To FI or not to FI

Israeli_Z · 11-24-2010, 07:44 AM

Hello everyone, I've been doing some research on FI and picking up things here and there and had a few questions and wanted some feedback from people with real life experiences. Just a little about myself, I use to have a 96 Maxima (totaled), 06 350Z (trade in), 08 G35 Sedan and less then a week ago purchased a 10 370Z. To be honest the Z was a last minute choice because I've been wanting an STI since 05 but I just think that the Subaru strayed away from their rally roots that I fell in love with. I was comfortable with the Z since I had one before and it really started to grow on me so I took another leap of faith with another VQ power plant.
By all means, I'm not trying to have the most bad a** Z or car out there (because there will always be something bigger and badder) but I have numbers in my head and that's where help is needed. I've read "supercharger vs turbo" and "400 to 500 hp without FI" and after I weighed the pro's and con's and it seems like S/C would fit me best. I personally would be happy with 350RWHP to 400RWHP. I plan to buy get the basics first intakes, exhaust, HFC, tune, etc. My question is(which is where I get all the mixed reviews) can I slap on a Stillen supercharger kit with stock internals SAFELY? My EVO friend tells me "it's unrealistic and I shouldn't waste my time with FI and my car will never have FI" then I ask him if he should be picking up his brother and his friends from soccer practice.
I also would like to know if since this is a new engine, will there be "less powerful" S/C's that might come out and in turn safer for the internals? Yes, I will admit that I do want to be able to keep up with my friends. One has an Evo 9 with 330 to the wheels with 23psi and another with a 300ZX TT (being worked on so no numbers available). So now I want to know what you guys think and if you have any advice or constructive criticism. Is it worth going FI? should I just stay N/A and wait to see in any power mods come out later next year or so? things like that. But sometimes I look at the price of S/C and turbo's and think I should have just got an STI that already comes with a turbo

. Hope you guys can put me in a happier mood cause I feel like buyer's remorse is setting in and I'm trying to get out of it.

m4a1mustang · 11-24-2010, 07:59 AM

First of all, is your car a MT or AT? This is important because the automatic transmission is only rated to 298 lb-ft from the factory and we've seen a couple blow up with FI.

The MT is rated to 332 lb-ft and with a careful driver can handle most basic FI applications.

With regards to safety, in general the safety of the kit is only as good as the safety of the tune. With a safe tune the engine should be fine in that 350-400 whp range, just keep in mind you are taking on additional risk.

If you do plan to supercharge, skip intakes and the tune. They will just be a waste of money as any s/c kit is going to replace the intakes and obviously you will have to be re-tuned.

FWIW, we've seen some 330-340 whp dynos with the usual bolt-ons + tune, so you might find that bolt-ons might be enough for you.

theDreamer · 11-24-2010, 10:40 AM

Well your friend knows nothing about the VQ3.7L engine.
There are already plenty of guys with TT or SC in teh 400-500whp range on stock internals. Known upgrades are clutch, exhaust, HFC (downpipes), and very good tunes.

The hit list of things to look at before going FI I would suggest:
-Exhaust
-HFC (if you plan to SC, if turbo skip this step)
-Good quality oil cooler
-Clutch upgrade

Good local shop & tuner

Jamaica · 11-24-2010, 12:39 PM

And about 8 to 13k depending on the application for install tuning and extra parts.

theDreamer · 11-24-2010, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamaica951

And about 8 to 13k depending on the application for install tuning and extra parts.

Way to be a buzz kill.

toner123 · 11-24-2010, 01:58 PM

go buy the GTM S/c and you will have more hp to the wheels then the EVO your buddy has. Or go buy a GTM TT and you will just laugh at him. As for buyers remorse I don't know what to tell you about that. If I had to pick between the two cars all over again I would go buy the 370z in a heart beat. My Buddy has a STI and he was telling me after i spanked the balls off him, that to upgrade the car it would cost to much since he would have to go get engine work done since they went cheap with it.
As for our cars they handle FI pretty damn well. There is no known history with a 370's engine blowing up due to FI and i think alot on this board will agree with me that up to 500rwhp your car will be fine(except if you have the 7 at you want to stay at 400 or below IMHO). I hope this helps, but I fell if you add the kit to the car you will have a way better deal and looking car then if you bought the STI or EVO
Frank

Jamaica · 11-24-2010, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theDreamer

Way to be a buzz kill.

Lol my bad just trying to realistic. Can't just buy the car without the tires ya know?

toner123 · 11-24-2010, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamaica951

Lol my bad just trying to realistic. Can't just buy the car without the tires ya know?

true story
Frank

Israeli_Z · 11-24-2010, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

First of all, is your car a MT or AT? This is important because the automatic transmission is only rated to 298 lb-ft from the factory and we've seen a couple blow up with FI.

The MT is rated to 332 lb-ft and with a careful driver can handle most basic FI applications.

With regards to safety, in general the safety of the kit is only as good as the safety of the tune. With a safe tune the engine should be fine in that 350-400 whp range, just keep in mind you are taking on additional risk.

If you do plan to supercharge, skip intakes and the tune. They will just be a waste of money as any s/c kit is going to replace the intakes and obviously you will have to be re-tuned.

FWIW, we've seen some 330-340 whp dynos with the usual bolt-ons + tune, so you might find that bolt-ons might be enough for you.

I have a M/T and 330-340 w/ bolt ons sounds pretty good. I've been looking for tune shops in the Nor Cal area but they seem to be hard to find (have only found one). Besides the things I mentioned are there any other bolt ons I should look at getting? Because if I can get in that HP range I will probably just start doing lightweight mods.

Jeffblue · 11-24-2010, 05:30 PM

I was talking to Alex at Performance motorsport about this the other day.you just have to figure hp/$

approximately 3k worht of bolt ons and a tune gets you about 20-25whp tops
$120 to $150/hp
12k gets you 150 whp
80/hp

but it really depends on what your goals are.

2fast4thelaw · 11-24-2010, 07:12 PM

You should look into the STI rear mount turbo option. It will give you near twin turbo performance at the price of a supercharger, plus they sound sick as hell! EVos and STis are great cars but the Z beats them hands down in the looks and quality department. Plus the Z has enormous performance potential that the other 2 mentioned cars could only dream of. They may make some big hp numbers but will lack the torque that the VQ engine will deliver. Big Hp sells cars but Torque wins races!

Israeli_Z · 11-24-2010, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffblue

I was talking to Alex at Performance motorsport about this the other day.you just have to figure hp/$

approximately 3k worht of bolt ons and a tune gets you about 20-25whp tops
$120 to $150/hp
12k gets you 150 whp
80/hp

but it really depends on what your goals are.

This car will be my DD and I live in San Francisco, land of hills and stop signs. But the only real time I drive in the city is when I'm going to work downtown but otherwise I steer clear of it. I want to track the car here and there and maybe drag it a little but mostly track days. But I'm really looking for a car for the twisties and I'm not sure if FI is really good for that?

Jamaica · 11-24-2010, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2fast4thelaw

You should look into the STS rear mount turbo option. It will give you near twin turbo performance at the price of a supercharger, plus they sound sick as hell! EVos and STis are great cars but the Z beats them hands down in the looks and quality department. Plus the Z has enormous performance potential that the other 2 mentioned cars could only dream of. They may make some big hp numbers but will lack the torque that the VQ engine will deliver. Big Hp sells cars but Torque wins races!

.

Israeli_Z · 11-24-2010, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toner123

go buy the GTM S/c and you will have more hp to the wheels then the EVO your buddy has. Or go buy a GTM TT and you will just laugh at him. As for buyers remorse I don't know what to tell you about that. If I had to pick between the two cars all over again I would go buy the 370z in a heart beat. My Buddy has a STI and he was telling me after i spanked the balls off him, that to upgrade the car it would cost to much since he would have to go get engine work done since they went cheap with it.
As for our cars they handle FI pretty damn well. There is no known history with a 370's engine blowing up due to FI and i think alot on this board will agree with me that up to 500rwhp your car will be fine(except if you have the 7 at you want to stay at 400 or below IMHO). I hope this helps, but I fell if you add the kit to the car you will have a way better deal and looking car then if you bought the STI or EVO
Frank

For the GTM supercharger, do you have to pull the motor to install it?

Jamaica · 11-24-2010, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Israeli_Z

For the GTM supercharger, do you have to pull the motor to install it?

No! Sure dont. One of the advantages.

11-24-2010, 07:44 AM	#1 (permalink)
Israeli_Z Base Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: San Francisco Posts: 125 Drives: 10 370Z Rep Power: 15	To FI or not to FI Hello everyone, I've been doing some research on FI and picking up things here and there and had a few questions and wanted some feedback from people with real life experiences. Just a little about myself, I use to have a 96 Maxima (totaled), 06 350Z (trade in), 08 G35 Sedan and less then a week ago purchased a 10 370Z. To be honest the Z was a last minute choice because I've been wanting an STI since 05 but I just think that the Subaru strayed away from their rally roots that I fell in love with. I was comfortable with the Z since I had one before and it really started to grow on me so I took another leap of faith with another VQ power plant. By all means, I'm not trying to have the most bad a** Z or car out there (because there will always be something bigger and badder) but I have numbers in my head and that's where help is needed. I've read "supercharger vs turbo" and "400 to 500 hp without FI" and after I weighed the pro's and con's and it seems like S/C would fit me best. I personally would be happy with 350RWHP to 400RWHP. I plan to buy get the basics first intakes, exhaust, HFC, tune, etc. My question is(which is where I get all the mixed reviews) can I slap on a Stillen supercharger kit with stock internals SAFELY? My EVO friend tells me "it's unrealistic and I shouldn't waste my time with FI and my car will never have FI" then I ask him if he should be picking up his brother and his friends from soccer practice. I also would like to know if since this is a new engine, will there be "less powerful" S/C's that might come out and in turn safer for the internals? Yes, I will admit that I do want to be able to keep up with my friends. One has an Evo 9 with 330 to the wheels with 23psi and another with a 300ZX TT (being worked on so no numbers available). So now I want to know what you guys think and if you have any advice or constructive criticism. Is it worth going FI? should I just stay N/A and wait to see in any power mods come out later next year or so? things like that. But sometimes I look at the price of S/C and turbo's and think I should have just got an STI that already comes with a turbo . Hope you guys can put me in a happier mood cause I feel like buyer's remorse is setting in and I'm trying to get out of it.

11-24-2010, 07:59 AM	#2 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6962	First of all, is your car a MT or AT? This is important because the automatic transmission is only rated to 298 lb-ft from the factory and we've seen a couple blow up with FI. The MT is rated to 332 lb-ft and with a careful driver can handle most basic FI applications. With regards to safety, in general the safety of the kit is only as good as the safety of the tune. With a safe tune the engine should be fine in that 350-400 whp range, just keep in mind you are taking on additional risk. If you do plan to supercharge, skip intakes and the tune. They will just be a waste of money as any s/c kit is going to replace the intakes and obviously you will have to be re-tuned. FWIW, we've seen some 330-340 whp dynos with the usual bolt-ons + tune, so you might find that bolt-ons might be enough for you. __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

11-24-2010, 10:40 AM	#3 (permalink)
theDreamer A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 30,879 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 4210	Well your friend knows nothing about the VQ3.7L engine. There are already plenty of guys with TT or SC in teh 400-500whp range on stock internals. Known upgrades are clutch, exhaust, HFC (downpipes), and very good tunes. The hit list of things to look at before going FI I would suggest: -Exhaust -HFC (if you plan to SC, if turbo skip this step) -Good quality oil cooler -Clutch upgrade Good local shop & tuner __________________ theDreamer's Z // Fast Intentions // Uprev // GTM // HKS // TEIN theDreamer's Silvia // URAS // GREDDY Houston Zs // Facebook // Twitter // Instagram

11-24-2010, 07:12 PM	#11 (permalink)
2fast4thelaw Enthusiast Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Denver Co Age: 50 Posts: 403 Drives: 09 370Z Sport/MT6 Rep Power: 16	You should look into the STI rear mount turbo option. It will give you near twin turbo performance at the price of a supercharger, plus they sound sick as hell! EVos and STis are great cars but the Z beats them hands down in the looks and quality department. Plus the Z has enormous performance potential that the other 2 mentioned cars could only dream of. They may make some big hp numbers but will lack the torque that the VQ engine will deliver. Big Hp sells cars but Torque wins races! __________________ To the optimist, the glass is half full. To the pessimist, the glass is half empty. To the engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

11-24-2010, 12:39 PM	#4 (permalink)
Jamaica A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: SoCal Posts: 15,362 Drives: Under boost Rep Power: 73	And about 8 to 13k depending on the application for install tuning and extra parts.

11-24-2010, 01:58 PM	#6 (permalink)
toner123 Track Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: chesapeake va Age: 39 Posts: 823 Drives: TT 370z Touring/SP Rep Power: 16	go buy the GTM S/c and you will have more hp to the wheels then the EVO your buddy has. Or go buy a GTM TT and you will just laugh at him. As for buyers remorse I don't know what to tell you about that. If I had to pick between the two cars all over again I would go buy the 370z in a heart beat. My Buddy has a STI and he was telling me after i spanked the balls off him, that to upgrade the car it would cost to much since he would have to go get engine work done since they went cheap with it. As for our cars they handle FI pretty damn well. There is no known history with a 370's engine blowing up due to FI and i think alot on this board will agree with me that up to 500rwhp your car will be fine(except if you have the 7 at you want to stay at 400 or below IMHO). I hope this helps, but I fell if you add the kit to the car you will have a way better deal and looking car then if you bought the STI or EVO Frank

11-24-2010, 05:30 PM	#10 (permalink)
Jeffblue A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: NY Age: 36 Posts: 9,192 Drives: Z32TT & 335xi Coupe Rep Power: 38	I was talking to Alex at Performance motorsport about this the other day.you just have to figure hp/$ approximately 3k worht of bolt ons and a tune gets you about 20-25whp tops $120 to $150/hp 12k gets you 150 whp 80/hp but it really depends on what your goals are.