Z1 Motorsports: GTM TT kit on 7spd auto 456rwhp at 7psi

danielw · 06-15-2010, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phimosis

Let me rephrase my original post: I have an aftermarket tune from Technosquare. The graph is very smooth on my car and it's not because of the smoothing algorithm. The lumps you see in this engine's graph are over too wide of rpm range to be smoothed, so it's not that no one has figured out how to properly tune an engine with vvel.

New engine management systems progressively retard timing with very high sensitivity to knock - long before you can sense it. Progressive timing retard occurs without the driver sensing it because it's progressive... So the only way to know if it's pulling timing is if your obd is giving data to tell you. I plugged an uprev into mine and looked around. I didn't see it logging total ignition advance. Does it? If so, graph it trough the rev range and see if it's stable across those dips.

Thats not what a graph looks like when timing is being pulled. It's much more choppy. Those are big wide dips in the curve. Any reason for this?

theDreamer · 06-15-2010, 10:08 AM

Nice job on a TT with a 7AT.

danielw · 06-15-2010, 10:18 AM

This is what it looks like when timing is being pulled

Kastley85891 · 06-15-2010, 10:22 AM

How many hours all in done deal, PM please ? was it supply and install or only install

Jordo! · 06-15-2010, 02:10 PM

Probably less than ideal VVEL settings... be interesting to see boost and AFR curves overlayed with power and torque output.

BTW, what kind of knock sensor? Resonant or non-resonant? Anyone able to output that from the ECU?

Phimosis · 06-15-2010, 06:34 PM

In the original post, the dip from 6,000 to 6,250 rpm was around 25 lb/ft of torque. In the graph that Daniel just posted, the biggest dip is around 40 lb/ft or torque. I don't think that difference defines whether or not it is retarding the timing. That graph looks like a turbo'd vq35 with more boost... conventional camshaft sees torque fall off at high rpms where the vvel keeps pulling. If it is a high boost 3.5, it's retarding more degrees of timing to compensate for the high boost. If you run California's 91 octane vs the 93 octane the rest of the country gets, it will retard more. If your engine is heat soaked when you do the run it will retard the timing even though you've done 5 runs where it didn't retard the timing. Also, when you remap the ECU, if you advance timing aggressively, it's going to have to retard it based on the knock sensor and get choppy. If you map it conservitavely it won't need to retard and your graph will be smooth. Also, if you forget and leave traction control on during your dyno run, it would do the same thing. If you don't have enough weight on the rear end and it's spinning (a little), it would also make a wavy dyno curve. I still say, get the ODB output if it's available.

Seb@SZ · 06-15-2010, 08:14 PM

The waviness can be many things. Something as simple as the boost not holding steady be it the wastegate or boost controller settings (gain, limiter, auto learn logic, etc...) Knock as well. A good way to find out if its knock or engine noise is to log the ignition timing albeit it with Cipher or the dyno equipment if possible. The timing will always start to drop off at the top you just want to make sure it does it according to the IGN maps. Cam timing also plays a good amount (overlap, etc) so VVEL could be it. Although some forced induction VQ37s look smooth as a baby's butt. A good test for knock if logging is not possible is to throw in some 100 octane and see if it smooths out. Logging fuel pressure would also be handy if a pump is having trouble keeping up and also calculating injector duty cycle. AFR would be a good indicator of this.

Also like Phimosis mentioned the way the car is strapped down and the ability for the clutch to hold the power can have an effect. Typically when a clutch slips the graph will look much different.

ImportConvert · 06-24-2010, 09:24 PM

How does the MAF work on this setup? I have read that the MAF used on the G37/370Z needs to be placed before the FI instead of after. I am not that familiar with the platform, though, so correct me if I am wrong. How should a car with a tune/setup like this do long-term regarding engine durability?

ImportConvert · 06-24-2010, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John@Z1

Very sorry to make you guys hear crickets.
The tranny is holding up good. I got reports today of the car beating a Mustang GT500 up as well as a few new camaros. The car will be coming back for more tranny cooling goodies in the near future(due to long hauls heating the fluids up). The only vid that I have is on Youtube under Z1Jon and I will try to get the dyno vid up soon.

Also the install took a couple of weeks due to some changes on the vehicle. The install was smooth and GTM has been great when it comes to shop discussions.

The new Camaro's are no faster than the old (LS1 ) camaros. The GT500 is decently quick, but still way too slow for someone with 450whp in a 3350# car to be "gunning" for. Look for some Z06's.

jtown82 · 07-08-2010, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

The new Camaro's are no faster than the old (LS1 ) camaros. The GT500 is decently quick, but still way too slow for someone with 450whp in a 3350# car to be "gunning" for. Look for some Z06's.

2010 camaro 12.615@111.60... all stock. with a good driver there just as fast as the new mustang GT's..... there quite a bit quicker than the ls1 camaro. and trap considerably more.

and 450rwhp wont be enough to take down a properly driven z06.
they dyno 430-450rwhp and 420-440tq stock and weigh less. run low 11's. id say 450rwhp for the Z would maybe net it a high 11 maybe 11.8 11.9 range. but thats just a guess. noone seems to be posting drag times with there TT setups

Kastley85891 · 07-08-2010, 06:43 PM

New GT - nice, plenty of potential

#452-LE · 10-29-2010, 09:37 AM

Any updates on this 7-AT TT project?

How is it holding up? Mileage driven? Type of driving? Any tweaks necessary? Tranny slippage? Funky smells/sounds/sightings................

John@Z1 · 10-29-2010, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #452-LE

Any updates on this 7-AT TT project?

How is it holding up? Mileage driven? Type of driving? Any tweaks necessary? Tranny slippage? Funky smells/sounds/sightings................

Yes there is. The car was not pulling timing. It has clocked about 4k on the mileage. He drove it to PC last week and is loving it. The owner Kerry drives it 0-60 as much as possible. But his brother beats on it when he drives it. His brother has an SS camaro but uses the Z to beat up on people. After tuning the tranny with the Osiris there has not been anymore limp mod. We also added a vented hood to let engine heat escape.

daisuke149 · 10-29-2010, 12:10 PM

the pictures in the first page arent loading for me.. i assume this is that blue car??

If so that car really is sick.. and yeah its very tame until you 100% gun then oh man.

Ask Tony (2theextreme) he took a ride in it...
when he came back.. he was seriously chewing his finger nails!!!

efuseakay · 11-07-2010, 12:35 AM

I can't wait to win the Lotto.

06-15-2010, 10:08 AM	#62 (permalink)
theDreamer A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 30,879 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 4210	Nice job on a TT with a 7AT. __________________ theDreamer's Z // Fast Intentions // Uprev // GTM // HKS // TEIN theDreamer's Silvia // URAS // GREDDY Houston Zs // Facebook // Twitter // Instagram

06-15-2010, 10:22 AM	#64 (permalink)
Kastley85891 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: ATX 370 - Sold Posts: 1,149 Drives: 2003 Wagon Rep Power: 18	How many hours all in done deal, PM please ? was it supply and install or only install __________________ Boosted V8 hunter 2850 lbs and 375WHP

06-15-2010, 02:10 PM	#65 (permalink)
Jordo! A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: nirvana Posts: 6,394 Drives: 2023 NATM Rep Power: 418	Probably less than ideal VVEL settings... be interesting to see boost and AFR curves overlayed with power and torque output. BTW, what kind of knock sensor? Resonant or non-resonant? Anyone able to output that from the ECU? __________________ Enjoy it. Destroy it.

06-15-2010, 08:14 PM	#67 (permalink)
Seb@SZ Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Chatsworth Posts: 277 Drives: Zs Rep Power: 24	The waviness can be many things. Something as simple as the boost not holding steady be it the wastegate or boost controller settings (gain, limiter, auto learn logic, etc...) Knock as well. A good way to find out if its knock or engine noise is to log the ignition timing albeit it with Cipher or the dyno equipment if possible. The timing will always start to drop off at the top you just want to make sure it does it according to the IGN maps. Cam timing also plays a good amount (overlap, etc) so VVEL could be it. Although some forced induction VQ37s look smooth as a baby's butt. A good test for knock if logging is not possible is to throw in some 100 octane and see if it smooths out. Logging fuel pressure would also be handy if a pump is having trouble keeping up and also calculating injector duty cycle. AFR would be a good indicator of this. Also like Phimosis mentioned the way the car is strapped down and the ability for the clutch to hold the power can have an effect. Typically when a clutch slips the graph will look much different. __________________ Z Car Specialists www.specialtyz.com Blog http://specialtyz.com/blog/

07-08-2010, 06:43 PM	#71 (permalink)
Kastley85891 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: ATX 370 - Sold Posts: 1,149 Drives: 2003 Wagon Rep Power: 18	New GT - nice, plenty of potential __________________ Boosted V8 hunter 2850 lbs and 375WHP

06-15-2010, 10:18 AM	#63 (permalink)
danielw Base Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Concord, NC Posts: 80 Drives: 05 350Z Rep Power: 16	This is what it looks like when timing is being pulled

06-15-2010, 06:34 PM	#66 (permalink)
Phimosis Enthusiast Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Oildale, CA Posts: 412 Drives: 2013 911 4S Rep Power: 416	In the original post, the dip from 6,000 to 6,250 rpm was around 25 lb/ft of torque. In the graph that Daniel just posted, the biggest dip is around 40 lb/ft or torque. I don't think that difference defines whether or not it is retarding the timing. That graph looks like a turbo'd vq35 with more boost... conventional camshaft sees torque fall off at high rpms where the vvel keeps pulling. If it is a high boost 3.5, it's retarding more degrees of timing to compensate for the high boost. If you run California's 91 octane vs the 93 octane the rest of the country gets, it will retard more. If your engine is heat soaked when you do the run it will retard the timing even though you've done 5 runs where it didn't retard the timing. Also, when you remap the ECU, if you advance timing aggressively, it's going to have to retard it based on the knock sensor and get choppy. If you map it conservitavely it won't need to retard and your graph will be smooth. Also, if you forget and leave traction control on during your dyno run, it would do the same thing. If you don't have enough weight on the rear end and it's spinning (a little), it would also make a wavy dyno curve. I still say, get the ODB output if it's available.

06-24-2010, 09:24 PM	#68 (permalink)
ImportConvert A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: SWMO Posts: 4,454 Drives: 2019 CX5 GT Reserve Rep Power: 7627	How does the MAF work on this setup? I have read that the MAF used on the G37/370Z needs to be placed before the FI instead of after. I am not that familiar with the platform, though, so correct me if I am wrong. How should a car with a tune/setup like this do long-term regarding engine durability?

10-29-2010, 09:37 AM	#72 (permalink)
#452-LE Base Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Behind Dulles AP Posts: 117 Drives: '09 370Z 7AT-Stg2 TT Rep Power: 15	Any updates on this 7-AT TT project? How is it holding up? Mileage driven? Type of driving? Any tweaks necessary? Tranny slippage? Funky smells/sounds/sightings................ __________________ '06 R6 track,'06 R1-LE track,'09 848 street, '11Duc Multistrada 1200ST, '07 STi T-back '09 GTM stg2 TT-370Z-7AT (470whp/ 422wtq @10PSI)

10-29-2010, 12:10 PM	#74 (permalink)
daisuke149 My *** is famous! Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Alpharetta, GA Posts: 4,849 Drives: 2013 Boss 302 PW Rep Power: 31	the pictures in the first page arent loading for me.. i assume this is that blue car?? If so that car really is sick.. and yeah its very tame until you 100% gun then oh man. Ask Tony (2theextreme) he took a ride in it... when he came back.. he was seriously chewing his finger nails!!!

11-07-2010, 12:35 AM	#75 (permalink)
efuseakay Enthusiast Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: The DAYNGA ZONE! Posts: 404 Drives: 2010 G37xS Sedan Rep Power: 15	I can't wait to win the Lotto.

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