Nissan 370Z Forum  

GTM 370z supercharger 550bhp/400 ft of Torque: The Masterpiece

Originally Posted by Staples I've posted an explanation on another thread, can't find it... here's a brief copied and pasted explanation. The VVEL system in our cars and extremely aggressive

Go Back   Nissan 370Z Forum > Nissan 370Z Tech Area > Engine & Drivetrain > Forced Induction


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-15-2011, 12:54 PM   #16 (permalink)
Lug
A True Z Fanatic
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,926
Drives: 2006 350Z
Rep Power: 19
Lug is a splendid one to beholdLug is a splendid one to beholdLug is a splendid one to beholdLug is a splendid one to beholdLug is a splendid one to beholdLug is a splendid one to beholdLug is a splendid one to behold
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Staples View Post
I've posted an explanation on another thread, can't find it... here's a brief copied and pasted explanation.

The VVEL system in our cars and extremely aggressive at about a 300 cam duration;

Valve Overlap

"The portion of the operating cycle of a reciprocating engine in which, when the piston is passing TDC (top dead center) on the exhaust stroke, both the intake and exhaust valves are open. Valve overlap increases the efficiency of the engine operation by allowing the low pressure caused by the exhaust gases leaving the cylinder to help the fresh charge of fuel-air mixture in the induction system to start moving into the engine."

When you're pushing so much air into a car (forced induction) with an aggressive cam - there's air that isn't going to be used and is just going to pushed out of the motor and wasted because both the intake / exhaust valves are open at the same-time. Drop the cam duration, you'll have more time between the valve overlap process so when the air enters the head it will give the bottom end enough time to use that air for the combustion process, building more psi, creating more power.

Let me know if there's anything I'm incorrect about, but that's what I've gathered.
So in essence a more free flowing exhaust system could effect SC performance if you are using the VVEL system. That could explain some weired results we've seen in SC'ed cars so far.
__________________
keep Chubbs in your pocket - Chubbs
Lug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2011, 01:00 PM   #17 (permalink)
BLM
Enthusiast Member
 
BLM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: NJ
Posts: 342
Drives: 2011 Silver M6 sport
Rep Power: 14
BLM will become famous soon enough
Default

So then, LTH/TP + SC + VVEL <<< LTH/TP + SC + 'cracked' VVEL??

I get it now. These were tested with stock cats. More resistance to exhaust flow = more time in combustion chamber = best you can do with SC + VVEL. Sorry I had to write that out. Went to an engineering school but was not an engineer. Pretty much exactly what Mike said post #2.
__________________
K&N // GTM // BERK

Last edited by BLM; 03-15-2011 at 01:03 PM.
BLM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2011, 10:43 PM   #18 (permalink)
Track Member
 
Staples's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 546
Drives: '08 Infiniti G37s
Rep Power: 16
Staples is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lug View Post
So in essence a more free flowing exhaust system could effect SC performance if you are using the VVEL system. That could explain some weired results we've seen in SC'ed cars so far.
The supercharger runs off of backpressure, that's why more boost / power was made with the stock cats rather then longtube headers, reduce backpressure lose boost.
__________________
'08 Infiniti G37s - Forced Induction Fed
Staples is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2011, 05:47 AM   #19 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
1slow370's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: In the D
Posts: 3,732
Drives: v8 74 260z ;)
Rep Power: 7251
1slow370 has a reputation beyond repute1slow370 has a reputation beyond repute1slow370 has a reputation beyond repute1slow370 has a reputation beyond repute1slow370 has a reputation beyond repute1slow370 has a reputation beyond repute1slow370 has a reputation beyond repute1slow370 has a reputation beyond repute1slow370 has a reputation beyond repute1slow370 has a reputation beyond repute1slow370 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

they don't run off back pressure, to much is still a bad thing as then you start to trap exhaust in the cylinder instead of more fresh air mixture. the breathing mechanics are complicated. basically what you want is enough duration and lift on the exhaust that the engine pumps out most of the exhaust gasses, but on our cars which are tuned for n/a the valve overlap between the exhaust and intake valves allows the now compressed air charge to escape with the exhaust before the valve closes. all that is really needed is to bump the intake cam timing backward to reduce the overlap but with vvel you have to do both or nothing or else you risk the valves hitting the piston due to the high lift.
__________________
ANSWER PRICE LIST
Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75
Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25
Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50
1slow370 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2011, 04:57 PM   #20 (permalink)
Base Member
 
gleonard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 196
Drives: 370z Touring/Spt 6sp
Rep Power: 16
gleonard has a spectacular aura aboutgleonard has a spectacular aura aboutgleonard has a spectacular aura about
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1slow370 View Post
they don't run off back pressure, to much is still a bad thing as then you start to trap exhaust in the cylinder instead of more fresh air mixture. the breathing mechanics are complicated. basically what you want is enough duration and lift on the exhaust that the engine pumps out most of the exhaust gasses, but on our cars which are tuned for n/a the valve overlap between the exhaust and intake valves allows the now compressed air charge to escape with the exhaust before the valve closes. all that is really needed is to bump the intake cam timing backward to reduce the overlap but with vvel you have to do both or nothing or else you risk the valves hitting the piston due to the high lift.
sounds like you need new cam shafts all together with the cam lobes in different locations specifically customized for each individual car's set up.
__________________
gleonard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2011, 06:06 AM   #21 (permalink)
Base Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: texas
Posts: 21
Drives: 91 300zx WTF fast
Rep Power: 14
darron is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gleonard View Post
sounds like you need new cam shafts all together with the cam lobes in different locations specifically customized for each individual car's set up.
Not with the 370z...the cams are essentialy tunable themselves just waiting on the good-ol-boys at GTM to finish crackin te system for it. CANT WAIT!!!
__________________
"That Z just went from zero to god damn in what the F"
darron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2011, 10:04 PM   #22 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
esfourteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: LI, NY
Posts: 1,375
Drives: 40th TT
Rep Power: 18
esfourteen has much to be proud ofesfourteen has much to be proud ofesfourteen has much to be proud ofesfourteen has much to be proud ofesfourteen has much to be proud ofesfourteen has much to be proud ofesfourteen has much to be proud ofesfourteen has much to be proud ofesfourteen has much to be proud of
Send a message via AIM to esfourteen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by darron View Post
Not with the 370z...the cams are essentialy tunable themselves just waiting on the good-ol-boys at GTM to finish crackin te system for it. CANT WAIT!!!
only the intake cam has VVEL
esfourteen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2011, 10:14 AM   #23 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
Z eliminator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 1,659
Drives: 370 Z 7AT Sports
Rep Power: 19
Z eliminator will become famous soon enough
Default

One "off custom intake ".
how can you claim those #'s with that intake, as the average customer will not have one on his car.
How much more did it make VS the stock intake ?
__________________
12.343 @114.14 . 4.5 stroker motor is now being built. Dec 1 2015.
Z eliminator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2011, 02:44 PM   #24 (permalink)
Lug
A True Z Fanatic
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,926
Drives: 2006 350Z
Rep Power: 19
Lug is a splendid one to beholdLug is a splendid one to beholdLug is a splendid one to beholdLug is a splendid one to beholdLug is a splendid one to beholdLug is a splendid one to beholdLug is a splendid one to behold
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Z eliminator View Post
One "off custom intake ".
how can you claim those #'s with that intake, as the average customer will not have one on his car.
How much more did it make VS the stock intake ?
Read post #2
__________________
keep Chubbs in your pocket - Chubbs
Lug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2011, 04:05 PM   #25 (permalink)
RCZ
A True Z Fanatic
 
RCZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Miami
Posts: 6,403
Drives: '09 370Z
Rep Power: 1119
RCZ has a reputation beyond reputeRCZ has a reputation beyond reputeRCZ has a reputation beyond reputeRCZ has a reputation beyond reputeRCZ has a reputation beyond reputeRCZ has a reputation beyond reputeRCZ has a reputation beyond reputeRCZ has a reputation beyond reputeRCZ has a reputation beyond reputeRCZ has a reputation beyond reputeRCZ has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to RCZ
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Z eliminator View Post
One "off custom intake ".
how can you claim those #'s with that intake, as the average customer will not have one on his car.
How much more did it make VS the stock intake ?
wow, someones neurons are firing. I thought all hope was lost.
RCZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2011, 04:52 PM   #26 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
NYBladeZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 2,158
Drives: Lotus Exige S
Rep Power: 20
NYBladeZ has a spectacular aura aboutNYBladeZ has a spectacular aura about
Default

In the end of it all, the real gains from F.I. be it SC or TT on the VQ37 will not be recognized until VVEL is cracked its that simple. When you are forced to deal with stock cats due to VVEL not allowing you to fine tune timing and fully utilized the compressed air you're just banging around fixing everything else except the real issue. Damn thing is that VVEL seems like a tuning rubix cube that no one has figured out yet but everyone says they are working on.
__________________
2009 Carbon Fiber/Red 370z aka Trish: Sports Package, Meisterschaft full catback, Fast Intentions Longtube Headers, Injen Long Tube Intakes, UpRev Tune: Sold
2008 Lotus Exige S Club Racer aka Bella, always leaves me smiling
NYBladeZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2011, 12:48 AM   #27 (permalink)
Track Member
 
Staples's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 546
Drives: '08 Infiniti G37s
Rep Power: 16
Staples is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYBladeZ View Post
In the end of it all, the real gains from F.I. be it SC or TT on the VQ37 will not be recognized until VVEL is cracked its that simple. When you are forced to deal with stock cats due to VVEL not allowing you to fine tune timing and fully utilized the compressed air you're just banging around fixing everything else except the real issue. Damn thing is that VVEL seems like a tuning rubix cube that no one has figured out yet but everyone says they are working on.
Until then... you have to find ways around it, safely.
__________________
'08 Infiniti G37s - Forced Induction Fed
Staples is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2011, 11:29 PM   #28 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
NYBladeZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 2,158
Drives: Lotus Exige S
Rep Power: 20
NYBladeZ has a spectacular aura aboutNYBladeZ has a spectacular aura about
Default

^^that's a bandaid solution. Fact of the matter is that none of us really know what the VQ37 is capable of until VVEL is cracked. This is a guess but since its going to take a lot of r&d and probably not be something as simple as an UpRev add on I'd guess its going to be expensive. Kind of sucks for guys like me who already bought the uprev and then have to go back and get either an upgraded uprev if that turns out to be the solution or pony up for an additional tuning solution and/or hardware all together.
__________________
2009 Carbon Fiber/Red 370z aka Trish: Sports Package, Meisterschaft full catback, Fast Intentions Longtube Headers, Injen Long Tube Intakes, UpRev Tune: Sold
2008 Lotus Exige S Club Racer aka Bella, always leaves me smiling
NYBladeZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2011, 11:05 AM   #29 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
Z eliminator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 1,659
Drives: 370 Z 7AT Sports
Rep Power: 19
Z eliminator will become famous soon enough
Default

GTM just shipped my stage 2.
Will be here in about 10 days ( has to clear customs ).
the wait is over.
__________________
12.343 @114.14 . 4.5 stroker motor is now being built. Dec 1 2015.
Z eliminator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2011, 12:27 PM   #30 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
Nixlimited's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,235
Drives: 15 GT-R / 11 Prius
Rep Power: 26
Nixlimited has a reputation beyond reputeNixlimited has a reputation beyond reputeNixlimited has a reputation beyond reputeNixlimited has a reputation beyond reputeNixlimited has a reputation beyond reputeNixlimited has a reputation beyond reputeNixlimited has a reputation beyond reputeNixlimited has a reputation beyond reputeNixlimited has a reputation beyond reputeNixlimited has a reputation beyond reputeNixlimited has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Z eliminator View Post
GTM just shipped my stage 2.
Will be here in about 10 days ( has to clear customs ).
the wait is over.
Congrats dude. Looking forward to finally seeing what your car will put down at the strip.
__________________
Car Sold! Pleasure being a part of the Z community.
New ride: 2015 GT-R - 647 WHP / 641 WTQ (e85) & 543 WHP / 519 WTQ (91)
Nixlimited is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Which exhaust give highest Hp-torque for 370z OhYeah Intake/Exhaust 28 01-07-2015 06:48 PM
DDMotorsports Shop 370Z Baseline Dyno - UGLY Torque Curve M.Bonanni Nissan 370Z General Discussions 31 01-10-2011 09:58 AM
GTM TWIN TURBO kit: 2009 370Z 539WHP/490RWTQ-WATER INJECTED TORQUE MONSTER SAM@GTM Forced Induction 14 09-01-2010 04:21 PM
my 370z vs. 350z Supercharger S3 Snakes709 Track / Autocross / Drifting / Dragstrip 16 09-20-2009 04:53 AM
Jon Sibal masterpiece for 370ZTune 370Ztune 370Ztune 0 02-09-2009 03:47 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2