Agreed, can we?

They should atleast make some kind of statement at this point...

Well, not to make excuses, but there have been a few things that have happened that are beyond our control. They aren't bad things, in fact they're quite good, but it has delayed finishing this particular goal. We do apologize for the delay in getting this done as we know there are a few people that are waiting for us to get CARB certified.

Thanks for the update, maybe it's just me but I think there would be plenty of people (myself included) in the market for a carb legal GTM supercharger kit.

In Seattle? Just so you know, I'm from Seattle and there is no need to have CARB anything on your car there. Our kit as it is currently would be perfectly fine. Heck, you could even go with our Twin Turbo Kit, 3" downpipes with open wastegate dumps, totally cat-less and pass King and Snohomish county's OBDII scan and get your tags. Piece of cake.

Really, the only people that need CARB approved parts are people that live in the People's Republic of California. If you live anywhere outside of the Golden State, CARB is completely and totally irrelevant.

Thanks for the heads up, and to be honest I wish I knew more about the subject with emission laws. But, I will say this I don't want to come close to breaking any laws (local, state, or federal) with modding a car. I also do move around a bit with my job (who knows, some day I may move to Cali) and having something carb certified would make life way easier plus give me some legal peace of mind. If I had to guess I'm probably not the only person who doesn't live in California but still wants something carb certified or at the vary least 100% legal in the state the car is registered. Then again, maybe I am misinformed on the issue.

You're not the only person interested in a CARB-certified GTM supercharger kit. Although many emissions testing stations rely on an OBDII check, it is my understanding that some places still use tailpipe sniffers and/or visual inspections. It varies from state to state. If I'm not mistaken, the California standards are considered to be the nation's most strict. Having CARB certification gives you the peace of mind that you can pass any inspection in any state. This is extremely useful if your job requires you to move periodically.

Glad to hear I'm not alone.

Also, even if your state doesn't have emissions testing isn't it still illegal to have test pips or even high flow cats? I'd like to find out where installing a supercharger or turbocharger fits into that category.

Thanks for the update. What is the new target?

Same here, I would like to know as well.

It is always crickets when dates are requested.

That's what it seems like... I was going to give the benefit of the doubt being that it's Sunday and some people do needs a time off. But, if there's no real update in a few days I'm going to assume it's never going to happen. I want 50 state legal boosted power, and I've just read so many bad reviews/things about the Stillen supercharger that I'm not considering that one anymore.

Crickets indeed....

Waiting too.

I'm not sure why any of you think that GTM can predict when a state-run organization, namely CARB, is going to issue approval for a kit. May as well read tea leaves.

I'll admit I don't know anything about the carb process and 3 years or more could be the norm to getting something carb approved for all I know. But, to me when an initial announcement is made almost 3 years ago with no light at the end of the tunnel I'm just going to assume it's not going to happen. I'm not trying to blame GTM or anything, for all I know this could be normal or they could of gotten screwed by carb. I just think it's either not happening or there's more going on that the general consumer doesn't know.

Well, one bit of good news is GTM is installing a Mustang dyno, which will allow them to simulate load and do more advanced testing on their kits. This could help move the ball forward on making CARB legal kits.

Sounds great to me, this is the kind of news that lets someone like me know the ball is still rolling.

I usually stay out of this thread because I have a CARB legal Stillen kit that I've been driving around trouble free for a couple of years and I know the GTM fans will be eager to bash me, but really, call it like it is. You're based in California. Your primary market is in California, yet you claim that only a few people want the CARB kit. Then you flip-flop and say your working hard on CARB approval. Then you flip-flop again and say that it's not your fault and that the state bureaucracy is to blame. Then you flip flop some more and say that only people in California need the CARB certification. Then you flip flop again saying that final testing is days away. And when I say "you" I mean all of the official statements made by all employees of GTM on this forum.

The truth is that Stillen had to go through the same hoops and got their approval a year and a half ago, when government employees were actually being furloughed. The truth is also that you need CARB approval in Washington too. Well, unless you want to do it shady style and find a shop that will break the law. You can find shops like that in California as well. Here's how the Washington law reads, according to the DMV website:


What is the Clean Car Law?
The Clean Car Law (RCW 46.16A.060) requires vehicles across Washington State to be certified to California emission standards. Starting with 2009 models, vehicles must meet these strict clean air standards to be registered, leased, rented, licensed, or sold for use anywhere in Washington.

Did you really not know that, or was that deliberate deceit? The answer was just a few key steokes away on Google. You say you're from Washington like you are an authority on their emissions laws, but you were completely incorrect.

Over the life of this thread I haven't seen any accountability or honesty on your part. Yes, Stillen overrated their horsepower rating between their press release
And their final CARB approved tune, bit they got it done, they didn't make any excuses and they didn't bash any forum members or edit their posts after taking heat for negative or inflammatory things they said. I personally laid heavy criticism on Stillen in their threads for falling short of what they advertised. But again, they didn't make excuses and they got it done.... 18 months ago.

Interesting point. Maybe Stillen SC is really not that bad?

Agreed, 100%! I'm glad you mentioned that little nugget about Washington emission laws. If I'm not mistaken most states are starting to require that. There's no way I would ever do any shady mods and I thinks it's bad for any company to knowingly suggest such a thing. Weather one agrees with the laws or not it's still the law until it's changed.
And, about your Stillen SC. Are you on the Stillen carb legal tune? How has that been treating you? Reliable? I was under the impression that one needed to get a separate tune to keep reliability and thus making the kit not carb legal. Any info on this would be great. I've searched, and lurked on these forums for months on the issue. Seems to be conflicting thoughts every now and then.
Thanks for the post!

Just FYI, most have a mind of their own, if people can't help themselves, maybe they deserve to be mislead. Lessons learned. It's highly advisable to verify any claim anyone makes, form member or vendor.

There is nothing deceitful about what I said. I stated some facts regarding what King and Snohomish counties in Washington state do in regards to emissions testing. Yes, facts. No where in that RCW did it state anything about requiring California Executive Order Numbers in order to install a part onto your car. Furthermore, WSP does not ask you to pop your hood to see if your car is modified. They might pop you for RCW 46.37.390 Section 3: modified exhaust, however...especially if you're rolling through Federal Way. lol

I think you are misinterpreting what that law is all about...not mention the fact that you didn't even read it. Here's an excerpt from the actual law: RCW 46.16A.060: Registration

(2) The following motor vehicles are exempt from emission test requirements:

(a) Motor vehicles that are less than five years old or more than twenty-five years old;

(b) Motor vehicles that are a 2009 model year or newer;

There is no provision that pertains to any kind of smog program like the one implemented in the State of California. That law only pertains to new vehicles sold in the state of Washington. In other words, rather than a car needing to meet Federal Emissions standards, new cars sold in Washington state need to have California Emissions standards. That's not the same thing as CARB and does not mean that aftermarket parts have to have a California Executive Order number to be installed on a Washington state car. While it is true that a lot of states are pushing automotive manufacturers to build and sell cars with lower emissions, that does not mean that they are implementing multi-billion dollar smog programs like the state of California has and their laws are no where near as draconian either. The California laws are expensive to enforce and the other 49 states aren't throwing away tax payer dollars like that.

You have to understand that people modifying their cars are a very small percentage of your driving population and if you go after the big fish (the major automotive manufactures), you'll capture the vast majority of the benefits of having more strict emissions standards. Doing what the State of California does with it's set of laws is on the diminishing side of the law of diminishing returns and it takes a lot more effort on the state's part to squeeze out every last bit of compliance to its emissions standards. I hope that makes sense and you get what I'm trying to say, because my point is that most of the other states don't go to the same extreme...Washington state included.

That all said, I don't have an ETA on when we'll have CARB approval on our Supercharger Kit. As Sam said, there have been some delays for that.

Go Blues! :tup::tup:

After years and years now, those statements aren't good enough. How about just the no-******** truth? You guys are or are not actively working on getting CARB certification? Don't just keep potential customers hanging.

I'll be the first to admit that I haven't read every law on the issue and that I may be reading/interpreting them incorrectly. Which is why I want to find out more information on the issue.

RCW 46.37.390
Mufflers required — Smoke and air contaminant standards — Definitions — Penalty, exception.

(3) No person shall modify the exhaust system of a motor vehicle in a manner which will amplify or increase the noise emitted by the engine of such vehicle above that emitted by the muffler originally installed on the vehicle, and it shall be unlawful for any person to operate a motor vehicle not equipped as required by this subsection, or which has been amplified as prohibited by this subsection. A court may dismiss an infraction notice for a violation of this subsection if there is reasonable grounds to believe that the vehicle was not operated in violation of this subsection.

This subsection (3) does not apply to vehicles twenty-five or more years old or to passenger vehicles being operated off the highways in an organized racing or competitive event conducted by a recognized sanctioning body.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but the way I read that law, any aftermarket exhaust which is louder than stock is technically illegal in the state of Washington. Realistically I know you're not going to get fined for installing an aftermarket cat back exhaust but I would like to know the intent of the law.

Also, back to your emission registration comment. While I understand that a 2009 or newer cars are exempt from actual emission testing but according to section 5 of RCW 46.16A.060 it's still required for all vehicles to meet CARB standards which includes our cars even if they are exempt from testing. Here's a copy of the law and please let me know what you think on section 5. The way I read that is in order to legally register any car in Washington (with the exemptions of older cares, blah blah) the car has to meet CARB standards. Or does this regard to something else? Any advise information or input on the these issues would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

RCW 46.16A.060
Registration — Emission control inspections required — Exemptions — Educational information — Rules.


(1) The department, county auditor or other agent, or subagent appointed by the director may not issue or renew a motor vehicle registration or change the registered owner of a registered vehicle for any motor vehicle required to be inspected under chapter 70.120 RCW, unless the application for issuance or renewal is: (a) Accompanied by a valid certificate of compliance or a valid certificate of acceptance issued as required under chapter 70.120 RCW; or (b) exempt, as described in subsection (2) of this section. The certificates must have a date of validation that is within twelve months of the assigned registration renewal date. Certificates for fleet or owner tested diesel vehicles may have a date of validation that is within twelve months of the assigned registration renewal date.

(2) The following motor vehicles are exempt from emission test requirements:

(a) Motor vehicles that are less than five years old or more than twenty-five years old;

(b) Motor vehicles that are a 2009 model year or newer;

(c) Motor vehicles powered exclusively by electricity, propane, compressed natural gas, or liquid petroleum gas;

(d) Motorcycles as defined in RCW 46.04.330 and motor-driven cycles as defined in RCW 46.04.332;

(e) Farm vehicles as defined in RCW 46.04.181;

(f) Street rod vehicles as defined in RCW 46.04.572 and custom vehicles as defined in RCW 46.04.161;

(g) Used vehicles that are offered for sale by a motor vehicle dealer licensed under chapter 46.70 RCW;

(h) Classes of motor vehicles exempted by the director of the department of ecology; and

(i) Hybrid motor vehicles that obtain a rating by the environmental protection agency of at least fifty miles per gallon of gas during city driving. For purposes of this section, a hybrid motor vehicle is one that uses propulsion units powered by both electricity and gas.

(3) The department of ecology shall provide information to motor vehicle owners:

(a) Regarding the boundaries of emission contributing areas and restrictions established under this section that apply to vehicles registered in such areas; and

(b) On the relationship between motor vehicles and air pollution and steps motor vehicle owners should take to reduce motor vehicle related air pollution.

(4) The department of licensing shall:

(a) Notify all registered motor vehicle owners affected by the emission testing program that they must have an emission test to renew their registration;

(b) Adopt rules implementing and enforcing this section, except for subsection (2)(e) of this section, as specified in chapter 34.05 RCW.

(5) A motor vehicle may not be registered, leased, rented, or sold for use in the state, starting with the model year as provided in RCW 70.120A.010, unless the vehicle:

(a) Has seven thousand five hundred miles or more; or

(b)(i) Is consistent with the vehicle emission standards and carbon dioxide equivalent emission standards adopted by the department of ecology; and

(ii) Has a California certification label for all emission standards, and carbon dioxide equivalent emission standards necessary to meet fleet average requirements.

(6) The department of licensing, in consultation with the department of ecology, may adopt rules necessary to implement this section and may provide for reasonable exemptions to these requirements. The department of ecology may exempt public safety vehicles from meeting the standards where the department finds that vehicles necessary to meet the needs of public safety agencies are not otherwise reasonably available.

:iagree:

And why do they owe you an explanation for the delays? You aren't the owner, a business partner, and they don't owe you money. A potential customer, maybe. Yes it would be nice, but who are you to judge what's good enough for the entire community? It sucks for the guys needing CARB certification, but at the same time, there is the competitor option as well. The only thing holding people back from going FI and CARB cert is themselves. Whether they wait for the GTM CARB cert kit or not is entirely up to them.

On the exhaust thing, yes, they'll write you a ticket for having anything other than the stock exhaust...especially in Federal Way. So if you have a cat-back on your car, you're breaking the law. You may get away with it for as long as you own the car, or you can get popped every other week. It just depends on the police officer that sees/hears your car and what part of town you are in. Some of them are haters and other don't care. Drive like a douche and mouth off to the cop, and he'll probably tack it on top of whatever he was going to write you up for...even if he normally didn't care. Also, the more obnoxious the exhaust sounds or looks, the more likely you are to get stopped for having an illegal exhaust.

CARB stands for the California Air Resources Board and is the agency that deals with aftermarket automotive parts among other things. Washington has no such agency. Let me just ask you a quick question. Do you interpret that law to mean that every time you want to register your car in Washington that you have to drive it down to a California smog station to get it certified?

That law basically means that the car has to have one of the stickers under the hood that looks like the one below for California emissions.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/images/fastfac...sions_cert.jpg

That's it. It doesn't require California Executive Order numbers or anything of the sort. However, if you want to interpret it such that you can't do anything to your car, then that is your choice. If I were you, I'd hop onto a local forum and check with other enthusiasts as this thread isn't really intended to be a Q&A on Washington laws.

Don't wanna keep adding to this cluster of a mess but this thread is beyond screwed anyways so why not!

I can't agree with u Firehawk. No one asked them to open up anthread about a potential carb certified kit. They did and pretty much jus forgot about it. You're right, Gtm doesn't owe anyone here anything and its their business and they can run it however they want to. Is that smart business practice? Not at all. There could have been a much better way to handle this situation.

You're 100% correct that they don't owe me any real explanation other than what they are willing to say. But, I agreed to MMC Racing's comment because I feel it would be nice to have a more exact explanation as a potential customer. I didn't take MMC Racing's comment as it's not good enough for the entire community. Just that it wasn't good enough for him/her as a potential customer and agreed to it.
And, with the CARB certification issue. As you can tell from my other post I'm still trying to research if I need CARB certification or not. With regards to the competitor kit as you call it do you know if it's still technically carb legal if getting a custom tune? These are the issues I'm still researching.

Thanks for the heads up! Yes, I was reading that as every time I register my car it had to meet CARB laws (obviously not drive down there to get tested, but not mess with it's current emissions from the factory that were CARB approved I guess). Maybe that's where I was confused with the whole issue. I guess you really hit the nail on the head with that one, thanks again. Also I do live near Federal Way, so if you know the area you probably can appreciate my concerns. My apologies for high jacking this thread with questions about emissions laws. I'll be sure to research this in local forums more as I know this thread isn't really meant for Washington emission laws.

Thread is titled "GTM Performance Engineering 370Z SUPERCHARGER KIT PRESS RELEASE"

There is a thread regarding CARB submission and a CARB request from GTM. Submission and approval as we have learned can be very far apart haha. When there is a CARB approval thread created by GTM for their kits, I'll drink a 6 pack for everyone waiting. I agree that the delays don't look good at all, I can see how people may feel mislead by the updates, and I empathize with them, but I won't feel sorry for them because they are waiting on something that isn't released. Not trying to stir the pot, just trying to throw another perspective at it.

Technically it isn't, but I would just keep the Stillen tune on the side for emissions and run a custom tune any other time. Not sure if they have a way of checking though.

It's always good to have another perspective in there, and thanks for the info on the Stillen tune. As I know this isn't the right thread for that I'll save those questions for another time.

I personally know very little about the steps needed to achieve CARB certification. Would you be willing to share with us what these delays were and how they affected the overall process? I think it may help us to better understand where you're coming from and the challenges that you're facing with regard to this endeavor. This info may help put people's minds at ease.

You presume a lot. I didn't pretend to speak for the community. I'm speaking for myself.

There was no "I" or "me" in your sentence, so yes I did presume, thank you for taking ownership. To be fair on the flipside, there was no "we" or "us" either

IBTL :icon14:

Walk down memory lane..

OMFG why am I here?!?!!? Damn you MMC, why?!?!?!?

I had to click it...