Nissan 370Z Forum  

Turbo 370z Supercar?

Originally Posted by Vinny Say what you will, but classification as "supercar" or "race car" at the end of the day is just classification. With enough money invested, you CAN

Go Back   Nissan 370Z Forum > Nissan 370Z Tech Area > Engine & Drivetrain > Forced Induction


Like Tree16Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-05-2011, 01:53 PM   #1 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
Red__Zed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: window seat
Posts: 28,940
Drives: Mostly on two wheels
Rep Power: 120
Red__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
Say what you will, but classification as "supercar" or "race car" at the end of the day is just classification. With enough money invested, you CAN outperform and outhandle a so-called supercar. I would rather spend 100k on my Z and make it unique and mint, and still be able to outperform a good bunch of "supercars".
But this is all my opinion. It all depends on preference. If you want a Ferrari, don't buy a Z and build it to try and be on par with one, just save up and buy a Ferrari.

If you love your z, you can build it (if you're willing and able financially) to beat what you want it to beat.

In the end, when you talk about tuning cars, the Z or any other car for that matter is just a platform. What you do to it, what it ends up being capable of is entirely up to you.

What supercar are you going to outperform with 100k in your z?
wideglideleon likes this.
Red__Zed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2011, 02:09 PM   #2 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
Cmike2780's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Long Island
Posts: 5,059
Drives: slowwww
Rep Power: 29
Cmike2780 has a reputation beyond reputeCmike2780 has a reputation beyond reputeCmike2780 has a reputation beyond reputeCmike2780 has a reputation beyond reputeCmike2780 has a reputation beyond reputeCmike2780 has a reputation beyond reputeCmike2780 has a reputation beyond reputeCmike2780 has a reputation beyond reputeCmike2780 has a reputation beyond reputeCmike2780 has a reputation beyond reputeCmike2780 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red__Zed View Post
What supercar are you going to outperform with 100k in your z?
Surprisingly not that complex a formula. Less weight, better brakes, improved suspension, better tires, fine tuning and of course more power. A lot of the premium that goes into supercars is because of the pedigree. The fastest car at this years Goodwood Festival of Speed for example was a highly modified Toyota Celica. All things being equal though, I'd still take a slower Aston Martin over a wicked fast Celica any day.
__________________
[09][MB][6-Spd MT][Touring][Stillen Gen III][K&N][Borla CBE][Evo-R]

Cmike2780 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2011, 02:11 PM   #3 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
Red__Zed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: window seat
Posts: 28,940
Drives: Mostly on two wheels
Rep Power: 120
Red__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cmike2780 View Post
Surprisingly not that complex a formula. Less weight, better brakes, improved suspension, better tires, fine tuning and of course more power. A lot of the premium that goes into supercars is because of the pedigree. The fastest car at this years Goodwood Festival of Speed for example was a highly modified Toyota Celica. All things being equal though, I'd still take a slower Aston Martin over a wicked fast Celica any day.
Doesn't answer my question.
Red__Zed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2011, 02:28 PM   #4 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
Cmike2780's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Long Island
Posts: 5,059
Drives: slowwww
Rep Power: 29
Cmike2780 has a reputation beyond reputeCmike2780 has a reputation beyond reputeCmike2780 has a reputation beyond reputeCmike2780 has a reputation beyond reputeCmike2780 has a reputation beyond reputeCmike2780 has a reputation beyond reputeCmike2780 has a reputation beyond reputeCmike2780 has a reputation beyond reputeCmike2780 has a reputation beyond reputeCmike2780 has a reputation beyond reputeCmike2780 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red__Zed View Post
Doesn't answer my question.
err...ok, what do you mean by "outperform" ? Around a track? in a straight line on a strip? @ picking up hookers?

A straight line win would be the easy part..

Just an example,how about a stock Ferrari 430? I mean if a race spec RX-8 can be built to compete & win against a race spec Ferrari F430 Challenge in the Rolex Sports Car Series along with a sorts of 911's, I don't see how $100k or more into a Z wouldn't make in competative. All theortical of course since the closest version is the GS class AM Performance 370z.
__________________
[09][MB][6-Spd MT][Touring][Stillen Gen III][K&N][Borla CBE][Evo-R]

Cmike2780 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2011, 02:22 PM   #5 (permalink)
Base Member
 
Vinny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Montreal, Qc
Posts: 246
Drives: 09 Fairlady Z tt
Rep Power: 15
Vinny is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cmike2780 View Post
Surprisingly not that complex a formula. Less weight, better brakes, improved suspension, better tires, fine tuning and of course more power. A lot of the premium that goes into supercars is because of the pedigree. The fastest car at this years Goodwood Festival of Speed for example was a highly modified Toyota Celica. All things being equal though, I'd still take a slower Aston Martin over a wicked fast Celica any day.
^^ this.
Like I said, it's a matter of opinion. With enough money, you can make almost any car do anything. You can be stubborn and say "no Z will ever beat any supercar", but the fact of the matter is that a civic is not in the same "classification" as a Z, but don't be surprised to see a modified one spanking you around a track. Same goes for a Z and an Aston Martin, or Ferrari, or whatever. You may never want to classify a Z as a supercar, but it CAN outperform supercars with enough investment.

There are almost not limitations in the tuner world these days. You can have a custom tranny made, swap a gtr engine forged with nice big turbos, suspension mods, stripped, nice big brakes, etc.. (you get the idea) What are you left with? A lighter, faster, smaller GTR.
What you need to understand is that cars are platforms these days.
__________________
540whp @ 10.5 psi
Vinny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2011, 02:33 PM   #6 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
Red__Zed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: window seat
Posts: 28,940
Drives: Mostly on two wheels
Rep Power: 120
Red__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
^^ this.
Like I said, it's a matter of opinion. With enough money, you can make almost any car do anything. You can be stubborn and say "no Z will ever beat any supercar", but the fact of the matter is that a civic is not in the same "classification" as a Z, but don't be surprised to see a modified one spanking you around a track. Same goes for a Z and an Aston Martin, or Ferrari, or whatever. You may never want to classify a Z as a supercar, but it CAN outperform supercars with enough investment.

There are almost not limitations in the tuner world these days. You can have a custom tranny made, swap a gtr engine forged with nice big turbos, suspension mods, stripped, nice big brakes, etc.. (you get the idea) What are you left with? A lighter, faster, smaller GTR.
What you need to understand is that cars are platforms these days.
Thanks for the lesson on modding cars. I had no idea it worked like that....


Problem is, we aren't in a video game, and we have to deal with platform limitations. Fact is, 100k doesn't get a z into territory where it is competitive with supercars... It barely allows for basic setup... Nothing leftover for researching new gemoetries or providing structural reinfOrcement.
Red__Zed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2011, 10:06 AM   #7 (permalink)
Enthusiast Member
 
Reality's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 290
Drives: '06 PPW GT
Rep Power: 17
Reality is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cmike2780 View Post
Surprisingly not that complex a formula. Less weight, better brakes, improved suspension, better tires, fine tuning and of course more power. A lot of the premium that goes into supercars is because of the pedigree. The fastest car at this years Goodwood Festival of Speed for example was a highly modified Toyota Celica. All things being equal though, I'd still take a slower Aston Martin over a wicked fast Celica any day.
LoL! that corolla race motor probably had more than $100k invested into it.
__________________
//2005 35th SB #81 [tyra] SOLD
//2006 GT PPW SOLD
Reality is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2011, 10:08 AM   #8 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
Cmike2780's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Long Island
Posts: 5,059
Drives: slowwww
Rep Power: 29
Cmike2780 has a reputation beyond reputeCmike2780 has a reputation beyond reputeCmike2780 has a reputation beyond reputeCmike2780 has a reputation beyond reputeCmike2780 has a reputation beyond reputeCmike2780 has a reputation beyond reputeCmike2780 has a reputation beyond reputeCmike2780 has a reputation beyond reputeCmike2780 has a reputation beyond reputeCmike2780 has a reputation beyond reputeCmike2780 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reality View Post
LoL! that corolla Celica race motor probably had more than $100k invested into it.
lol, that's not my point.
__________________
[09][MB][6-Spd MT][Touring][Stillen Gen III][K&N][Borla CBE][Evo-R]

Cmike2780 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2011, 03:39 PM   #9 (permalink)
Base Member
 
Vinny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Montreal, Qc
Posts: 246
Drives: 09 Fairlady Z tt
Rep Power: 15
Vinny is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red__Zed View Post
What supercar are you going to outperform with 100k in your z?
^^ This?
__________________
540whp @ 10.5 psi
Vinny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2011, 03:43 PM   #10 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
Red__Zed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: window seat
Posts: 28,940
Drives: Mostly on two wheels
Rep Power: 120
Red__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
^^ This?
100k is pushing it. Maybe you'll beat some outdated cars on that build, but nothing bleeding edge.
Red__Zed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2011, 02:06 PM   #11 (permalink)
Enthusiast Member
 
Brutal 370Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Greater Toronto Area
Posts: 357
Drives: 11' MB/Pers/6M/S/Nav
Rep Power: 14
Brutal 370Z will become famous soon enough
Default

When I think supercar, I think exotic exterior/interior...its not all about performance. Even if a Z can outperform a Ferrari, its not considered in the same class as a Ferrari.
__________________
Stillen G3/CBE/HFC, Nismo S-tune Front Chin Spoiler, 20% tint, Password JDM V2 Shift Knob
Brutal 370Z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2011, 02:52 PM   #12 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
Econ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New York City
Posts: 2,546
Drives: Fiat?
Rep Power: 20
Econ is a jewel in the roughEcon is a jewel in the roughEcon is a jewel in the roughEcon is a jewel in the rough
Default

in trying to turn the Z into a "supercar" you will need to completley swap out everthing that makes a Z a Z...

imo you no longer have a Z...you might as well have bought a ferrari and paid the $100k+ to mold the Z body parts onto the ferrari frame.
__________________
2014 Triumph Thruxton 900
2013 Fiat 500 Abarth
2009 Nissan 370z
Econ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2011, 02:54 PM   #13 (permalink)
Base Member
 
Vinny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Montreal, Qc
Posts: 246
Drives: 09 Fairlady Z tt
Rep Power: 15
Vinny is on a distinguished road
Default

We're talking about street legal now? And interior? Geez, it's like arguing with a mule!
Put it this way: Mr. X is a billionaire. He catches a glimpse of a Z and falls in love with it. He sends it to shop Y, and says, I don't care how much it costs, make it faster around a track than a stock GTR. Or a ferrari F430. Or an aston martin.
You're gonna tell me that there is no possible way for this to be done?
I can't figure out if you're just trolling or actually this stubborn.. You asked what supercar the Z would beat around a track.. Now that you realize you were wrong, you say "Interior! Street legal!"
Please. Wake up.
__________________
540whp @ 10.5 psi

Last edited by Vinny; 07-05-2011 at 02:56 PM.
Vinny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2011, 03:05 PM   #14 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
Red__Zed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: window seat
Posts: 28,940
Drives: Mostly on two wheels
Rep Power: 120
Red__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond reputeRed__Zed has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
We're talking about street legal now? And interior? Geez, it's like arguing with a mule!
Put it this way: Mr. X is a billionaire. He catches a glimpse of a Z and falls in love with it. He sends it to shop Y, and says, I don't care how much it costs, make it faster around a track than a stock GTR. Or a ferrari F430. Or an aston martin.
You're gonna tell me that there is no possible way for this to be done?
I can't figure out if you're just trolling or actually this stubborn.. You asked what supercar the Z would beat around a track.. Now that you realize you were wrong, you say "Interior! Street legal!"
Please. Wake up.
You claim with $100k, your Z should be considered a supercar, since it is in supercar territory. I'm saying it won't be in supercar territory. It may be faster around track XYZ, but it is not supercar competitive.
*
To be considered a supercar, most would say a car should:
-Look good
-Have overwhelming gobs of power
-Handle extremely well
-Maintain some semblance of drivability to keep the clientele happy
-be priced accordingly.
*
A race spec Z misses out on point 4. Additionally, it fails the street legal test. If you don't care about street legality and want to go fast, a kit car might be the way to go...you could get something similar to an ariel atom fabbed up with a Z body kit for a lot less than full race prep.
*
With modification to the Z, there are a ton of platform limitations you will run into. One is engine placement. No matter what you do, the Z's weight distribution is going to be mediocre. Start talking FI or a swap and you've got even more weight up front.
*
Structurcal stiffness is another component. Just the man-hours to properly stitch weld...well, they won't be cheap.
*
*And then there is the issue of the "fat pig" nature of the Z.... the construction really prevents it*from ever being light enough to be competitive. No matter how much crap you strip out, the car won't be much under 3100 lbs loaded.
*
*
Red__Zed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2011, 03:13 PM   #15 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
Econ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New York City
Posts: 2,546
Drives: Fiat?
Rep Power: 20
Econ is a jewel in the roughEcon is a jewel in the roughEcon is a jewel in the roughEcon is a jewel in the rough
Default

i think craftmanship come more into play with supercars...

look at cars made by Spyker....the new aileron is very similiar to the Z in performance, and without a doubt is considered a "supercar"

0-60 - 4.5
1/4 - 14.3
Weight - 3150 lbs
HP - 400
Price: $210,000

i think the build process and limited number of cars made is just as much what makes a supercar a supercar as is performance.
__________________
2014 Triumph Thruxton 900
2013 Fiat 500 Abarth
2009 Nissan 370z
Econ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Z versus the SuperCar Club BrianMSmith Nissan 370Z General Discussions 18 07-27-2010 05:00 PM
Supercar Sunday KillerBee370 Southern California Region 13 07-06-2010 04:37 PM
V8 Supercar rides available BGTV8 Australia/New Zealand 0 04-30-2010 03:56 AM
Supercar Sunday 6/28/09! KillerBee370 Southern California Region 11 07-21-2009 11:17 PM
PICS-Supercar Sunday 7/12/09 scsz Other Vehicles 5 07-13-2009 05:03 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2