VQ, yet the top two of the best, verified drag strip slips on the VQ are using ST kits.
One of them is an ls2 ........ Fail
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