Successfull Tracking with Forced Induction??

Push370zzz · 10-27-2010, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike

The GTR was designed from the beginning for FI. Compression ratios, internal parts, cooling system, everything is designed from the get go to work together. Its definitely not the same as adding it to a non FI car.

I had to de-supercharge my C6 for the exact same reasons once I tried tracking it, it just couldn't keep the oil cool enough.

If you really want FI for the track and are going to get another car, that white one in modified magazine is for sale, and for a lot less than a used GT3 or GTR, and its a fully sorted track car.

Well wow then, I guess I don't understand why so many people boost their cars if they aren't tracking them...haha. Had no idea that you guys were all just doing this for street fun.

Mike · 10-27-2010, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smashwebs

Well wow then, I guess I don't understand why so many people boost their cars if they aren't tracking them...haha. Had no idea that you guys were all just doing this for street fun.

I boosted my 350z and my corvette. The 350 had the stillen eaton supercharger, and it behaved perfectly on the track, and was a very worthwhile upgrade, even if it didn't have the power of the vortech or procharger. The corvette however, just couldn't deal with the track and truthfully, at 550 rwhp, it wasn't that fun on the street either, as I could never really use the power.

Q8y_drifter · 10-28-2010, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smashwebs

I understand how a TT or SC is going to cause a ton more heat, but how does the GT-R, for example, pull it off?

Lack of VVEL for starters.

The VHR has high oil temp issues and the HR doesn't. That alone just shows how much VVEL has an effect on oil temps.

KillBill · 10-28-2010, 06:31 AM

Anybody with FI chime in....have you done any track days.....whats up FI peepz...Sounds like if you want to track...Do Not go FI !!

Sharif@Forged · 10-28-2010, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike

The GTR was designed from the beginning for FI. Compression ratios, internal parts, cooling system, everything is designed from the get go to work together. Its definitely not the same as adding it to a non FI car.

I had to de-supercharge my C6 for the exact same reasons once I tried tracking it, it just couldn't keep the oil cool enough.

If you really want FI for the track and are going to get another car, that white one in modified magazine is for sale, and for a lot less than a used GT3 or GTR, and its a fully sorted track car.

Mike, you hit it on the head. And even with the GT-R we still have to make upgrades the cooling system due to the tremendous heat generated during extended lapping sessions.

And great reminder...its' for sale, and a total bargain!

KillBill · 12-11-2011, 03:18 AM

Anybody having good experiences tracking with FI yet?

axio · 12-11-2011, 04:54 PM

I'll let you know next week... Going to hit Laguna Seca on the 17th. I'm not sure it's a fair comparison for the rest of the country though but I don't expect the weather to be hot at all. I'll be running at GTM Stage II S/C with their oil cooler, no other cooling mods otherwise.

modme · 12-11-2011, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Push370zzz

Well wow then, I guess I don't understand why so many people boost their cars if they aren't tracking them...haha. Had no idea that you guys were all just doing this for street fun.

Obviously you have not experienced shifting through the gears on a freeway on ramp with 450whp. Makes you giggly inside every time. Besides, I think its more useful to FI on a daily car than a track car. How often can you track? Once a month? Once every 2 months? I enjoy my TT everyday.

Brazilbro · 12-12-2011, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Push370zzz

If I go FI it's going to be for the track, and if I have to mod the pants off of my car to do it I'm getting rid of it and getting a used GT3 or GT-R....

Now you see why I sold my TT Z

CSF Inc. · 12-13-2011, 02:07 PM

Just wanted to chime in with our experience in building the only aftermarket cooling system module for the 370Z/G37.. Also some of the feedback of our customers who have installed the unit.

Our goal when developing our upgraded cooling system module (radiator + condenser) were the following:
- Drop-in fit, requiring no modifications to install.
- Increase the cooling system capacity by at least 100%
- Able to remove the condenser for race application.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged

Forced inductoin on the 350Z/370Z for track use is extremely challenging and expensive to pull off. The cooling capacity of the oil and coolant heat exchangers needs to increase by 4-5 times over factor levels in order to reach a steady state temp equilibrium at a safe level. It's a simple heat in/heat out equation, but adding that level of cooling capacity would be challenging on a street car. This isn't something that would fit neatly into a street car without significant fabrication, and removal of many front end components such as your AC.

On my 370Z Nismo which is still NA, I hit 270F oil temps even with an oil cooler, in just 5-6 laps at Road Atlanta on a hot day. With FI I wouldn't make it around 1 lap. The rate and level at which you overheat is directly related to lap times and how aggressive you are behind the wheel, YMMV.

Performance Motorsport (NY) tracked their 370Z Nismo (NA) at a time attack event in New Jersey in August (humid/hot ~90 ambient temp) with our radiator installed, and went over 12 laps without the water temp getting over 228 degrees and the oil around 250.
Performance Race Solutions (FL) had very similar results when tracking their car during the summer in Florida.

The biggest issue we see with this vehicle set-up is the lack of direct and cold airflow that the cooling system receives, especially in FI set-ups. The front grill is not very large and airflow is poor, combined with the lack of space/venting for the air to escape once it's passed through the radiator.
- FOR NA builds the airflow is more direct, but intake systems that sit in front of the radiator compete for cold air with some of them blocking the radiator and sucking in cold air before it can travel through the cooling system.
- For FI builds, the air has to go through a massive intercooler first. Also, sometimes additional coolers are placed before the cooling system as well.
- Even worse, when tracking/racing, if you are drafting behind someone, you will be getting very little airflow.

Our unit has about 130% more cooling capacity/efficiency than the stock unit when accounting for our thicker core and B-tube technology that is about 15% more efficient than the tubes Nissan uses for this vehicle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by christian370z

There are no issues with water/coolant temperature even while tracking the 370z. The oil is the only real core issue regarding fluid temperatures and a larger radiator won't make an appreciable difference to the oil temps.

I'm going to have to disagree with this statement. I've heard many 370Z owners say this, and I don't know why.
If the radiator is cooling the water that is circulating around the engine block, and the oil is circulating within the engine, then bringing down the water temps will also directly bring down the oil temps. Because no person (that we know of) has installed our unit without any additional oil coolers, we don't know what the significance of our unit solely on the oil temps are. However, for the guys who have seriously tracked their cars, it has made a huge difference in bringing down their oil temps, but more importantly stabilizing them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KillBill

The article is in October Modified called "Chasing Godzilla". It explains what was needed to track the twin turbo Z. They had to build a "Nascar style" cooling sytem. Seems if you want to track with the VQ engine, stick to bolt ons and weight reduction. Damn

A "Nascar style" cooling system is typically 3-4 inches thicks and at least 3 rows of tubing. Making a unit this size was not possible because of the condenser portion that needed to be included and the support beam that runs vertically in front of the condenser. For guys who want to track their car, the ability to remove the condenser will increase the cooling efficiency of their vehicle, something we took into account when developing out unit.

If there is sufficient demand from the 370Z/G37 community, we could build a unit without a condenser that would be ~3-3.5 times more cooling capacity compared to the original while still installing without any modifications. If we could get at least 5 units pre-ordered, I could discuss a group-buy with one of the supporting vendors who distribute our product. Any interest?
- We also had the idea of putting additional plate-type oil coolers in both end tanks, but the market for this was undetermined.

Our advice, is that if you are planning on tracking your car or stepping up to an FI build, you definitely need some type of extra cooling capacity. Nissan really botched this design up with their single unit radiator/condenser. The thickness of the radiator core is a mere 15mm and it has no front surface area. For a high performance sports car, i wonder what they were thinking

Nixlimited · 12-13-2011, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSF Inc.

For a high performance sports car, i wonder what they were thinking

They were thinking 98% of the purchasers wouldn't ever push the car that hard, and cars are a small margin business. The good news is that manufacturers' shortcuts make for a booming aftermarket!

BTW, it's a shame that if you are making such an awesome product for our cars that it is so hard to find info about on your website. I believe I found it, but there are no pictures, no cost, no ordering info, etc.

bullitt5897 · 12-13-2011, 08:40 PM

CSF does not sell to the end user... I run their products and they are GREAT! we even put them in customer cars. If you want pics many of the vendors including UAM have pictures and pricing of the product.

Mike

Nixlimited · 12-13-2011, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullitt@UAMotorsports

CSF does not sell to the end user... I run their products and they are GREAT! we even put them in customer cars. If you want pics many of the vendors including UAM have pictures and pricing of the product.

Mike

What does a guy have to do around here to get a frack'n link?

Ron · 12-14-2011, 09:23 AM

How about running inline oil coolers? 2x25R or 34Rs plus a better radiator (CSF or GTM) and low boost? Would the extra amount of oil require a better pump?

theDreamer · 12-14-2011, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nixlimited

They were thinking 98% of the purchasers wouldn't ever push the car that hard, and cars are a small margin business. The good news is that manufacturers' shortcuts make for a booming aftermarket!

BTW, it's a shame that if you are making such an awesome product for our cars that it is so hard to find info about on your website. I believe I found it, but there are no pictures, no cost, no ordering info, etc.

CSF Radiator: Reviews

12-11-2011, 04:54 PM	#22 (permalink)
axio Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Posts: 271 Drives: '09 370Z Rep Power: 17	I'll let you know next week... Going to hit Laguna Seca on the 17th. I'm not sure it's a fair comparison for the rest of the country though but I don't expect the weather to be hot at all. I'll be running at GTM Stage II S/C with their oil cooler, no other cooling mods otherwise. __________________ GTM Stg II SC w/ Aquamist methanol injection, GTM oil cooler, Berk HFC, Stillen CBE, BC ER coilovers, Hotchkis sways, TWM short shifter, Clutch spring mod, CarboTech XP8s

12-13-2011, 08:40 PM	#27 (permalink)
bullitt5897 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: North GA Posts: 6,831 Drives: Twin Turbo Z34 Rep Power: 3682	CSF does not sell to the end user... I run their products and they are GREAT! we even put them in customer cars. If you want pics many of the vendors including UAM have pictures and pricing of the product. Mike __________________ *Shop Cars: 2013 318whp Nismo VspecII 370z SOLD, 2009 1000hp+ 93oct 4.0L TT 370z Fast Intentions STAGE 4 #054*

12-14-2011, 09:23 AM	#29 (permalink)
Ron A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 3,009 Drives: TT '11 PW Nismo #113 Rep Power: 22	How about running inline oil coolers? 2x25R or 34Rs plus a better radiator (CSF or GTM) and low boost? Would the extra amount of oil require a better pump? __________________ 2011 Twin Turbo PW nismo #113 - My Journal - My TT Build Thread [ GTM GTX Stg2 TT \|\| HKS EVC6 \|\| Custom CarPC \|\| F.I 3'' TDX CBE \|\| SB 6puck clutch/ZSpeed CSC \|\| BC BR Coilovers \|\| SPC camber arms \|\| Work VSS-X \|\| Custom Headlights \|\| PW:JDM CF Covers \|\| Seibon CF Engine Cover ] Last edited by Ron; 12-14-2011 at 09:30 AM.

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10-28-2010, 06:31 AM	#19 (permalink)
KillBill Base Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: San Bernardino Posts: 86 Drives: 08-G37S Rep Power: 16	Anybody with FI chime in....have you done any track days.....whats up FI peepz...Sounds like if you want to track...Do Not go FI !!

12-11-2011, 03:18 AM	#21 (permalink)
KillBill Base Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: San Bernardino Posts: 86 Drives: 08-G37S Rep Power: 16	Anybody having good experiences tracking with FI yet?