GTM Performance Engineering VQ45VHR-Our Journey to The 1000 HP and Beyond

#452-LE · 09-14-2010, 06:36 PM

... Going to GA this weekend in the Jeep to unwind a bit. Leaving Thurs. lunchtime-ish. Perhaps we will be towing the bikes down for a few Blood Mountain passes, but we will most definitely hit up the Papadeaux in Alpharetta!!! I accept donations in the form of gift certificates left at the hostess counter. Not to mention, I have a few lady friends at that place called "Tilted Kilt"...

BTW on topic.... Not 1000HP, but I will be shooting for the 500 mark.....soon.

1slow370 · 09-15-2010, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullitt5897

let me know when you come into town and I will come pick you up haha!

Next time i come down I'll have to talk to you, I'm thinking there will be a major change in my car around next summer so we'll both have something to talk about at the bar. Maybe a trip to the track would be in order. Hopefully by next summer your car will have all the final touches done, the kinks worked out, every ounce of power it can make being put down to the wheels, and then finally get that stripper pole installed in the hatch.

bullitt5897 · 09-17-2010, 11:48 AM

Anytime Slow! The car will hopefully be at the WERA Grand National Finals in the 2nd weekend in October @ Road Atlanta.

Next Summer this car is going to be Insanely sick! haha if I ever sold it it would have to be in the dupont registry or to like r2b2 motors down the street. lol

Mike

spearfish25 · 09-18-2010, 12:16 PM

Hey bullitt,

How many actual miles have you driven in a 370Z? The sense I get is that your car gets worked on more than driven...you're an owner by proxy!

bullitt5897 · 09-18-2010, 11:51 PM

Haha dude I only have 15-16k on the odometer lmao and I had the 2nd fully loaded white z on the east coast!!! The first one got sold out from under me *it was a transfer from another out of state dealer*

neverenough · 09-19-2010, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB-370z

neverenough:

Do u have a problem with my post? I am only stating facts. As with any big build, bolting all the parts on is the easy part. Getting everything to work together and tuned is where the work comes in. I cant even count how many hours Sam has spent on the dyno with my car and its still not done. I wished the op the best of luck with his build and was merely pointing out that deadline or not there is a long way left to go. I find your post telling me to gtfo offensive and unnecessary .

1slow370 · 09-20-2010, 09:43 AM

Hey Mike any possibility while you are blowing barriers to the wayside and dropping untold amounts of cash that you could have GTM throwi in a motec M800 series ecu With the advanced functions for traction control and boost over run(wasted spark), Electronic throttle support with the multi throttle box, dual wideband support, an external knock box, Downshift blipping, variable cam timing, and the servo motor control?

Long story short hook up two servo brains to sensors on the back of the vvel sub-assemblies, and run their positive and negative motor wires to the standard DC motors on the sub assemblies. Then wire the motec servo out to the 2 servo brains and you have full vvel control as well as a standalone ecu that could easily handle all engine functions on your motor reliably.

After having talked to uprev i feel they don't ever really want to bring vvel out so the motec with a servo conversion on each head is going to be the way to go. You would need to have the throttles do all the air metering and then have the servo drive on the motec referenced to the rpm for the angle of the vvel system. I'm gonna go make a post in the tuning section this week to give a better explanation or just shoot me a pm but i figured out how to do it.

Edit: so long as you can control the throttle, cam timing, fuel and spark, you could use any kind of box that can create the reference signal for the servo boxes running the vvel motors, the motec just does all of it in one package.

rednek01 · 09-20-2010, 10:07 AM

Why wouldn't he just lock the VVEL out? You guys cant tune it, it adds more variables, and it isn't needed for high horsepower. I cant name a single mustang (yes we have variable valve timing too) with 600-800+ horsepower that doesn't have lockouts on the cams. Or at least limiters for that matter.

1slow370 · 09-20-2010, 10:13 AM

VVel is more than timing our cars can control valve lift and no, no mustang in history has ever had that. It is the sole reason our torque curve looks like a flat line, and why we can run a bigger "cam" than a 350z yet idle smooth as glass at 600 rpm. We don't have intake cams

Edit: while working on dreamers car you notice those 2 dc motors sticking out the back of the heads?

also as i just posted it can be tuned you just need the bank

rednek01 · 09-20-2010, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1slow370

VVel is more than timing our cars can control valve lift and no, no mustang in history has ever had that. It is the sole reason our torque curve looks like a flat line, and why we can run a bigger "cam" than a 350z yet idle smooth as glass at 600 rpm. We don't have intake cams

Edit: while working on dreamers car you notice those 2 dc motors sticking out the back of the heads?

also as i just posted it can be tuned you just need the bank

didnt realize it controlled valve lift as well! I stand corrected

1slow370 · 09-20-2010, 10:32 AM

It's okay I'm harsh to mustang owners by habit, I don't think most people realize it controls lift, it actually does the engine throttling not the throttlebodies which is why it's so hard to tune. when you think traction control, and everything is all wrapped up in that code. This is why a tunning solution that can throttle the engine is important and the motec is the only one i know of that can provide launch ad traction control, operate ETB's, and control a servo motor all in one box.

Variable
Valve
event and
lift

Q8y_drifter · 09-20-2010, 11:06 AM

VHR with HR head...

1slow370 · 09-20-2010, 11:51 AM

but the vhr head has bigger ports, better cooling, superior low end torque and idle, less hotspots and revised valve area's. Not to mention if you get rid of the vvel the engine can't be throttled without going standalone and/or cable throttles anyway

Q8y_drifter · 09-20-2010, 12:50 PM

If you're pushing for 1000whp then bigger ports, better torque curve, etc. don't matter IMO as that is really designed to push the limits of a factory stock N/A engine.

Better cooling? The HR has no oil overheating issues due to the lack of VVEL and in term of water cooling it's pretty much the same.

Is GTM going to use Osiris?

KaienZ34 · 09-20-2010, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1slow370

Hey Mike any possibility while you are blowing barriers to the wayside and dropping untold amounts of cash that you could have GTM throwi in a motec M800 series ecu With the advanced functions for traction control and boost over run(wasted spark), Electronic throttle support with the multi throttle box, dual wideband support, an external knock box, Downshift blipping, variable cam timing, and the servo motor control?

Long story short hook up two servo brains to sensors on the back of the vvel sub-assemblies, and run their positive and negative motor wires to the standard DC motors on the sub assemblies. Then wire the motec servo out to the 2 servo brains and you have full vvel control as well as a standalone ecu that could easily handle all engine functions on your motor reliably.

After having talked to uprev i feel they don't ever really want to bring vvel out so the motec with a servo conversion on each head is going to be the way to go. You would need to have the throttles do all the air metering and then have the servo drive on the motec referenced to the rpm for the angle of the vvel system. I'm gonna go make a post in the tuning section this week to give a better explanation or just shoot me a pm but i figured out how to do it.

Edit: so long as you can control the throttle, cam timing, fuel and spark, you could use any kind of box that can create the reference signal for the servo boxes running the vvel motors, the motec just does all of it in one package.

09-14-2010, 06:36 PM	#451 (permalink)
#452-LE Base Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Behind Dulles AP Posts: 117 Drives: '09 370Z 7AT-Stg2 TT Rep Power: 15	... Going to GA this weekend in the Jeep to unwind a bit. Leaving Thurs. lunchtime-ish. Perhaps we will be towing the bikes down for a few Blood Mountain passes, but we will most definitely hit up the Papadeaux in Alpharetta!!! I accept donations in the form of gift certificates left at the hostess counter. Not to mention, I have a few lady friends at that place called "Tilted Kilt"... BTW on topic.... Not 1000HP, but I will be shooting for the 500 mark.....soon. __________________ '06 R6 track,'06 R1-LE track,'09 848 street, '11Duc Multistrada 1200ST, '07 STi T-back '09 GTM stg2 TT-370Z-7AT (470whp/ 422wtq @10PSI) Last edited by #452-LE; 09-15-2010 at 09:00 AM.

09-17-2010, 11:48 AM	#453 (permalink)
bullitt5897 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: North GA Posts: 6,831 Drives: Twin Turbo Z34 Rep Power: 3682	Anytime Slow! The car will hopefully be at the WERA Grand National Finals in the 2nd weekend in October @ Road Atlanta. Next Summer this car is going to be Insanely sick! haha if I ever sold it it would have to be in the dupont registry or to like r2b2 motors down the street. lol Mike __________________ *Shop Cars: 2013 318whp Nismo VspecII 370z SOLD, 2009 1000hp+ 93oct 4.0L TT 370z Fast Intentions STAGE 4 #054* Last edited by bullitt5897; 09-17-2010 at 11:51 AM.

09-18-2010, 12:16 PM	#454 (permalink)
spearfish25 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Naples, FL Posts: 4,117 Drives: to work Rep Power: 1856	Hey bullitt, How many actual miles have you driven in a 370Z? The sense I get is that your car gets worked on more than driven...you're an owner by proxy! __________________ 2013 Cadillac V-Wagon, RIP Z

09-18-2010, 11:51 PM	#455 (permalink)
bullitt5897 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: North GA Posts: 6,831 Drives: Twin Turbo Z34 Rep Power: 3682	Haha dude I only have 15-16k on the odometer lmao and I had the 2nd fully loaded white z on the east coast!!! The first one got sold out from under me it was a transfer from another out of state dealer __________________ *Shop Cars: 2013 318whp Nismo VspecII 370z SOLD, 2009 1000hp+ 93oct 4.0L TT 370z Fast Intentions STAGE 4 #054*

09-20-2010, 09:43 AM	#457 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	Hey Mike any possibility while you are blowing barriers to the wayside and dropping untold amounts of cash that you could have GTM throwi in a motec M800 series ecu With the advanced functions for traction control and boost over run(wasted spark), Electronic throttle support with the multi throttle box, dual wideband support, an external knock box, Downshift blipping, variable cam timing, and the servo motor control? Long story short hook up two servo brains to sensors on the back of the vvel sub-assemblies, and run their positive and negative motor wires to the standard DC motors on the sub assemblies. Then wire the motec servo out to the 2 servo brains and you have full vvel control as well as a standalone ecu that could easily handle all engine functions on your motor reliably. After having talked to uprev i feel they don't ever really want to bring vvel out so the motec with a servo conversion on each head is going to be the way to go. You would need to have the throttles do all the air metering and then have the servo drive on the motec referenced to the rpm for the angle of the vvel system. I'm gonna go make a post in the tuning section this week to give a better explanation or just shoot me a pm but i figured out how to do it. Edit: so long as you can control the throttle, cam timing, fuel and spark, you could use any kind of box that can create the reference signal for the servo boxes running the vvel motors, the motec just does all of it in one package. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50 Last edited by 1slow370; 09-20-2010 at 10:26 AM.

09-20-2010, 10:07 AM	#458 (permalink)
rednek01 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Houston Posts: 352 Drives: Mustang GT Rep Power: 237	Why wouldn't he just lock the VVEL out? You guys cant tune it, it adds more variables, and it isn't needed for high horsepower. I cant name a single mustang (yes we have variable valve timing too) with 600-800+ horsepower that doesn't have lockouts on the cams. Or at least limiters for that matter. __________________ Project オレンジ 2009 (FUGLY) Grabber Orange Mustang GT // SLP loudmouth axle back // JLT intake // BamaChips Tunes // ... TheDreamer's personal mechanic

09-20-2010, 10:13 AM	#459 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	VVel is more than timing our cars can control valve lift and no, no mustang in history has ever had that. It is the sole reason our torque curve looks like a flat line, and why we can run a bigger "cam" than a 350z yet idle smooth as glass at 600 rpm. We don't have intake cams Edit: while working on dreamers car you notice those 2 dc motors sticking out the back of the heads? also as i just posted it can be tuned you just need the bank __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50 Last edited by 1slow370; 09-20-2010 at 10:18 AM.

09-20-2010, 10:32 AM	#461 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	It's okay I'm harsh to mustang owners by habit, I don't think most people realize it controls lift, it actually does the engine throttling not the throttlebodies which is why it's so hard to tune. when you think traction control, and everything is all wrapped up in that code. This is why a tunning solution that can throttle the engine is important and the motec is the only one i know of that can provide launch ad traction control, operate ETB's, and control a servo motor all in one box. Variable Valve event and lift __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

09-20-2010, 11:06 AM	#462 (permalink)
Q8y_drifter Enthusiast Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 306 Drives: 08 Infiniti G35 5AT Rep Power: 15	VHR with HR head... __________________ 08 G35 5AT Sedan \| Stillen CBE \| Invidia HFC \| Injen CAI \| Uprev Tune \| Akebono BBK \| Tanabe Coilovers \| Hotchkis Sway Bars \| GTSpec FSB \| Black Headlights & Grille \| Volk GT-F Wheels \| Hankook V12 Evo Tires

09-20-2010, 11:51 AM	#463 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	but the vhr head has bigger ports, better cooling, superior low end torque and idle, less hotspots and revised valve area's. Not to mention if you get rid of the vvel the engine can't be throttled without going standalone and/or cable throttles anyway __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

09-20-2010, 12:50 PM	#464 (permalink)
Q8y_drifter Enthusiast Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 306 Drives: 08 Infiniti G35 5AT Rep Power: 15	If you're pushing for 1000whp then bigger ports, better torque curve, etc. don't matter IMO as that is really designed to push the limits of a factory stock N/A engine. Better cooling? The HR has no oil overheating issues due to the lack of VVEL and in term of water cooling it's pretty much the same. Is GTM going to use Osiris? __________________ 08 G35 5AT Sedan \| Stillen CBE \| Invidia HFC \| Injen CAI \| Uprev Tune \| Akebono BBK \| Tanabe Coilovers \| Hotchkis Sway Bars \| GTSpec FSB \| Black Headlights & Grille \| Volk GT-F Wheels \| Hankook V12 Evo Tires

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