EFR Turbos
 

Has there been any attemps to fit any of the Borg Warner EFR turbos on the Z yet? Seen it mentioned but did not see application.

Not that I've seen, but go for it! I would but they're so pricey. A BB PT is the most I could convince myself to buy.

I talked to Full Race about this because they mention on their website that they are working on a kit with the EFR turbos (twin turbo). As far as I know they have not actually started on it, and when I talked to them they mentioned the end of the year as a possibility....

I did quite a bit of research on the EFR turbos when I was looking into a custom kit, and it would really need to be a twin turbo kit if you go with these turbos (meaning someone would need to fab/produce manifolds). There was not a single turbo that was a good match for the VQ37VHR; at least that I could find.

Yes I agree it would definatly be twin turbo. I would like to see the 7670 installed but I was just curious if any one had attempted due to the limited space and the size of the turbos. The 7670 is about the size of a gt30. Good to hear full-race is gonna step up to the plate. I hope to attempt some thing like this next year.

What do you mean by this? What are you trying to pair up for?

I was working on doing this with Full-Race last winter. Some things got in the way of completeing it. I do have manifold jigs to send them with where we mocked up the turbo locations.

It is.. a VERY... TIGHT... FIT.. the EFR turbos are physically MASSIVE even in their smallest form. But definately doable. We had them bolted up on mockup manifolds last winter.

Do a rear mount EFR :p

If a twin scroll setup can be done for the Z34 it will be worth the wait

From a turbo efficiency standpoint, there is not an EFR turbo that would be a good match for a single turbo application. You can review the compressor maps, and BW has a cool application that allows you to match an EFR turbo to your specific needs. You will end up with a turbo that is either choked on the upper end, or really inefficient on the lower end.

BorgWarner MatchBot

It is possible they have expanded their line or I just missed something when I was looking, but when I looked 6 months ago, I could not find a good match for a single turbo application. They had several that would work well in a twin turbo app. As mentioned, the EFR is physically bigger than a comparable turbo, so fitting twins will be tight. If you go this route, I would wait to see what Full Race comes up with.... They mentioned using 6258 or 6758.

Thanks for the input. I will indeed wait it out a bit. Glad to see its possible.

I know this thread is old but....my friend and I are working on getting a twin turbo setup using the EFR-6758 turbos.:driving:

We will be building custom manifolds and piping. My buddy is in the middle of drafting up design's right now as to how everything will fit as well as piece together. We also started speaking wtih Full Race this week and they seem mildly interested in this and are inquiring for more data on the project. :tup:

We are aiming to do the first TOP mount twin turbo for the Z34. We will know more on the possiblities of a top mount after the drafts are done. This project is slated to be completed about a year out though guys so dont get too excited..These turbos are back ordered by 8-10 months.

You do know that they are back ordered for that long due to major quality issues with the turbos (impelers shreading causing engine damage), and EFR having to recall almost all the turbos on the market, right? I would stay away from that brand till they prove themselves, much like Precision turbo did when they started out.

daaaaaamn... wtf:ugh2:

Yes we are well aware of the previous issues. Those issues mostly existed with the first run models primarily the 6258 not the 6758. These are popular in a lot of the other communities and replacements that have been received seem to be holding up quite well when compared to the first run. Warranties exist for a reason. That being said this is still a constant thought in the back of our minds and we are looking into other options(Garrett GT3071R). We are also looking into possible sponsors for this build.

Glad to hear that you are aware of the issus. It would be tought to build a system around the EFR turbos (unique plumbing configuration), then have issues, and have to change the entire system as a result.

No worries I appreciate the friendly forum support :tup:

I will be confronting them tomorrow as to the scope of the issue but from everyone I have talked to that has had the failure and has talked to BW about the issue they have been told it is limited to the 6258 which oddly enough are the only ones I have seen have this problem. Trust me %90 of this kit will be custom and it will be a sad day if we have to make any last minute changes.

Good luck with your setup! Its always nice to see someone do something different and be a pioneer for something that can be great. In for updates and pics whenever they may be. Should be a nasty setup ;)

in for more

Subed

sent from my SAMSUNG- SINGLE TURBO SGH-1717

question... who here is proficient enough to properly fill out the Matchbot.. I had some questions

I did the matchbot and you were right there is no good match for a single turbo. The 6758 is about as close to perfect as you will probably get for twins though. It sucks not being able to put more boost through this motor. Im used to running 25-30psi through my old Cobalt

Hey all, Been a busy past two days between work and then dealing with this stuff.

Anyways we heard back from Full Race about the turbos...

They have recommended us to use the 6258's over the 6758's. We are still deciding on which way to go though... The 6258's will pretty much be instant spool on the VQ however they will be limited slightly as we approach redline. The power will taper off around 7100rpms if our math is right. Redline is also going to be at 8000rpms so we really have to be sure with our choice here. These are also good for applications up to 900whp. The 6758's will spool a little later but have power throughout the entire powerband. These are good for up to 1000hp. I like my instant low end power compared to top end so I am leaning towards the 6258's.lol I will post the email that I had from Raffi at full race with more details on these turbos.

He also explained the first run turbo issues and how they fixed them and why they have not gone public yet.

Basically the issue is certainly fixed. They used too weak of an alloy for the fusion bond performed on the turbine wheel and the shaft. They have since found a way to physically bond the two together giving it stability and reliabiltiy. They have gone through alot of testing since then, including running them on the Izod indy car this year. So torture tests have been quite thorough :tup:
Anyways he included many details on how all this was done but will not publicly post as they do not want other vendors getting in on this actions.

I am more now than ever completely confident in my future purchase from Full Race.

Also my buddy has done some drafting and he has atleast two ways that we will be able to fit these bad boys in there and do a twin top mount turbo :happydance:

There is a slight issue however...Since we do not have physically models to play we cannot be certain but the hood may not have enough clearance over the turbos. Will keep you guys posted though. Even doing hard measurements it is hard to see how everything will sit exactly when fully hooked up.

you can run more boost.. just need to build it first

:iagree:
Also, different engines and setups. You run that much boost on a VQ3.7L and you will be in the 800HP range which will require a good bit of other upgrades.
Definitely looking forward to results on this EFR setup, going top mount is going to be tough as I think you will run into hood issues though a custom hood would be nice. :tup:

Lmao hoods are lame who needs um!

Yeah we will know hopefully soon enough as to what clearance will be like. But oh well what's another mod amongst many at that point haha.

Also guys if we are successful and people are interested er will be up for selling the custom manifolds and piping and hell even a full kit if we get serious.


Also as promised here is part of an email.


Okay well knowing what you are wanting, the 6758s would not be the proper size.* The 6258s would be the right way to go.* Ill elaborate on the turbine wheel issue a little further down.* As for the power, the 6258 would easily make 500whp and would also be able to make up to 900whp.* What we have been seeing from the EFRs as a whole is that the turbo is actually making the "rated HP" to the wheels which means that after the parasitic drivetrain loss, its still able to achieve what its rated at.* The reason is because the turbos design and aero is much more advanced than what we have seen in the past.* In the past we would equate HP with LBS/MIN. so for example the gt3071 is rated at 46-49lbs/min and you would multiply that X 10 and get 460hp.. so the industry standard up until the EFR was 10hp per LB/MIN.* By the time that you installed the gt3071 and dyno'd the car, it would not make any more than 410ish whp depending on the tune and other variables (altitude, comp ratio, etc.) But with the EFR, the 6258 is only rated at 43-44lbs/min yet is making a consistent 450whp on a single turbo setup.* So the standard LB/MIN X 10 is more along the lines of X 12..

2 of the 6258s on the vq will be spot on and you would love the spool times and transient response for sure.

If you guys are in the market for a custom hood let me know.. I design them :p (Shameless plug over)

It's really good to see more options/advancements being made!

Thanks man. I will have to keep that in mind.:tup:

Also clean out your dang inbox so I can reply to you haha

Would like to know more...

emptied sir! :tiphat:

Update on the compressor map from Full Race as well as how the EBCs work.

As for your first email,* I would be willing to bet that you somehow improperly equated for the choke point since a .64a/r volute per banked 3 cylinders would not have a choke point at that rpm.* That would be just like running an EFR 9180ish turbo but with a 1.45a/r turbine housing if you were to convert the specs from a twin turbo to a twin scroll setup.* You have more than enough exhaust flow for a twin configuration.* The boost control solenoids are no different than the ones you get when you get an electronic boost controller and would be plumbed the same way.* We do offer the pigtails and I have also listed them on the estimate for your review.


Also the price quote was a little scary so were checking on two more retailers.lol also considering another turbo. Will keep you all posted.

Still looking for sponsors. You would be surprised how much even a little bit of the green stuff would jump start this project. After all we are just two regular joes working out of a home garage. This isn't some big shop haha :tup:

Got on the reservation list for the EFR 6258's. I got another email from Full Race confirming that the 6258's are the better choice. We redid some math and the compressor map for these in a twin setup will pull all the way to redline. :tup:

I am very excited to get this project kicked off. I have never had the oppurtunity for anything like this. Hell even the stock370z was a huge deal. My only two previous cars were a 1994 Buick and a 2006 Malibu Maxx.lol

I will try to keep this thread as updated as possible but since this will be a very drawn out build there will be time when there are maybe a week or two of no updates.

Also for those of you already boosted, what are your preferences on Clutch&Flywheel replacements? I dont need a swap right away as were only aiming for 500whp but the end goal once the engine is rebuilt is to run 700-750whp and that will require some other stuff to be upgraded.

you are in the same realm as myself, and my plans.. but OS Giken is the clutch/flywheel I went with...

im still waiting on that pm :p

Sweet thanks for the recommendation.

I was sending from my phone yesterday guess it didnt go thorugh.
Response inbound! :tiphat:

Thank's bro! :hello:

Update: Were looking at a December purchase date. Got quoted $3200 for both turbos when they arrive in December. Were looking for other quotes from other vendors. So if there are any Vendors or shops who sponsor here who want to have their name associated with this build and want to give us a better price we are willing to listen to offers. If not we will have the turbos in December :tup: