GTM Stage 2 S/C on Meth 507whp/357wtq

kosstick · 12-13-2011, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike@GTM

We do not have any videos as we were pressed for time on this project.

We'll be putting together a package and adding it to our website.

Injecting just water will only improve knock resistance. The methanol will lower intake air temperatures more than just water alone in addition to having a higher knock resistance than gasoline. Jordo and I had a good discussion in a different thread that went into more detail.

If you are doing water/methanol or just straight water, you MUST use DISTILLED water! Any dissolved solids will clog the injectors over time! Think about how often you have to clean/replace the aerator screen in your faucets at home...especially in SoCal where we have nasty, hard water that is barely potable. You do not want that dissolved lime and crap in your motor do you?

Like Nix said, we Americans rate our fuel on the conservative side. Our 91 octane is comparable to your 95 octane and our 93 octane is comparable to your 98 octane.

As far as how it would impact the S/C kit, you would run a little richer on higher octane fuel as it would have less propensity to fully combust. Therefore, you would have a conservative tune for your conditions...nothing wrong with that.

You currently have a HFS-3 aqua mist on your website. is it the same?

elperuano · 12-13-2011, 07:58 PM

Great install, nice car and nice pics but that torque is weeeaaaaakkkksauce!

Nixlimited · 12-13-2011, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike@GTM

Injecting just water will only improve knock resistance. The methanol will lower intake air temperatures more than just water alone in addition to having a higher knock resistance than gasoline. Jordo and I had a good discussion in a different thread that went into more detail.

If you are doing water/methanol or just straight water, you MUST use DISTILLED water! Any dissolved solids will clog the injectors over time! Think about how often you have to clean/replace the aerator screen in your faucets at home...especially in SoCal where we have nasty, hard water that is barely potable. You do not want that dissolved lime and crap in your motor do you?

Just to be clear, my understanding is that injecting water should improve knock resistance and lower IAT as well as allow you to (in theory at least) run a leaner AFR since you can replace fuel with water for cylinder cooling. Water has a significantly higher specific heat capacity than any sort of fuel which makes it phenomenal for cooling (as compared to say gas). I definitely understand that you need to run distilled water only, but like I said, that's available anywhere and it's cheap. Meth mixes aren't.

Another consideration is the fact that meth is a fuel so *I believe* you have to tune the fueling more than with just water. With multiple maps this may not really be an issue, but I strongly prefer simplicity.

I do realize that you don't have the added power potential when you run just water and no meth, but my goal with a water injection system would be safety margin, not additional WHP. But that's just me.

In any event, congrats on the awesome build!

Mike@GTM · 12-13-2011, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kosstick

You currently have a HFS-3 aqua mist on your website. is it the same?

Yes, and no. The kit on our website is the basic kit. The one we'll be adding has the additional tees, nozzles, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nixlimited

Just to be clear, my understanding is that injecting water should improve knock resistance and lower IAT as well as allow you to (in theory at least) run a leaner AFR since you can replace fuel with water for cylinder cooling. Water has a significantly higher specific heat capacity than any sort of fuel which makes it phenomenal for cooling (as compared to say gas). I definitely understand that you need to run distilled water only, but like I said, that's available anywhere and it's cheap. Meth mixes aren't.

Another consideration is the fact that meth is a fuel so *I believe* you have to tune the fueling more than with just water. With multiple maps this may not really be an issue, but I strongly prefer simplicity.

I do realize that you don't have the added power potential when you run just water and no meth, but my goal with a water injection system would be safety margin, not additional WHP. But that's just me.

In any event, congrats on the awesome build!

Yes, injecting water does lower IAT, but meth does it better. True, water has a high heat capacity, but methanol evaporates faster and it's the change of state from a liquid to a gas that absorbs lots of heat (methanol boils at a lower temperature than water).

You don't necessarily *have* to tune for it, but it is beneficial to do so. Anyway, water injection is perfectly fine for what you want.

So, when are you going to be doing this build?

Nixlimited · 12-14-2011, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike@GTM

Yes, injecting water does lower IAT, but meth does it better. True, water has a high heat capacity, but methanol evaporates faster and it's the change of state from a liquid to a gas that absorbs lots of heat (methanol boils at a lower temperature than water).

You don't necessarily *have* to tune for it, but it is beneficial to do so. Anyway, water injection is perfectly fine for what you want.

So, when are you going to be doing this build?

No arguments with that! Well, I am picking my car up on the 27th. So, after a full break-in and a little financial recovery from the down payment, I will be up there to see you guys. I decided to do the brakes on my car before I even picked it up so there went some of my mod money, haha.

GUTCH · 12-14-2011, 10:54 AM

Is water or water/meth injection recommended if one is using 98 RON fuel or is this just an optional extra?

Mike@GTM · 12-14-2011, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nixlimited

No arguments with that! Well, I am picking my car up on the 27th. So, after a full break-in and a little financial recovery from the down payment, I will be up there to see you guys. I decided to do the brakes on my car before I even picked it up so there went some of my mod money, haha.

Sweet! I'm excited for you...nothing like that new car smell.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GUTCH

Is water or water/meth injection recommended if one is using 98 RON fuel or is this just an optional extra?

It is an optional extra...it is not required. We only recommend it if you are going for gobs of power on stock compression with pump gas. The stage 2 supercharger kit out of the box performs very well and does not need water/meth injection to operate correctly.

Jerggy13 · 12-15-2011, 05:24 AM

I really like what you did with the fender liner. It reminds me of exactly what the inner fenders of my VR-4 looked like. Those were there for the SMIC's though. It makes sence and it works. It looks like a great place in which you could mount a huge oil cooler.

Pretty similar:

Z eliminator · 12-15-2011, 12:10 PM

How much boost are you running ?

axio · 12-15-2011, 03:56 PM

Sam told me it was 11psi, IIRC

Z eliminator · 12-15-2011, 10:37 PM

So you made 466 rwhp @ 11 lbs boost. That seems kind of low. Is your car a 7 AT ?
i thought the UAM car made 507 rwhp. ?

kosstick · 12-16-2011, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z eliminator

So you made 466 rwhp @ 11 lbs boost. That seems kind of low. Is your car a 7 AT ?
i thought the UAM car made 507 rwhp. ?

Im making 463ish at 8-8.5 if thats any consolation

theaudir8fan · 12-16-2011, 01:25 AM

interesting, i wonder if it's because of 91 oct. My HR did 450whp at 10psi, so you are not the only one with lower output numbers. Altho that meth injection system is seriously impressive, did not know it can bump up almost 40whp that easily

kosstick · 12-16-2011, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theaudir8fan

interesting, i wonder if it's because of 91 oct. My HR did 450whp at 10psi, so you are not the only one with lower output numbers. Altho that meth injection system is seriously impressive, did not know it can bump up almost 40whp that easily

Not sure about that honestly, Seb at Specialty Z tried a race map with 100 octane and I barely got any improvement ( I do have the largest pulley available though at 96 mm so I am maxed out at boost)

axio · 12-16-2011, 01:43 AM

I'm a 6MT. I was running 91. I thought 466 seemed low too...

12-15-2011, 05:24 AM	#23 (permalink)
Jerggy13 Track Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 517 Drives: with 6 TB's Rep Power: 375	I really like what you did with the fender liner. It reminds me of exactly what the inner fenders of my VR-4 looked like. Those were there for the SMIC's though. It makes sence and it works. It looks like a great place in which you could mount a huge oil cooler. Pretty similar: __________________ Changes come. Keep your dignity. Take the high road. Take it like a man. Momma Sed Like the rain. Like a kidney stone. Its just a broken heart, son. This pain will pass away.

12-15-2011, 12:10 PM	#24 (permalink)
Z eliminator A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 1,659 Drives: 370 Z 7AT Sports Rep Power: 19	How much boost are you running ? __________________ 12.343 @114.14 . 4.5 stroker motor is now being built. Dec 1 2015.

12-15-2011, 03:56 PM	#25 (permalink)
axio Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Posts: 271 Drives: '09 370Z Rep Power: 16	Sam told me it was 11psi, IIRC __________________ GTM Stg II SC w/ Aquamist methanol injection, GTM oil cooler, Berk HFC, Stillen CBE, BC ER coilovers, Hotchkis sways, TWM short shifter, Clutch spring mod, CarboTech XP8s

12-15-2011, 10:37 PM	#26 (permalink)
Z eliminator A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 1,659 Drives: 370 Z 7AT Sports Rep Power: 19	So you made 466 rwhp @ 11 lbs boost. That seems kind of low. Is your car a 7 AT ? i thought the UAM car made 507 rwhp. ? __________________ 12.343 @114.14 . 4.5 stroker motor is now being built. Dec 1 2015.

12-16-2011, 01:25 AM	#28 (permalink)
theaudir8fan Base Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: lonely land up north Posts: 162 Drives: 07 Infiniti G35S PG Rep Power: 14	interesting, i wonder if it's because of 91 oct. My HR did 450whp at 10psi, so you are not the only one with lower output numbers. Altho that meth injection system is seriously impressive, did not know it can bump up almost 40whp that easily __________________ 2007 Infiniti G35S 5AT PG; GTM; KW; Hotchkis; Stillen; Berks; SPC; GT-spec; SxExCx

12-13-2011, 07:58 PM	#17 (permalink)
elperuano A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Southwest FL Posts: 1,374 Drives: G37S Rep Power: 29	Great install, nice car and nice pics but that torque is weeeaaaaakkkksauce!

12-14-2011, 10:54 AM	#21 (permalink)
GUTCH Base Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Australia Posts: 134 Drives: 2018 Audi TT RS Rep Power: 15	Is water or water/meth injection recommended if one is using 98 RON fuel or is this just an optional extra?

12-16-2011, 01:43 AM	#30 (permalink)
axio Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Posts: 271 Drives: '09 370Z Rep Power: 16	I'm a 6MT. I was running 91. I thought 466 seemed low too... __________________ GTM Stg II SC w/ Aquamist methanol injection, GTM oil cooler, Berk HFC, Stillen CBE, BC ER coilovers, Hotchkis sways, TWM short shifter, Clutch spring mod, CarboTech XP8s

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