GTM Stage 2 S/C on Meth 507whp/357wtq

theaudir8fan · 12-16-2011, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kosstick

Not sure about that honestly, Seb at Specialty Z tried a race map with 100 octane and I barely got any improvement ( I do have the largest pulley available though at 96 mm so I am maxed out at boost)

No idea, hopefully someone from GTM can give us some info.

Quote:

Originally Posted by axio

I'm a 6MT. I was running 91. I thought 466 seemed low too...

Haha, i know how you feel, my target was 450+, but i did expect a bit more with the stage 2 and 10psi. When i asked Sam for the reason, he said it has to do with 91 oct, wish i can understand it better to know exactly why.

Nixlimited · 12-16-2011, 02:39 AM

CA 91 is literally the worst gas in the nation. It wouldn't surprise me if a STG 2 here got 40 WHP less than 93 octane cars in other states.

Z eliminator · 12-16-2011, 08:06 AM

im hoping that mine will make 500 rwhp before the meth spray. and 540 with the spray @ 11 lbs boost on 94 octane.

Zat_Zuma · 12-17-2011, 02:58 PM

Doesn't the meth/water injection interfere or cause damage to the stock MAF sensors? If anything they will be cleaner

How much are the IAT's being reduced with meth injection before the MAF and before the intercooler? Which leads into the next question: how much are you able to increase timing from the lowered IAT's?

Have you measured the effect of meth injection on the EGT temps and by how much they can be lowered?

Another great idea from GTM and clean install. When will the kit be availble from GTM?

axio · 12-18-2011, 07:28 PM

Zat Zuma,

I haven't measured any temps, sorry. I don't have the equipment. Not sure if an UPREV cable will let me measure temps but GTM never included it with my kit (which is part of the GTM Stg 2 kit) and I've asked for it but they still haven't sent one after a few months. Sam or anyone else from GTM, if you guys can send that over to me, please do.

As for the car itself, it ran well. The oil cooler works. I asked GTM to open up the fake vents up front to allow more airflow and they did that, which is great since the oil cooler sits directly behind that. At the track, I didn't have oil temp issues. The sessions were 20-25 minutes long, outside temp was mid 60's, so while I know it isn't hot out, I was still able to mash it for a long period of time. The highest temps I saw were 240, but most sessions I saw 220.

On the long back straight that leads uphill back into turn 1, I was able to hit 120, and this E46 M3 wasn't able to keep up. He was directly on my *** exiting turn 11 but I was able to pull away. That being said, the driver was pretty awesome and shouldn't have been in my beginner group so as soon as we entered the corners, I waved him to pass. I was definitely slower on this same straight vs a GTR but not by too much. He was definitely faster though. Again, in the corners, he destroyed everyone on the track.

But yeah, the car works, it ran through a ton of meth though. I ran 5 sessions, basically burned through two gallons of meth.

Just wanted to say that the kit works, the oil cooler with the open fang works, the louver behind the oil cooler works...

fuct · 12-19-2011, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by axio

Zat Zuma,

I haven't measured any temps, sorry. I don't have the equipment. Not sure if an UPREV cable will let me measure temps but GTM never included it with my kit (which is part of the GTM Stg 2 kit) and I've asked for it but they still haven't sent one after a few months. Sam or anyone else from GTM, if you guys can send that over to me, please do.

As for the car itself, it ran well. The oil cooler works. I asked GTM to open up the fake vents up front to allow more airflow and they did that, which is great since the oil cooler sits directly behind that. At the track, I didn't have oil temp issues. The sessions were 20-25 minutes long, outside temp was mid 60's, so while I know it isn't hot out, I was still able to mash it for a long period of time. The highest temps I saw were 240, but most sessions I saw 220.

On the long back straight that leads uphill back into turn 1, I was able to hit 120, and this E46 M3 wasn't able to keep up. He was directly on my *** exiting turn 11 but I was able to pull away. That being said, the driver was pretty awesome and shouldn't have been in my beginner group so as soon as we entered the corners, I waved him to pass. I was definitely slower on this same straight vs a GTR but not by too much. He was definitely faster though. Again, in the corners, he destroyed everyone on the track.

But yeah, the car works, it ran through a ton of meth though. I ran 5 sessions, basically burned through two gallons of meth.

Just wanted to say that the kit works, the oil cooler with the open fang works, the louver behind the oil cooler works...

good to hear!!

Zat_Zuma · 12-19-2011, 07:18 PM

Thanks for the answer Axio

I was hoping to get some info from GTM though as I'm sure they logged the info I'm looking for.

Mike?

NYBladeZ · 12-20-2011, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z eliminator

im hoping that mine will make 500 rwhp before the meth spray. and 540 with the spray @ 11 lbs boost on 94 octane.

That would be amazing, though isn't 11psi pushing it assuming this is before an engine build.

Mike@GTM · 12-20-2011, 06:32 PM

I see that some of you guys are really confused on the relationship between power, torque, octane, boost, compression ratio, intake air temperature, barometric pressure, volumetric efficiency, air/fuel ratio, detonation, cylinder pressure and ignition timing. As you can see there are a lot of variables to take into account. A number of you get it and some of you look at one or two variables and jump to conclusions with expectations that don’t factor everything in. Then there’s another small minority that over analyze everything.

Ultimately, I have one word for explaining everything here: BALANCE.

Balance between all the variables in the equation for horsepower.

Balance in the analysis of the variables. Don’t oversimplify, and don’t over-analyze.

Balance in the power you make at the wheels on a dyno and power you can actually put to the pavement. Power is nothing without control.

Remember back in elementary school math class when the teacher would say: “what you do to one side of the equation, you must do to the other side of the equation”? Well, the same principal applies to engine dynamics. That’s where the “balance” comes from. Take away octane and you must take away either boost or timing or both (all other things being equal) or suffer the consequences (detonation, blown motor). By the same token, if you add a bunch of octane, but cannot add the boost and/or timing, then you don’t have a balanced equation and you will be limited to the least common denominator. Remember; just because you increased the detonation threshold you are not going to magically make more horsepower. Especially if the ECU is reading high intake air temperatures and is pulling timing on its own…regardless of the fuel octane.

Yes, California gas is horrible. Let me explain how bad it is. A friend of mine tuned his car in New York and when he moved to California, he had to pull 7 degrees of timing to stop detonation! 7 degrees is very significant and depending on the engine and setup can be around 40whp.

There’s another thing I’d like to point out here. We are talking about a supercharger system that generates boost based on engine rpm and pulley size. If you go really big on the pulley, you simply aren’t going to make much boost, and you are going to build boost at a slower rate. If you go really small on the pulley, then you will make more boost and build boost faster. A supercharger system is, for all intents and purposes a “Set it and forget it” kind of system. You can’t just push a button and step up the boost for when you decide to go to the track and put race gas in the tank.

If you want a lot of adjustability and horsepower, then a twin turbo system with a boost controller is a much better way to go. It’s simply a more flexible system.

Here’s the bottom line. If you are going to be doing the Stage 2 Supercharger and running it on 91 octane gas, we recommend a 96mm pulley which will put you at 8 – 9psi and 450 – 470whp.

If you are going to be running 93 octane gas OR 91 with water/methanol injection, then we recommend a 92mm pulley which will put you at 10 – 11psi of boost and 500+whp.

kosstick · 12-20-2011, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike@GTM

I see that some of you guys are really confused on the relationship between power, torque, octane, boost, compression ratio, intake air temperature, barometric pressure, volumetric efficiency, air/fuel ratio, detonation, cylinder pressure and ignition timing. As you can see there are a lot of variables to take into account. A number of you get it and some of you look at one or two variables and jump to conclusions with expectations that don’t factor everything in. Then there’s another small minority that over analyze everything.

Ultimately, I have one word for explaining everything here: BALANCE.

Balance between all the variables in the equation for horsepower.

Balance in the analysis of the variables. Don’t oversimplify, and don’t over-analyze.

Balance in the power you make at the wheels on a dyno and power you can actually put to the pavement. Power is nothing without control.

Remember back in elementary school math class when the teacher would say: “what you do to one side of the equation, you must do to the other side of the equation”? Well, the same principal applies to engine dynamics. That’s where the “balance” comes from. Take away octane and you must take away either boost or timing or both (all other things being equal) or suffer the consequences (detonation, blown motor). By the same token, if you add a bunch of octane, but cannot add the boost and/or timing, then you don’t have a balanced equation and you will be limited to the least common denominator. Remember; just because you increased the detonation threshold you are not going to magically make more horsepower. Especially if the ECU is reading high intake air temperatures and is pulling timing on its own…regardless of the fuel octane.

Yes, California gas is horrible. Let me explain how bad it is. A friend of mine tuned his car in New York and when he moved to California, he had to pull 7 degrees of timing to stop detonation! 7 degrees is very significant and depending on the engine and setup can be around 40whp.

There’s another thing I’d like to point out here. We are talking about a supercharger system that generates boost based on engine rpm and pulley size. If you go really big on the pulley, you simply aren’t going to make much boost, and you are going to build boost at a slower rate. If you go really small on the pulley, then you will make more boost and build boost faster. A supercharger system is, for all intents and purposes a “Set it and forget it” kind of system. You can’t just push a button and step up the boost for when you decide to go to the track and put race gas in the tank.

If you want a lot of adjustability and horsepower, then a twin turbo system with a boost controller is a much better way to go. It’s simply a more flexible system.

Here’s the bottom line. If you are going to be doing the Stage 2 Supercharger and running it on 91 octane gas, we recommend a 96mm pulley which will put you at 8 – 9psi and 450 – 470whp.

If you are going to be running 93 octane gas OR 91 with water/methanol injection, then we recommend a 92mm pulley which will put you at 10 – 11psi of boost and 500+whp.

Mike,

I am located in social and I have your GTM stage 2 SC and I have a 96mm pulley, could i use a 94 mm pulley (from what i understand you have one) ? Also can you pm me info on the meth kit.

Mike@GTM · 12-20-2011, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kosstick

Mike,

I am located in social and I have your GTM stage 2 SC and I have a 96mm pulley, could i use a 94 mm pulley (from what i understand you have one) ? Also can you pm me info on the meth kit.

Um...yes. You can run a 94mm pulley, pull the appropriate amount of timing to avoid detonation and make the same amount of horsepower you're making right now. You could run a 92mm pulley, pull more timing (again, to avoid detonation), and make the same amount of power. Try to make more power, and you'll get detonation.

At least, that was the point of my previous post.

In regards to the meth kit, I don't have any additional information at the moment to share with you...we're putting together the information for it along with information with other products we're releasing as well.

Nixlimited · 12-20-2011, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike@GTM

In regards to the meth kit, I don't have any additional information at the moment to share with you...we're putting together the information for it along with information with other products we're releasing as well.

Like the secret cooling product you won't tell me about!

Mike@GTM · 12-20-2011, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nixlimited

Like the secret cooling product you won't tell me about!

Exactly...although I think I'll drop a hint.

Shell and tube.

Nixlimited · 12-21-2011, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike@GTM

Exactly...although I think I'll drop a hint.

Shell and tube.

Argh. I have been trying to figure it out to no avail. My best guess is some sort of aero to target cooling, but I have no idea. Get on with it!!!

Z eliminator · 12-21-2011, 11:01 AM

I have 94 octane gas at my gas stations. And my race gas is VP 103 (un leaded).
My SC came with the standard pulley.
I will dyno it with this pulley first.
With the meth it should run well.
It will take some 94 the meth with the 11 lb pulley it should make some good power.
That enough on speculation of what it will make. My redline is 8100 rpm .
I have 309 rwhp in the car now and its a beast. 450 rwhp it will scream thats a lot of power.
Sam has done a great job of making a 450 rwhp. SC that runs good at all rpms.
before you guys think that 450 rwhp is not enough you should drive the car first before cominting about the lack of power. (I include my self in that list)

Z

12-16-2011, 02:39 AM	#32 (permalink)
Nixlimited A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: San Diego Posts: 1,235 Drives: 15 GT-R / 11 Prius Rep Power: 26	CA 91 is literally the worst gas in the nation. It wouldn't surprise me if a STG 2 here got 40 WHP less than 93 octane cars in other states. __________________ Car Sold! Pleasure being a part of the Z community. New ride: 2015 GT-R - 647 WHP / 641 WTQ (e85) & 543 WHP / 519 WTQ (91)

12-16-2011, 08:06 AM	#33 (permalink)
Z eliminator A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 1,659 Drives: 370 Z 7AT Sports Rep Power: 19	im hoping that mine will make 500 rwhp before the meth spray. and 540 with the spray @ 11 lbs boost on 94 octane. __________________ 12.343 @114.14 . 4.5 stroker motor is now being built. Dec 1 2015.

12-17-2011, 02:58 PM	#34 (permalink)
Zat_Zuma A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Edmonton, Alberta ...eh Posts: 1,171 Drives: 2017 Touring auto Rep Power: 19	Doesn't the meth/water injection interfere or cause damage to the stock MAF sensors? If anything they will be cleaner How much are the IAT's being reduced with meth injection before the MAF and before the intercooler? Which leads into the next question: how much are you able to increase timing from the lowered IAT's? Have you measured the effect of meth injection on the EGT temps and by how much they can be lowered? Another great idea from GTM and clean install. When will the kit be availble from GTM? __________________ [B]2009 & 2017 370Z Touring Sport Autos SOLD

12-18-2011, 07:28 PM	#35 (permalink)
axio Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Posts: 271 Drives: '09 370Z Rep Power: 17	Zat Zuma, I haven't measured any temps, sorry. I don't have the equipment. Not sure if an UPREV cable will let me measure temps but GTM never included it with my kit (which is part of the GTM Stg 2 kit) and I've asked for it but they still haven't sent one after a few months. Sam or anyone else from GTM, if you guys can send that over to me, please do. As for the car itself, it ran well. The oil cooler works. I asked GTM to open up the fake vents up front to allow more airflow and they did that, which is great since the oil cooler sits directly behind that. At the track, I didn't have oil temp issues. The sessions were 20-25 minutes long, outside temp was mid 60's, so while I know it isn't hot out, I was still able to mash it for a long period of time. The highest temps I saw were 240, but most sessions I saw 220. On the long back straight that leads uphill back into turn 1, I was able to hit 120, and this E46 M3 wasn't able to keep up. He was directly on my *** exiting turn 11 but I was able to pull away. That being said, the driver was pretty awesome and shouldn't have been in my beginner group so as soon as we entered the corners, I waved him to pass. I was definitely slower on this same straight vs a GTR but not by too much. He was definitely faster though. Again, in the corners, he destroyed everyone on the track. But yeah, the car works, it ran through a ton of meth though. I ran 5 sessions, basically burned through two gallons of meth. Just wanted to say that the kit works, the oil cooler with the open fang works, the louver behind the oil cooler works... __________________ GTM Stg II SC w/ Aquamist methanol injection, GTM oil cooler, Berk HFC, Stillen CBE, BC ER coilovers, Hotchkis sways, TWM short shifter, Clutch spring mod, CarboTech XP8s

12-19-2011, 07:18 PM	#37 (permalink)
Zat_Zuma A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Edmonton, Alberta ...eh Posts: 1,171 Drives: 2017 Touring auto Rep Power: 19	Thanks for the answer Axio I was hoping to get some info from GTM though as I'm sure they logged the info I'm looking for. Mike? __________________ [B]2009 & 2017 370Z Touring Sport Autos SOLD

12-20-2011, 06:32 PM	#39 (permalink)
Mike@GTM Not an active Vendor. DO NOT BUY Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: California Posts: 391 Drives: '13 Hot Lava FR-S Rep Power: 17	I see that some of you guys are really confused on the relationship between power, torque, octane, boost, compression ratio, intake air temperature, barometric pressure, volumetric efficiency, air/fuel ratio, detonation, cylinder pressure and ignition timing. As you can see there are a lot of variables to take into account. A number of you get it and some of you look at one or two variables and jump to conclusions with expectations that don’t factor everything in. Then there’s another small minority that over analyze everything. Ultimately, I have one word for explaining everything here: BALANCE. Balance between all the variables in the equation for horsepower. Balance in the analysis of the variables. Don’t oversimplify, and don’t over-analyze. Balance in the power you make at the wheels on a dyno and power you can actually put to the pavement. Power is nothing without control. Remember back in elementary school math class when the teacher would say: “what you do to one side of the equation, you must do to the other side of the equation”? Well, the same principal applies to engine dynamics. That’s where the “balance” comes from. Take away octane and you must take away either boost or timing or both (all other things being equal) or suffer the consequences (detonation, blown motor). By the same token, if you add a bunch of octane, but cannot add the boost and/or timing, then you don’t have a balanced equation and you will be limited to the least common denominator. Remember; just because you increased the detonation threshold you are not going to magically make more horsepower. Especially if the ECU is reading high intake air temperatures and is pulling timing on its own…regardless of the fuel octane. Yes, California gas is horrible. Let me explain how bad it is. A friend of mine tuned his car in New York and when he moved to California, he had to pull 7 degrees of timing to stop detonation! 7 degrees is very significant and depending on the engine and setup can be around 40whp. There’s another thing I’d like to point out here. We are talking about a supercharger system that generates boost based on engine rpm and pulley size. If you go really big on the pulley, you simply aren’t going to make much boost, and you are going to build boost at a slower rate. If you go really small on the pulley, then you will make more boost and build boost faster. A supercharger system is, for all intents and purposes a “Set it and forget it” kind of system. You can’t just push a button and step up the boost for when you decide to go to the track and put race gas in the tank. If you want a lot of adjustability and horsepower, then a twin turbo system with a boost controller is a much better way to go. It’s simply a more flexible system. Here’s the bottom line. If you are going to be doing the Stage 2 Supercharger and running it on 91 octane gas, we recommend a 96mm pulley which will put you at 8 – 9psi and 450 – 470whp. If you are going to be running 93 octane gas OR 91 with water/methanol injection, then we recommend a 92mm pulley which will put you at 10 – 11psi of boost and 500+whp.

12-21-2011, 11:01 AM	#45 (permalink)
Z eliminator A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 1,659 Drives: 370 Z 7AT Sports Rep Power: 19	I have 94 octane gas at my gas stations. And my race gas is VP 103 (un leaded). My SC came with the standard pulley. I will dyno it with this pulley first. With the meth it should run well. It will take some 94 the meth with the 11 lb pulley it should make some good power. That enough on speculation of what it will make. My redline is 8100 rpm . I have 309 rwhp in the car now and its a beast. 450 rwhp it will scream thats a lot of power. Sam has done a great job of making a 450 rwhp. SC that runs good at all rpms. before you guys think that 450 rwhp is not enough you should drive the car first before cominting about the lack of power. (I include my self in that list) Z __________________ 12.343 @114.14 . 4.5 stroker motor is now being built. Dec 1 2015. Last edited by Z eliminator; 12-21-2011 at 11:09 AM.

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