Stillen or gtm supercharger?

NYBladeZ · 08-02-2011, 02:05 PM

The expansion of power using the SC still requires cracking and tuning VVEL, any progress on that?

Nismo370 · 08-02-2011, 02:22 PM

Lol don't hold your breath. I think Uprev will crack it first.

theDreamer · 08-02-2011, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nismo370

Lol don't hold your breath. I think Uprev will crack it first.

Really? Because last time I talked to them they were not interested in working on VVEL.

SAM@GTM · 08-02-2011, 02:37 PM

Having the ability to tune the VVEL and have full control over the ECU will always bring advantages to the table. But at what price will it be worth it?

Let's say for example, we threw a Motec on this engine and had full control over it. Is the cost worth the extra control?

Looking at the dyno graph this is a Picasso. Can more control make it better? That remains to be seen.

As for the VVEL progress, we did run into a little snag with the hardware we are using. Our intention was to be very cost conscious of the system we offer. Unfortunately, the company that was supplying the hardware folded up shop so we are working on Plan B.

Plan B involves a lot more than just a VVEL controller. Long term, we will be developing a universal full standalone EMS option similar to the HKS FCon V-Pro. A system like that does require a lot of time to develop so please be patient while we get this going.

As far as Uprev working on VVEL control, I really hope they do because it would be the most affordable option. However, like theDreamer said, they aren't interested in working on it at this point.

NYBladeZ · 08-02-2011, 02:46 PM

Figure, with the stage 2 you're probably at the stock block's safe limits as it is. You're probably going to want to build the block before exceeding the aforementioned posted results, thus you're probably going to run a stand alone like the F-Con anyway. How does the F-Con match up with VVEL right now? Does it allow for additional tuning capabilities?

Mike@GTM · 08-02-2011, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYBladeZ

Figure, with the stage 2 you're probably at the stock block's safe limits as it is. You're probably going to want to build the block before exceeding the aforementioned posted results, thus you're probably going to run a stand alone like the F-Con anyway. How does the F-Con match up with VVEL right now? Does it allow for additional tuning capabilities?

For long term reliability, I'd say the Stage 2 is right where you want it to be as it is.

The F-Con has no control over VVEL.

Osiris · 08-02-2011, 03:22 PM

@OP - buy my Stillen SC so i can buy a GTM TT.

Nismo370 · 08-02-2011, 04:02 PM

I heard the F-Con isn't as advanced as our ECUs are and I was told to stay away from it.

Mr.Squeeze · 08-02-2011, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike@GTM

Considering that the Stillen Kit does not come with the 928 Impeller or a T-Trim it's comparing apples to oranges.

I was specifically addressing the comment regarding the base Vortech blower in the Stillen kit being bigger than the base C38-91 Rotrex blower in our Stage 2 kit.

In fact, my comparison of the Vortech T-trim we did in this thread: GT Motorsports: 500rwhp/455rwtq Vortech T-Trim, FCon VPro, GTM Built Engine - Page 2 - MY350Z.COM Forums is apples to oranges as well. The main point of me mentioning that particular build was to illustrate that the Vortech simply cannot handle spinning that high for very long. Remember, that car ended up going through 3 blower failures.

As far as the 928 impeller being better, that is an additional cost to the base Stillen kit and causes you to lose the warranty that Stillen offers. Even with the 928 impeller, the graphs speak for themselves:

GTM Stage 2 Supercharger Kit

Here's your graph from your thread.

Please don't take this the wrong way as I really commend you for pushing the envelope with the Stillen setup.

Since you are the only person with the 928 impeller on a 370Z, I have couple questions.

1) Do you think it was worth going this route? Would you recommend it to other guys with the Stillen kit?

2) Are you maxed out with your setup or do you think there's more in it? The reason I ask, is I don't know what your impeller speed is at redline. How much more can you spin that blower?

Ok to answer your questions

1.I dont think it was worth it because the piston in cylinder #2 took a dump on me I am building my motor now. All other were fine showed no signs of detonation in any other cylinder. Also the price and out the box performance is another reason, my kit was used thats the only reason I have it now.

2.No I am not maxed out my impeller speed is 56000 rpms at red line. I can go to 60k with the impeller, the ABEC 7 bearings in the unit are rated to 59k. What may limit me is the design like it did on my first set up.

My first set up had issue's my MAF's maxed out way before red line 6700 rpm's. My boost was all over the place I know this killed my power.

Take a look at the boost log from my dyno graph as a example. As you can see it's up and down,had it been leiner without dips and maxed out maf's. I have no doubt that it would have made way more power.

The reason I made my first post in response to what you said about the blower.

For another apples to oranges comparison here is a Gintani the S65 engine has a very high volumetric efficiency.This proves that you can make power on a engine with high VE,what is holding th Stillen kit back is design.

Vortech. Gintani Stage 2+ "New" Dyno Results... - BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3)

Mr.Squeeze · 08-02-2011, 05:02 PM

Also Mike when you say the blower failed 3 times what failed impeller bearing? Because on a DE non rev-up with 6600 redline your not over spinning a T Trim with a 2.87 pulley.

With the volumetric efficiency of this engine it would make a way more power with larger
displacement. The 3.7 would do wonders if it was strong the same can be said for the DE.

At that point though better of going with a set of Turbo's witch is what i plan to do once I max this set up out.

Mike@GTM · 08-02-2011, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Squeeze

Also Mike when you say the blower failed 3 times what failed impeller bearing? Because on a DE non rev-up with 6600 redline your not over spinning a T Trim with a 2.87 pulley.

With the volumetric efficiency of this engine it would make a way more power with larger
displacement. The 3.7 would do wonders if it was strong the same can be said for the DE.

At that point though better of going with a set of Turbo's witch is what i plan to do once I max this set up out.

First off, I'm very sorry to hear about your motor. Odd that it was only cylinder number 2 that failed. Any theories as to why?

As far as the blower failure, yes, it was the bearings. We didn't think we were overspinning it either and our math showed that. However, Vortech was adamant that we were overspinning it and refused the warranty (the blower wasn't even 3 months old at the last failure). The biggest problem was that it was a V-2 unit and of course when it took a crap, it took the motor with it. When Vortech denied the warranty, the customer was done and washed his hands of the whole supercharger business and went with our Twin Turbo system that he is enjoying to this day.

I wish you luck with your build!

Mr.Squeeze · 08-02-2011, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike@GTM

First off, I'm very sorry to hear about your motor. Odd that it was only cylinder number 2 that failed. Any theories as to why?

As far as the blower failure, yes, it was the bearings. We didn't think we were overspinning it either and our math showed that. However, Vortech was adamant that we were overspinning it and refused the warranty (the blower wasn't even 3 months old at the last failure). The biggest problem was that it was a V-2 unit and of course when it took a crap, it took the motor with it. When Vortech denied the warranty, the customer was done and washed his hands of the whole supercharger business and went with our Twin Turbo system that he is enjoying to this day.

I wish you luck with your build!

One of injector's for that faild a flow test, the day my motor started smoking I got a misfire code.After looking at some log's with uprev and doing to calulations. I dont like where my duty cycle is so I am going with a bigger set this time around.As the days went the car started smoking more and ,we yanked the motor out in about 5-6 hours.The engine is being assembled now took forever to get all the parts.I am tempted to do a Turbo set up now but I am curios to see the end result.

I remember a while back Vortech had a bunch of bad blower's that was going around that sucks for the customers car you worked on.

Jamaica · 08-02-2011, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Squeeze

One of injector's for that faild a flow test, the day my motor started smoking I got a misfire code.After looking at some log's with uprev and doing to calulations. I dont like where my duty cycle is so I am going with a bigger set this time around.As the days went the car started smoking more and ,we yanked the motor out in about 5-6 hours.The engine is being assembled now took forever to get all the parts.I am tempted to do a Turbo set up now but I am curios to see the end result.

I remember a while back Vortech had a bunch of bad blower's that was going around that sucks for the customers car you worked on.

Wow that's crazy

Abdiel · 08-04-2011, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAM@GTM

H
As far as Uprev working on VVEL control, I really hope they do because it would be the most affordable option. However, like theDreamer said, they aren't interested in working on it at this point.

interesting...

We are currently working on support for VHR cams

NYBladeZ · 08-04-2011, 10:55 AM

fingers crossed, champagne shall pour from the heavens the day someone has a cost effective crack to VVEL

08-02-2011, 02:05 PM	#16 (permalink)
NYBladeZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: New York Posts: 2,158 Drives: Lotus Exige S Rep Power: 20	The expansion of power using the SC still requires cracking and tuning VVEL, any progress on that? __________________ 2009 Carbon Fiber/Red 370z aka Trish: Sports Package, Meisterschaft full catback, Fast Intentions Longtube Headers, Injen Long Tube Intakes, UpRev Tune: Sold 2008 Lotus Exige S Club Racer aka Bella, always leaves me smiling

08-02-2011, 02:22 PM	#17 (permalink)
Nismo370 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Dont Worry Bout It... Posts: 333 Drives: 09 370Z NismoTT Rep Power: 16	Lol don't hold your breath. I think Uprev will crack it first. __________________ GTM Twin Turbo 583whp 468trq Uncorrected @ 12psi.

08-02-2011, 02:46 PM	#20 (permalink)
NYBladeZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: New York Posts: 2,158 Drives: Lotus Exige S Rep Power: 20	Figure, with the stage 2 you're probably at the stock block's safe limits as it is. You're probably going to want to build the block before exceeding the aforementioned posted results, thus you're probably going to run a stand alone like the F-Con anyway. How does the F-Con match up with VVEL right now? Does it allow for additional tuning capabilities? __________________ 2009 Carbon Fiber/Red 370z aka Trish: Sports Package, Meisterschaft full catback, Fast Intentions Longtube Headers, Injen Long Tube Intakes, UpRev Tune: Sold 2008 Lotus Exige S Club Racer aka Bella, always leaves me smiling

08-02-2011, 03:22 PM	#22 (permalink)
Osiris A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: http://www.cfzclub.com/ Posts: 1,524 Drives: Angry Rep Power: 19	@OP - buy my Stillen SC so i can buy a GTM TT. __________________ ^^^^^^^^^Like our Facebook!^^^^^^^^^

08-02-2011, 04:02 PM	#23 (permalink)
Nismo370 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Dont Worry Bout It... Posts: 333 Drives: 09 370Z NismoTT Rep Power: 16	I heard the F-Con isn't as advanced as our ECUs are and I was told to stay away from it. __________________ GTM Twin Turbo 583whp 468trq Uncorrected @ 12psi.

08-02-2011, 02:37 PM	#19 (permalink)
SAM@GTM NOT AN ACTIVE SPONSOR. DO NOT BUY Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: CALIFORNIA Posts: 913 Drives: 370Z Rep Power: 17	Having the ability to tune the VVEL and have full control over the ECU will always bring advantages to the table. But at what price will it be worth it? Let's say for example, we threw a Motec on this engine and had full control over it. Is the cost worth the extra control? Looking at the dyno graph this is a Picasso. Can more control make it better? That remains to be seen. As for the VVEL progress, we did run into a little snag with the hardware we are using. Our intention was to be very cost conscious of the system we offer. Unfortunately, the company that was supplying the hardware folded up shop so we are working on Plan B. Plan B involves a lot more than just a VVEL controller. Long term, we will be developing a universal full standalone EMS option similar to the HKS FCon V-Pro. A system like that does require a lot of time to develop so please be patient while we get this going. As far as Uprev working on VVEL control, I really hope they do because it would be the most affordable option. However, like theDreamer said, they aren't interested in working on it at this point.

08-02-2011, 05:02 PM	#25 (permalink)
Mr.Squeeze A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Keystone state Posts: 1,209 Drives: 2010 370z Rep Power: 20153	Also Mike when you say the blower failed 3 times what failed impeller bearing? Because on a DE non rev-up with 6600 redline your not over spinning a T Trim with a 2.87 pulley. With the volumetric efficiency of this engine it would make a way more power with larger displacement. The 3.7 would do wonders if it was strong the same can be said for the DE. At that point though better of going with a set of Turbo's witch is what i plan to do once I max this set up out. __________________ Driven Motorsports Single Turbo 7675 T4 1.32 A/R 995WHP 780TQ

08-04-2011, 10:55 AM	#30 (permalink)
NYBladeZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: New York Posts: 2,158 Drives: Lotus Exige S Rep Power: 20	fingers crossed, champagne shall pour from the heavens the day someone has a cost effective crack to VVEL __________________ 2009 Carbon Fiber/Red 370z aka Trish: Sports Package, Meisterschaft full catback, Fast Intentions Longtube Headers, Injen Long Tube Intakes, UpRev Tune: Sold 2008 Lotus Exige S Club Racer aka Bella, always leaves me smiling

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
stillen supercharger with a different exhaust?	karamountzos	Nissan 370Z General Discussions	17	01-28-2017 12:21 PM
DIY Stillen Supercharger	wortmeister	DIY Section (Do-It-Yourself)	23	06-21-2013 08:37 PM
Oil for Stillen Supercharger	willtangclan	Forced Induction	2	06-06-2011 06:09 PM
Stillen Supercharger kit!	370Ztune	Drivetrain/Engine	8	07-23-2010 07:20 PM