STILLEN 370Z Supercharger System - Announcement!!!

Zsteve · 09-09-2010, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shumby

Yes i did ask it that and boom. My sxuper hot wife was in the car with me. lol. My install took a long time. but i had alot of other work done at GTM at the same time with some custom work for my oil and tranny coolers plus the Camp II install. I did lie it did not do everytrhing i asked of it. I asked it to get me more BJ's but that has not happened yet.

ummm wife in passenger seat.

RCZ · 09-09-2010, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomnavone

Umm, how can the differnece be higher than 2-4%? What math are u using? Stillen math?

The "SAE Air Correction Factor" which is used by all the dyno guys is:

SAE CF = 1.18[Ps/(Pm-Pv)][sqrt(Tm/Ts)]-0.18
(sqrt = square root)

This formula is right out of SAE Paper #J1349 (revision June 1990), and is the latest form of the air correction formula. SAE assumes 15% frictional loss within the engine, which is probably close for a piston engine. NOTE: this is NOT the losses from the crankshaft to the rear wheels, that is a different loss.

Ps = standard pressure
Pm = measured pressure (barometric pressure)
Pv = vapor pressure of water (relates to RH%)
Ts = standard temperature
Tm = measured temperature

The SAE baseline values are:
------------------------------------
Ps = 29.235 inHg
Ts = 77.0 deg F (534 deg R)
Pv = 0 inHg (dry air, no humidity)

Pv will not be 0 inHg during a dyno run, but will equate to the vapor pressure of water vapor in the air, which is a function of humidity.

P units = inHg
T units = deg R (deg F + 460). If not in deg R, you will get a wrong answer!

So, the CF will depend on where the actual air temperature, pressure and humidity is with respect the standard values listed above.

The CF can be less than, or more than 1.00. If you tested your Z06 on a dyno on a day when T = 77 deg F, P = 29.325 and the RH = 0% in the shop where the dyno was, then the CF would be exactly 1.00. As you can see, there are MANY combinations of T, P and RH that will give you the same CF.

Note, the Pv (vapor pressure of water) defines the RH% and is subtracted from the atmospheric pressure because the water vapor "displaces" that much pressure, and essentially makes it equivalent dry air (RH = 0%) at the resulting pressure of Pm - Pv.

BTW, the pressure values in the formula has more effect on HP than the temperature values (square root of a ratio)

Source: z06vette.com

_______________________

Yes Stillen Math. My correction was of 5.3% according to the dynojet.

You know, with an attitude like yours, I'm glad you're having so many problems.

tomnavone · 09-09-2010, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCZ

You know, with an attitude like yours, I'm glad you're having so many problems.

Thanks

More bad news for stillen on the way wait for weiboys dyno results from today

toner123 · 09-09-2010, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCZ

You know, with an attitude like yours, I'm glad you're having so many problems.

I don't understand why you would say that. I understand your car is running great but there are alot of people on here who are not happy with the product that was delievered. I also believe that they have givin stillen more time then really what I would have givin to correct the problem. Also to add more fuel to the fire the new tune isn't lving up to what he was expecting. SO I think he has every right to have a pissy atttude towards stillen just like everyone else in his stuation regardless of what company it is. Thats just my opinion RC and I can understand his frustration. I know stillen is tying to make it right and I respect that but if it was me they would be giving me my money back one way or the other and I would have went with the GTM kit.
Frank

Osiris · 09-09-2010, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toner123

I don't understand why you would say that. I understand your car is running great but there are alot of people on here who are not happy with the product that was delievered. I also believe that they have givin stillen more time then really what I would have givin to correct the problem. Also to add more fuel to the fire the new tune isn't lving up to what he was expecting. SO I think he has every right to have a pissy atttude towards stillen just like everyone else in his stuation regardless of what company it is. Thats just my opinion RC and I can understand his frustration. I know stillen is tying to make it right and I respect that but if it was me they would be giving me my money back one way or the other and I would have went with the GTM kit.
Frank

Chris_1 · 09-09-2010, 10:58 PM

I am trying to keep up with this thread, but this stinks. My thing is, maybe stillen can refund money to people and have them have a shop they trust by each customer tune the vehicle for the money they refund to the customer? This way each car will have its specific tune, and should run without issue, or am I just whistling dixie?

theDreamer · 09-09-2010, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris@WheelsDirectOnline.com

I am trying to keep up with this thread, but this stinks. My thing is, maybe stillen can refund money to people and have them have a shop they trust by each customer tune the vehicle for the money they refund to the customer? This way each car will have its specific tune, and should run without issue, or am I just whistling dixie?

The issue with that is, the warranty people want means it has to have a Stillen tune, also CARB certification only comes with the Stillen tune.

toner123 · 09-09-2010, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris@WheelsDirectOnline.com

I am trying to keep up with this thread, but this stinks. My thing is, maybe stillen can refund money to people and have them have a shop they trust by each customer tune the vehicle for the money they refund to the customer? This way each car will have its specific tune, and should run without issue, or am I just whistling dixie?

You know what I agree with you. That will take care of the people that already have the kit instead of there car sitting in there garage waiting for the fix. Yes it is a temporary fix to a problem but at least the people with the kits now can go enjoy there car before winter gets here. Stillen has the kit on hold and there not selling anymore till they get the problem fixed. Which is smart on there part but they need to get the people that already purchased one taking care of instead of trying to kill two birds with one stone. If this was me this is what I would tell them. To pay for my car to get tuned and verify the data logs so I can keep the warranty or give me my money back..
Frank

stormcrow · 09-09-2010, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCZ

You know, with an attitude like yours, I'm glad you're having so many problems.

I have bitten my tongue quite a bit as of late. But, these kinds of comments are just plain wrong, Raul. You know better than to let emotion flow from your fingertips into the keyboard. You are bigger than this.

tomnavone · 09-09-2010, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toner123

You know what I agree with you. That will take care of the people that already have the kit instead of there car sitting in there garage waiting for the fix. Yes it is a temporary fix to a problem but at least the people with the kits now can go enjoy there car before winter gets here. Stillen has the kit on hold and there not selling anymore till they get the problem fixed. Which is smart on there part but they need to get the people that already purchased one taking care of instead of trying to kill two birds with one stone. If this was me this is what I would tell them. To pay for my car to get tuned and verify the data logs so I can keep the warranty or give me my money back..
Frank

Id take that i just want to drive it before winter gets here and it goes into storage. Change of plans not sending my car to stillen. More to follow.......

toner123 · 09-09-2010, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormcrow

I have bitten my tongue quite a bit as of late. But, these kinds of comments are just plain wrong, Raul. You know better than to let emotion flow from your fingertips into the keyboard. You are bigger than this.

I was waiting for this and knew it was coming. I hate to say this but Jeremy did call this out and a lot of people gave him **** for it.
Glade to see your still active in the threads bro and I hope everything is going well with you
Frank

Zsteve · 09-10-2010, 12:04 AM

So is Stillen going to comment on the new tune? I understand that the tune has to be locked for carb legal, but what I dont understand is why dont they just tune it the way others have and then lock that tune? It might mean switching the program they are using but cant a regular tune be locked?

OKC370Z · 09-10-2010, 08:16 AM

I purchased the Stillen FI kit and had Chris with Failsafe install it. I did have to wait on the new tune because this all took place right as Chris ordered my FI kit. So from day one my '09 with 7 AT has had the "new" tune. I feel a lot like Phimosis, where I'm a bit disappointed that the car did not put down the advertised power and torque. I'm more specifically disappointed in the amount of torque gained. My numbers where 389 whp / 290 Wtq on a fairly mild day, ambient was in the mid 80's. I find it interesting because Chris custom tuned LateralG'z car and the dyno results were very close to mine, except that ambient on the day Chris tuned LateralG's car was in the 100's. Also, note that LateraG'z car has a standard trans.

I owned a 2001 Mustang Bullitt GT that had head work, cams and custom tune and was seeing 12 psi of boost. That car with a conservative custom tune put 450 whp to the ground on a mustang dyno, but (and a big but at that) the drivability of the car was never right and no matter what three different tuners tried, the idle or steady state throttle was never right. One thing I can say for the Stillen tune is that drivability with the "new" tune is superb and anyone who drove the car not knowing there was an FI kit under the hood would know any different.

I also had Chris install Stillen's catback system and I really like how smooth and progressive the power and sound is with the FI, catback combo. The rough sound of the stock engine is gone, replaced with a really nice exotic exhaust note that is not intrusive in anyway and most importantly absolutely no drone at any speed in any gear. The SC puts out a very small whine at idle but disappears when you accelerate, replaced by the intoxicating sound of the exhaust. Most might not find the exhaust sound intoxicating but I come from a history of V8 motors and I love the sound of a strong running V8. I have not had much experience with V6 motors and I was concerned when I first seen how big the exhaust tips are on the Stillen exhaust. At first I was afraid the car was going to sound like a Honda Accord with one of those coffee cans installed on the back. I'm very happy to say that it does not even come close to sounding like that at all. I am quite pleased with the sound from idle all the way to redline.

As for performance as I stated I am a bit disappointed but not to the point where I'm thinking about removing the system and demanding my money back. After all the kit is priced very reasonably for what all comes with it (at least at the intro price). The power is smooth and the tune does increase the performance right off of idle as well, the car has a lot more thrust below 3k rpm then stock and throttle response is great. With the 7AT first gear is almost useless, if you step into it hard in first the tires will just go up in smoke. I find myself short shifting about 4-5 grand into second and then get into it and it still breaks the tires loose and will kick out sideways very easily if desired (which I desire allot).

What I don't understand following all of the FI threads, is that all the operating systems, whether GTM or Stillen, are operating at 6-8 psi of boost. Yet the numbers produced are all over the place with minimal differences between cars as far as exhaust systems go. And this is with some of them having Stillen's tune and others with custom tunes. IMHO, if the same motors are operating at 8 psi of boost (which is just a reference of manifold pressure based on a certain amount of air moving through it) then they should produce very similar amounts of HP. The only differences would be based on the SC itself and its curve. Most centrifugals these days use the same technology and design concepts to produce their SC's. If one SC is making considerably more HP than another it would have to produce significantly more boost overall or in a specific rpm range. Take for instance GTM's SC which makes more HP than Stillen's. It supposedly is doing so at the same boost levels, and if it is making more boost earlier on in the rpm range of the motor it would certainly make more than 8 psi of boost at the top end of the rpm range. Therefore, it just does not equate that the GTM kit can make that much more than the Stillen which is producing the same boost levels at said air volume through the manifold. Because of this it is my opinion that the GTM and Stillen kits make relatively similar gains on a stock 3.7 no matter the exhaust setup and the differences we are seeing in dyno graphs is due to types of dyno's used, ambient conditions (temps, humidity, elevations, etc.), initial dyno software input, car setup on the dyno (is it strapped down tight, could it be too tight an impose to much resistance), etc. There's a lot of variables involved and like many of said before a dyno is tool good for tuning and comparing baseline with added mods on the same car on the same dyno.

I have chased horsepower and numbers before with the Mustang Bullitt and when doing so I used three different tuners, all with different dyno's and they all indicated very different results. I also discovered as we decreased pulley sizes on the SC to increase boost we would only gain 15-20 whp per smaller size. I found this to be true as I watched others do the same with different SC's on the same or similar motor as mine.

In conclusion if you look at everyone’s results that have posted so far, there is significant variances in HP and TQ from one car to the next even with the same FI kit. This tells me that variables mentioned above play a significant role in what the dyno graph is going to look like and IMHO I don't think there really is that much difference. For instance take a look at my numbers compared to LateralG'z, they are very similar despite the fact that mine has the Stillen tune and G'z has the custom tune. Both were run on the same dyno and the results due differ slightly but ambient conditions were different at the time each car was run.

You really want to know if the GTM kit is producing that much more power than the Stillen? Take two Z's with the same setup (exhaust, tires, etc.) and ensure both FI kits are producing the same boost levels and then have one driver take them both down the quarter mile back to back. I'm willing to bet the difference is negligible.

Oh, and I forgot to say that Chris at Failsafe Performance in Tulsa did an outstanding job of installing everything on my car and when I went to pick it up it was detailed and waiting for me. I highly recommend him and his services.

Slynky · 09-10-2010, 09:01 AM

Nice writeup, OKC...

If I may, what did install cost?

And for anyone else caring to prove I'm an idiot...does this system negate any aftermarket CAI?

rednek01 · 09-10-2010, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomnavone

Umm, how can the differnece be higher than 2-4%? What math are u using? Stillen math?

That is awesome I gotta use that now!

09-10-2010, 12:04 AM	#1707 (permalink)
Zsteve A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: TX Posts: 3,298 Drives: the 2 balled club Rep Power: 22	So is Stillen going to comment on the new tune? I understand that the tune has to be locked for carb legal, but what I dont understand is why dont they just tune it the way others have and then lock that tune? It might mean switching the program they are using but cant a regular tune be locked? __________________ 2010 LS3 C6 Silver coupe corvette

09-10-2010, 08:16 AM	#1708 (permalink)
OKC370Z Base Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Oklahoma City Posts: 46 Drives: 09 370Z Grey Rep Power: 16	Two weeks with new tune I purchased the Stillen FI kit and had Chris with Failsafe install it. I did have to wait on the new tune because this all took place right as Chris ordered my FI kit. So from day one my '09 with 7 AT has had the "new" tune. I feel a lot like Phimosis, where I'm a bit disappointed that the car did not put down the advertised power and torque. I'm more specifically disappointed in the amount of torque gained. My numbers where 389 whp / 290 Wtq on a fairly mild day, ambient was in the mid 80's. I find it interesting because Chris custom tuned LateralG'z car and the dyno results were very close to mine, except that ambient on the day Chris tuned LateralG's car was in the 100's. Also, note that LateraG'z car has a standard trans. I owned a 2001 Mustang Bullitt GT that had head work, cams and custom tune and was seeing 12 psi of boost. That car with a conservative custom tune put 450 whp to the ground on a mustang dyno, but (and a big but at that) the drivability of the car was never right and no matter what three different tuners tried, the idle or steady state throttle was never right. One thing I can say for the Stillen tune is that drivability with the "new" tune is superb and anyone who drove the car not knowing there was an FI kit under the hood would know any different. I also had Chris install Stillen's catback system and I really like how smooth and progressive the power and sound is with the FI, catback combo. The rough sound of the stock engine is gone, replaced with a really nice exotic exhaust note that is not intrusive in anyway and most importantly absolutely no drone at any speed in any gear. The SC puts out a very small whine at idle but disappears when you accelerate, replaced by the intoxicating sound of the exhaust. Most might not find the exhaust sound intoxicating but I come from a history of V8 motors and I love the sound of a strong running V8. I have not had much experience with V6 motors and I was concerned when I first seen how big the exhaust tips are on the Stillen exhaust. At first I was afraid the car was going to sound like a Honda Accord with one of those coffee cans installed on the back. I'm very happy to say that it does not even come close to sounding like that at all. I am quite pleased with the sound from idle all the way to redline. As for performance as I stated I am a bit disappointed but not to the point where I'm thinking about removing the system and demanding my money back. After all the kit is priced very reasonably for what all comes with it (at least at the intro price). The power is smooth and the tune does increase the performance right off of idle as well, the car has a lot more thrust below 3k rpm then stock and throttle response is great. With the 7AT first gear is almost useless, if you step into it hard in first the tires will just go up in smoke. I find myself short shifting about 4-5 grand into second and then get into it and it still breaks the tires loose and will kick out sideways very easily if desired (which I desire allot). What I don't understand following all of the FI threads, is that all the operating systems, whether GTM or Stillen, are operating at 6-8 psi of boost. Yet the numbers produced are all over the place with minimal differences between cars as far as exhaust systems go. And this is with some of them having Stillen's tune and others with custom tunes. IMHO, if the same motors are operating at 8 psi of boost (which is just a reference of manifold pressure based on a certain amount of air moving through it) then they should produce very similar amounts of HP. The only differences would be based on the SC itself and its curve. Most centrifugals these days use the same technology and design concepts to produce their SC's. If one SC is making considerably more HP than another it would have to produce significantly more boost overall or in a specific rpm range. Take for instance GTM's SC which makes more HP than Stillen's. It supposedly is doing so at the same boost levels, and if it is making more boost earlier on in the rpm range of the motor it would certainly make more than 8 psi of boost at the top end of the rpm range. Therefore, it just does not equate that the GTM kit can make that much more than the Stillen which is producing the same boost levels at said air volume through the manifold. Because of this it is my opinion that the GTM and Stillen kits make relatively similar gains on a stock 3.7 no matter the exhaust setup and the differences we are seeing in dyno graphs is due to types of dyno's used, ambient conditions (temps, humidity, elevations, etc.), initial dyno software input, car setup on the dyno (is it strapped down tight, could it be too tight an impose to much resistance), etc. There's a lot of variables involved and like many of said before a dyno is tool good for tuning and comparing baseline with added mods on the same car on the same dyno. I have chased horsepower and numbers before with the Mustang Bullitt and when doing so I used three different tuners, all with different dyno's and they all indicated very different results. I also discovered as we decreased pulley sizes on the SC to increase boost we would only gain 15-20 whp per smaller size. I found this to be true as I watched others do the same with different SC's on the same or similar motor as mine. In conclusion if you look at everyone’s results that have posted so far, there is significant variances in HP and TQ from one car to the next even with the same FI kit. This tells me that variables mentioned above play a significant role in what the dyno graph is going to look like and IMHO I don't think there really is that much difference. For instance take a look at my numbers compared to LateralG'z, they are very similar despite the fact that mine has the Stillen tune and G'z has the custom tune. Both were run on the same dyno and the results due differ slightly but ambient conditions were different at the time each car was run. You really want to know if the GTM kit is producing that much more power than the Stillen? Take two Z's with the same setup (exhaust, tires, etc.) and ensure both FI kits are producing the same boost levels and then have one driver take them both down the quarter mile back to back. I'm willing to bet the difference is negligible. Oh, and I forgot to say that Chris at Failsafe Performance in Tulsa did an outstanding job of installing everything on my car and when I went to pick it up it was detailed and waiting for me. I highly recommend him and his services. Last edited by OKC370Z; 09-10-2010 at 08:20 AM.

09-10-2010, 09:01 AM	#1709 (permalink)
Slynky Track Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: McDonough, GA Posts: 595 Drives: 2010 Red 370Z T/S/N Rep Power: 17	Nice writeup, OKC... If I may, what did install cost? And for anyone else caring to prove I'm an idiot...does this system negate any aftermarket CAI? __________________ A veteran is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America," for an amount of "up to and including my life."

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09-09-2010, 10:58 PM	#1701 (permalink)
Chris_1 Track Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Statewide Posts: 838 Drives: Nissan 370Z Roadster Rep Power: 16	I am trying to keep up with this thread, but this stinks. My thing is, maybe stillen can refund money to people and have them have a shop they trust by each customer tune the vehicle for the money they refund to the customer? This way each car will have its specific tune, and should run without issue, or am I just whistling dixie?