built motor?
 

Hey guys lately I have been debating to start building my motor to make it more FI friendly. Not wanting to start this tomorrow but maybe next winter is when I am going to want to do it. Well I find myself in unfamiliar water and was wondering what I would need to do. I would like a motor that could handle about 700hp to the wheels just in case I ever want to go up a little more from where i am at now in power. I understand that I would need pistons, rods and a crank to lower the compression, but what about the heads? Would I need to get head work done, new valves, and would a VVEL controller be necessary? Never really did anything like this so any help would be appreciated.
Frank

We have done countless motor builds primarily for FI, on a variety of VQ based engines. With that said, you or your motor builder will need a host of parts, including but not limited to new forged rods, lower compression forged pistons, bearings, gaskets, seals, bolts, studs, etc. A crank would not be necessary unless you intend on changing your displacement (which I would advise against), the VQ family of cranks are very hearty and have shown to be capable of withstanding upwards to 800-1000 HP and over 12,000 rpm without a problem.

Best thing to do is contact a reputable shop. Most have package deals that support this amount of power. Pretty straight forward. Except for the cost,lol. Head work with that much HP would have to be done. You really don't need that much HP IMHO. 500 to 550 is more than enough. Saving you more dough. Or to help add with more supporting mods.

There's a 12,000 rpm VQ motor? How do they make it rev that high when the engine can barely make 8k rpm?

That is high. I've seen with stroker kits going alot higher revs, like in the 9's and above. But I wouldn't doubt it can't happen or has.

Now I have the walboro 255 fuel pump and 600cc injectors. Would they be able to handle up to the power I asked or would a new system be required. Also would a piggy back system be required? I know I have a lot of questions, would hate to get involved and then get shut down because i was over my head.
Frank

I understand what your saying and thats where I am at now. I would just like to make the motor more FI friendly where I never have to worry about the boost I am putting in it will one day cause damage. I also look at it if I am going to do it i should give a little more room for growth and just spend the money once because if i ever want to get more it is going to be like paying double.
Frank

Fuel pump will work along with a return fuel system. I would defiantly have bigger injectors (1000). I also would get a stand alone engine management. Which is costly. A rough estimate for a built motor and FI will be 15k plus with supporting mods. Look at GTM website to get a idea of what's needed. Plus nothing is guaranteed with a build and boost.

For 700 Whp you would need a twin pump set up ang bigger 800CC should do it and return fuel system.

I did that already and found it not to be so helpful lol. I know they offer complete engine builds and I only seen one that was a stage 1 VHR the rest were 35HR. Also it didn't tell you what else you would need to make it happen. I don't know what other supporting mods that you mentioned I would need other then fuel return and the piggy back.
Frank

You could need a bigger radiator with fans with those power levels. But maybe not. But it does help to have. Better clutch, oil cooler, LSD (IMO), and some others. Not sure of what you have as of now such as exhaust and such. There's alot to it. Start looking up other people's duild and see what they have. There's such that can be said.

I have everything you mentioned already from when I added the turbo kit.
Frank

I know this may seem like a stupid thread but something never really discussed on the forum and one day I am really going to want to do this and it would be nice to have a idea of how it works so some shop doesn't take me for a ride.

Yes, the fuel system would have to be addressed as well as the injectors would have to be upgraded significantly again for this sort of power you are talking about. Not to mention a list of other stuff.

Like what was stated previously, 700whp is a LOT of power and overkill for any street car. The amount of money involved in this project as well as the maintenance and upkeep involved on a daily or even a weekend driven 700whp VQ car is painstaking. Might want to re-consider your goals a little. 500-600whp is MORE than enough for a street car and is a more realistic goal as far as maintenance and reliability. I'm sure you are wanting to enjoy your car more, not maintain and worry about it more.... LOL

Ok I didnt think there was that much more of a head ach if you built the car to take that power level. So if i stayed in the 600 area my injectures and fuel system would be fine except for possibly having to purchase a fuel pressure regualtor or something. Like i said I am not trying to be speed racer and i definatly need no more then 600 to the wheel just figured if I was going to build something for that to maybe spend a little more and give me some wiggle room
Frank

Ok I see what boat your in. Yea defiantly a fuel system(injectors, return system)and engine management for starters. The motor is straight forward for your going to have a certain type of setup for those levels. I agree with Scott also. Plus at the time you get involved you will need to see if the turbo's might need to be rebuilt also while there off the car.

Even at 600whp you would want to upgrade your injectors over the 600cc's you have now, at the very least, and maybe do a stand alone engine management system along with a few other things and combinations of things.

With that much power, the butt end of your car will definitely be wiggling like a super excited dog who hasn't seen its owner in ages. ;)

Are you keeping the displacement? I also wonder about the VVEL system as well.

It may be in your best interest to first find a shop you really trust--to build your motor. Once you have that covered, you should sit with your builder and discuss what he thinks would be best for your goals.
*At least that's what I would do...*

Best of luck!:tup:

Ok glade you see what i mean, but to clear all the confusion lets talk about making a 600 rwhp engine lol I hope the turbos wont need to be rebuilt lol there brand new still lol. No the only things i was wondering about the motor was with the vvel. I noticed sam sells engine and only one was VHR and i know are lower end casing wise is the same as the DE and HR but if i was to buy one of those engines would the VVEL work. Like his stage 1 is capable of 600 rwhp or up to it say, I am fine with that, get a comresion ratio of 8:5 don't have to worry if the engine can take it now and you are done. add now from what you all are telling me, the fuel return and engine management and you have a bad *** ride. I would imagine OEM ignition would be fine, not sure though.
Thanks guys really do appreciate the help
Frank

There is really no one around here that gets into these cars here. Mostly around me is all vette shops. Got any recomandations I may consider?
Frank

You can leave it with the same compression as stock. I know a highly respected tuner that recommends it. I think I might lower it just a tad though, thats just me.

You need to call Sam and talk compression. I think this is much to low, ask Sam, he can explain. Oh and I told you Toner you would want more power soon ; )

The build is looking great by the way :tup:

Edit: @ 600whp stage 2 turbos are pretty much maxed out, so is the fuel system. The rods on the VQ37 is a weak point Sam says. You can build the bottom end for a cheap price and upgrade everything else as you go. The bottom end is really what you need built to hit 600whp all day long. Sam has a stage 1 short block for 3666.00 that includes all labor. Thats all you need as far as building the block for 600whp. You will need new turbos to go over 600whp.

I think he was more along the lines saying that because I said i wanted to lower the compresion and was telling me what i would need to do that. I am not to savy with rebuilding a motor.
Frank

Just noticed you are in VA.. You should definitely consider speaking with Hal@Dynosty (Hal@Injected) They have a great/solid reputation..
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LOL ITS CRACK. **** should be illegal lol. I sent sam a email about this a while ago maybe a month or so he never got back to me. I have the money right now to do it if I really wanted to, but not really needed. Something I want done when the winter hits and my car is just chillin in the garage. Don't want to risk spring and summer again like I did last year. Ohh also can you explain why that would be a little to low? I thought from reading google lol 8:5 was a very good compression ratio for FI cars.
Frank

I most def will. Never heard of them but i will browse that thread and give them a call tomorrow to introduce my self. Thank you reality
Frank

No worries :)
Oh this is hal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=c0izKpQsk90

I will have to watch it when i get home goverment computers don't allow us to get on youtube anymore =(
Frank

^ah yes.. Internet security ftw!:tup:
I am trying to embed..but I fial.. lol

Ah well.. his 6speed record is 9.34@145mph... Full street car! It's ridiculous..:icon17:

Yo, JB! where did you see that pricing at?

nevermind! i found it!

LOL i just realized something you said JB. Why would I need new turbos isnt the stage 2 capable of 700?
Frank

Someone please point the way to where the VQ motor redlines at 12,000. Was it an N/A build or with boost? I think the jury is still out on how much the stock block can take, we haven't seen one go boom yet. With that said, if I went with a built motor it would be more for piece of mind and longevity with boost rather than more power.

Besides the supporting mods. I think you would be more than happy with a short block build and see where it lands you. You would get more than great power, plus the better reliability of being boosted that you wanted.

On a side note have you ever rode in a car with a stand alone system? It amazes me to this day how smooth it is. Better than stock.

yea maybe a short block is the way to go. mainly I want the reliability and that will give me the power I want also. I will look around to see who has a nice fuel system at a good price and a stand alone system. This is really not going to that expensive as i orignally thought.
Frank

FI is like crack. Once you're hooked you'll want more.

The simpler the better, First thing you need to do is to define your power goal and how are you going to use car. Meaning track or no track use and if you are tracking what type of tracking, there is a huge difference between drag racing and road racing setups.

Few thoughts on the matter .

-Bottom end piston and rods.

-Stock heads flow over 300 CFM so there will be no need to do any head work, just some valve spring will do.

-You don't really need a standalone, stock ecu can do job

-Your fuel system will have to be adjusted according to your power hunger, your current set up can support 550 WHP safely without any problem. We have made 611 RWHP on you exact fuel set up.

The main factor here that we are starting with good advanced efficient engine out of the box . So it does not take much to make descent power, we just need to work on making it more suited for FI .

Hope this helps

Sam

well I am more leaning towards making the engine safer for FI I know there is no failure reports yet but something that will give piece of mind. Also 600-650 to the wheels is fine for me. Not really doing this for the more power because my car is fast as hell now but if i was to do engine work i think it is just more beneficial to give your self some room to grow down the line. I am not a big racer. i like the occasinal 1/4 mile but really can't see me ever autocrossing. Any recomandations sam?

I will shoot you some packages to look at, also you still have the option of not building yet, What is the rush. We have customer with almost 20 k FI miles on a stock engine without any issue.

I'm a believer if its not broken don't fix it especially on the VHR37

Sam

yea if i do it, it would be in the winter and allow me to build the piggy bank. Not rushing but it would make me feel better. If i save the extra cash why not making something better?

What are roughly the maintenance differences between running a 550rwhp car and a 700rwhp car? More common check for leaks? Things like axles and trans braking? Going through clutches?
p.s. driving it on the street, frequently beating on it.