A to B

fstrnldr · 03-04-2010, 11:11 PM

as far as other cars go if we take both GTM and STILLEN out of the equation and just talk about the chargers themselves:

Vortech has put out some impressive numbers, and has some good sized chargers available making bigger horse power numbers possible (if they physically fit in the kits location). They have been around for quite a while, and has even had its own kit for previous generation Z's. The prolem with them, from my point of view, are the multiple issues i have both heard about and seen first hand. This goes as far back as the Honda kits when they first came out years ago to even the "whoops we had a bad batch of bearings" in the 350Z kits. The good thing is that unlike the earlier version the new V3s are no longer using engine oil so if there is a problem then it won't send the bearing shrapnel into the engines oil pan to be picked up and spread into the motor. The bad part is if you take out the bearing the compressor wheel is going to hit the side of the housing. In some cases the IC may save you and catch the big debris from entering the engine. I would also feel more comfortable with a larger oil volume for the charger itself, we all know more oil volume means it will stay cooler for a longer period.

Rotrex is a much newer company, and being from halfway around the world, there just isn't as much info available first hand about them. They are included as factory equipment on supercars like the Koenigsegg which i would assume is good sign, but i don't have the coin to drop on one of those so no first hand knowledge in arena. They are also offered as aftermarket units for everything from Honda's to RUF Porsche's, to Ferrari's, but most of the US vehicles are newer applications. As far as i have seen the design is unique to the Rotrex and of course the HKS copy, so its hard to judge them based on other similar past or present chargers being offered. They do offer a slight challenge in terms of the install since they have their own oiling system, but i think this is going to be a bigger challenge for the designer than the end user/installer. The design is also suppose to offer more boost sooner, creating more usable torque which is what it seems like is one of the big arguments for going with the supercharger over a turbocharger. The other added plus (in my book) is that the design is much quieter. Maybe i'm getting old, but i get very annoyed by the overly loud cars on the street. Now track is a different story, but for daily drivers, or weekend cruising etc, a car with a good subtle tone and good usable power is what i would be looking for.

From my point of view the Rotrex would be a great second choice. My first choice would always be a turbo set up. The Vortech for me wouldn't even be an option. Now if someone can figure out how fit that Lysholm unit that Vortech is now offering under the hood, then i might change up that order a bit.

Just my 2¢

Buddy Revell · 03-05-2010, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fstrnldr

as far as other cars go if we take both GTM and STILLEN out of the equation and just talk about the chargers themselves:

Vortech has put out some impressive numbers, and has some good sized chargers available making bigger horse power numbers possible (if they physically fit in the kits location). They have been around for quite a while, and has even had its own kit for previous generation Z's. The prolem with them, from my point of view, are the multiple issues i have both heard about and seen first hand. This goes as far back as the Honda kits when they first came out years ago to even the "whoops we had a bad batch of bearings" in the 350Z kits. The good thing is that unlike the earlier version the new V3s are no longer using engine oil so if there is a problem then it won't send the bearing shrapnel into the engines oil pan to be picked up and spread into the motor. The bad part is if you take out the bearing the compressor wheel is going to hit the side of the housing. In some cases the IC may save you and catch the big debris from entering the engine. I would also feel more comfortable with a larger oil volume for the charger itself, we all know more oil volume means it will stay cooler for a longer period.

Rotrex is a much newer company, and being from halfway around the world, there just isn't as much info available first hand about them. They are included as factory equipment on supercars like the Koenigsegg which i would assume is good sign, but i don't have the coin to drop on one of those so no first hand knowledge in arena. They are also offered as aftermarket units for everything from Honda's to RUF Porsche's, to Ferrari's, but most of the US vehicles are newer applications. As far as i have seen the design is unique to the Rotrex and of course the HKS copy, so its hard to judge them based on other similar past or present chargers being offered. They do offer a slight challenge in terms of the install since they have their own oiling system, but i think this is going to be a bigger challenge for the designer than the end user/installer. The design is also suppose to offer more boost sooner, creating more usable torque which is what it seems like is one of the big arguments for going with the supercharger over a turbocharger. The other added plus (in my book) is that the design is much quieter. Maybe i'm getting old, but i get very annoyed by the overly loud cars on the street. Now track is a different story, but for daily drivers, or weekend cruising etc, a car with a good subtle tone and good usable power is what i would be looking for.

From my point of view the Rotrex would be a great second choice. My first choice would always be a turbo set up. The Vortech for me wouldn't even be an option. Now if someone can figure out how fit that Lysholm unit that Vortech is now offering under the hood, then i might change up that order a bit.

Just my 2¢

Great post. A very good comparison of the Rotrex vs. the Vortech V-3 separate from the rest of the companies' systems.

MMC Racing · 03-05-2010, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddy Revell

Great post. A very good comparison of the Rotrex vs. the Vortech V-3 separate from the rest of the companies' systems.

I'll be the bad guy and say can't agree. 2nd to 3rd hand knowledge reviews don't bring much insight.

If we look at the 350z, there are some obvious points:

1. Stillen kit was a complete failure in price and performance. It's small niche was CARB certification, but Vortech had that too. If we had a way of collecting numbers I bet the Stillen kit was removed in the highest % to be replaced with another kit (turbo or supercharger)
2. GTM's/HKS kit was a commercial failure (based on how many kits sold). Good performance numbers, but initially a very high price and the biggest claim to fame over the Vortech kit was it was quiet. Can't argue there - owned the Vortech and the low RPM rattle was annoying.
3. Vortech by far is the most used supercharger on the 350z. There was a bad batch of them a few year back. Vortech brought the most completely kit at that price level. No oil feed into the newer V3's are a nice improvement. I haven't heard a V3 yet to know if it is quieter.

Buddy Revell · 03-05-2010, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMC Racing

I'll be the bad guy and say can't agree. 2nd to 3rd hand knowledge reviews don't bring much insight.

If we look at the 350z, there are some obvious points:

1. Stillen kit was a complete failure in price and performance. It's small niche was CARB certification, but Vortech had that too. If we had a way of collecting numbers I bet the Stillen kit was removed in the highest % to be replaced with another kit (turbo or supercharger)
2. GTM's/HKS kit was a commercial failure (based on how many kits sold). Good performance numbers, but initially a very high price and the biggest claim to fame over the Vortech kit was it was quiet. Can't argue there - owned the Vortech and the low RPM rattle was annoying.
3. Vortech by far is the most used supercharger on the 350z. There was a bad batch of them a few year back. Vortech brought the most completely kit at that price level. No oil feed into the newer V3's are a nice improvement. I haven't heard a V3 yet to know if it is quieter.

Hmmm...if you don't agree that fstrnldr shared some good information on Rotrex and Vortech blowers (he wasn't talking about complete kits, just the actual SC units), please explain which of his points are incorrect.

1. What does Stillen's roots-based 350Z kit have to do with fstrnldr's thoughts on the Rotrex or Vortech units? He wasn't talking about the old Eaton blower at all nor was he talking about any company's complete SC kit.

2. What does HKS's commercial success on it's 350Z SC kit have to do with the fact that the Rotrex unit is pretty quiet and has been used in various SC systems like the Honda kits by kraftwerks/Oscar Jackson? I don't think he was implying that Rotrex's unit was used in more applications than Vortech's or anything like that.

3. Was he incorrect about any of the facts concerning Vortech (solid peak power potential, improved design due to no longer using the engine's oil, the bearing issue that happened with some of their older units, etc.)? Was he incorrect in any of his points about the Rotrex (newer company with not as much info about it, quiet design, good midrange power for a centrifugal unit, etc.)? Those were accurate points, as far as i know.

MMC Racing · 03-05-2010, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddy Revell

Hmmm...if you don't agree that fstrnldr shared some good information on Rotrex and Vortech blowers (he wasn't talking about complete kits, just the actual SC units), please explain which of his points are incorrect.

1. What does Stillen's roots-based 350Z kit have to do with fstrnldr's thoughts on the Rotrex or Vortech units? He wasn't talking about the old Eaton blower at all nor was he talking about any company's complete SC kit.

2. What does HKS's commercial success on it's 350Z SC kit have to do with the fact that the Rotrex unit is pretty quiet and has been used in various SC systems like the Honda kits by kraftwerks/Oscar Jackson? I don't think he was implying that Rotrex's unit was used in more applications than Vortech's or anything like that.

3. Was he incorrect about any of the facts concerning Vortech (solid peak power potential, improved design due to no longer using the engine's oil, the bearing issue that happened with some of their older units, etc.)? Was he incorrect in any of his points about the Rotrex (newer company with not as much info about it, quiet design, good midrange power for a centrifugal unit, etc.)? Those were accurate points, as far as i know.

I don't believe that his points, nothing 1st hand, brought any extra value. Anyone with the ability to use a search button already know rotrex are quieter than Vortechs. Specific to these kits, the position in the engine bay will only compound this difference.

1-3. I quoted you ,not him. My 1-3 points have nothing to do with him. They are my opinions on the history of superchargers on the Z platform which I have actually owned, worked on, or at least seen in person.

Buddy Revell · 03-05-2010, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMC Racing

I don't believe that his points, nothing 1st hand, brought any extra value. Anyone with the ability to use a search button already know rotrex are quieter than Vortechs. Specific to these kits, the position in the engine bay will only compound this difference.

Eh, we'll have to agree to disagree then. IMO, there's definitely value In sharing accurate info with many on this forum who aren't as knowledgeable about these superchargers.

fstrnldr · 03-05-2010, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMC Racing

I'll be the bad guy and say can't agree. 2nd to 3rd hand knowledge reviews don't bring much insight.

I wouldn't call my knowledge 2nd or 3rd hand by any means. I have been in the "import scene" since the beginning, and have been working in automotive field for more than 15 years. This includes working in performance shops, and owning my own for several years. I was around to install and test the vortech kits when they were released for the B series Hondas back in the day, and was around to see what they did at the track, and how long it lasted before the blower had to be replaced. I have installed superchargers from multiple companies on the Z33, as well as other platforms. I have also owned factory supercharged cars to see how those engineers made things work, and what they chose to do to create more power and more important made it last for hundreds of thousands of miles.

The points i made that i didn't have hands on experience with, i tried to make it very clear that i didn't have hands on experience with them as to not confuse people. IF you have a different facts, and opinions on the chargers themselves outside of the two companies that are producing kits for the Z34 like the original poster asked for, then i would say post them up.

LaSeeno · 03-05-2010, 01:03 PM

Wow, I just now saw that the GTM kit is stealth. That looks very nasty.

03-04-2010, 11:11 PM	#1 (permalink)
fstrnldr Base Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: CA Posts: 170 Drives: Canyonero Rep Power: 17	as far as other cars go if we take both GTM and STILLEN out of the equation and just talk about the chargers themselves: Vortech has put out some impressive numbers, and has some good sized chargers available making bigger horse power numbers possible (if they physically fit in the kits location). They have been around for quite a while, and has even had its own kit for previous generation Z's. The prolem with them, from my point of view, are the multiple issues i have both heard about and seen first hand. This goes as far back as the Honda kits when they first came out years ago to even the "whoops we had a bad batch of bearings" in the 350Z kits. The good thing is that unlike the earlier version the new V3s are no longer using engine oil so if there is a problem then it won't send the bearing shrapnel into the engines oil pan to be picked up and spread into the motor. The bad part is if you take out the bearing the compressor wheel is going to hit the side of the housing. In some cases the IC may save you and catch the big debris from entering the engine. I would also feel more comfortable with a larger oil volume for the charger itself, we all know more oil volume means it will stay cooler for a longer period. Rotrex is a much newer company, and being from halfway around the world, there just isn't as much info available first hand about them. They are included as factory equipment on supercars like the Koenigsegg which i would assume is good sign, but i don't have the coin to drop on one of those so no first hand knowledge in arena. They are also offered as aftermarket units for everything from Honda's to RUF Porsche's, to Ferrari's, but most of the US vehicles are newer applications. As far as i have seen the design is unique to the Rotrex and of course the HKS copy, so its hard to judge them based on other similar past or present chargers being offered. They do offer a slight challenge in terms of the install since they have their own oiling system, but i think this is going to be a bigger challenge for the designer than the end user/installer. The design is also suppose to offer more boost sooner, creating more usable torque which is what it seems like is one of the big arguments for going with the supercharger over a turbocharger. The other added plus (in my book) is that the design is much quieter. Maybe i'm getting old, but i get very annoyed by the overly loud cars on the street. Now track is a different story, but for daily drivers, or weekend cruising etc, a car with a good subtle tone and good usable power is what i would be looking for. From my point of view the Rotrex would be a great second choice. My first choice would always be a turbo set up. The Vortech for me wouldn't even be an option. Now if someone can figure out how fit that Lysholm unit that Vortech is now offering under the hood, then i might change up that order a bit. Just my 2¢

03-05-2010, 01:03 PM	#8 (permalink)
LaSeeno Base Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Mars Posts: 129 Drives: NA Rep Power: 17	Wow, I just now saw that the GTM kit is stealth. That looks very nasty.