STH Multi-Step Build Plan/Thread

[Spooler]

Originally Posted by SeeThruHead

yeah i was more thinking about cutting the groove into the darton sleeve

That is one way. There are several ways to get the job done. All have their own pitfalls. The issue with sleeves is getting someone who knows what they are doing and that they have the proper CNC's to get it done. Plus, there are assembly challenges that I haven't talked about. Installing sleeves properly is not easy to do. That is why we have seen many failures when it is done.

[Whjaxn17]

I see you've priced some things. I don't know your financial situation, but going from a supercharger to a turbo is a lot of extra expense and hassle. I'd say pick 1 and run that way.

SOHO now has their 2.5 kit fitting with Z1 headers if you went that route vs the PPE set.
Fast Intentions is THE TT kit on the market. If you want a single, BP or SOHO.

As for cams, Jim Wolf has a C1 and C2 set. I've been running the C2s for a couple years. They really wake the car up on the top end. Jim Wolf Cam testing for the VQ37VHR -- Results inside!

Jun also makes cams for the VHR, but those are your only options.

[SeeThruHead]

Originally Posted by Spooler

That is one way. There are several ways to get the job done. All have their own pitfalls. The issue with sleeves is getting someone who knows what they are doing and that they have the proper CNC's to get it done. Plus, there are assembly challenges that I haven't talked about. Installing sleeves properly is not easy to do. That is why we have seen many failures when it is done.

I think I would probably only be trusting Mazworks to do it if i do it.

Originally Posted by Whjaxn17

I see you've priced some things. I don't know your financial situation, but going from a supercharger to a turbo is a lot of extra expense and hassle. I'd say pick 1 and run that way.

SOHO now has their 2.5 kit fitting with Z1 headers if you went that route vs the PPE set.
Fast Intentions is THE TT kit on the market. If you want a single, BP or SOHO.

As for cams, Jim Wolf has a C1 and C2 set. I've been running the C2s for a couple years. They really wake the car up on the top end. Jim Wolf Cam testing for the VQ37VHR -- Results inside!

Jun also makes cams for the VHR, but those are your only options.

Well I think there's going to be quite a lot of time in between these things. I really like planning things in stages, so I have plenty of time to adjust and appreciate each level. I want to stay NA for a while. So I'm going to buy NA components, the next stage that works well for me from that would be a super charger. Since I can have that installed in toronto by Whitehead performance.
I can enjoy that for a while while having mazworks build me a darton sleeved block. Then I can sell the super charger, and na exhaust and drive down to MA-motorsports and have them do the new engine + twin turbo.

Going straight to turbo right away, would require me to save up a ton while only making 270whp. I'd rather step it up in stages. Maybe I'll skipp the supercharger entirely, who knows how the NA build will feel to me?

Maybe the engine will blow up on the supercharger + stock block /shrug I want to plan to change as little at a time as possible. Sure that's going to be a hassle when it comes to having to resell things. The money lost is worth the experience IMO

[Whjaxn17]

Originally Posted by SeeThruHead

I think I would probably only be trusting Mazworks to do it if i do it.




Well I think there's going to be quite a lot of time in between these things. I really like planning things in stages, so I have plenty of time to adjust and appreciate each level. I want to stay NA for a while. So I'm going to buy NA components, the next stage that works well for me from that would be a super charger. Since I can have that installed in toronto by Whitehead performance.
I can enjoy that for a while while having mazworks build me a darton sleeved block. Then I can sell the super charger, and na exhaust and drive down to MA-motorsports and have them do the new engine + twin turbo.

Going straight to turbo right away, would require me to save up a ton while only making 270whp. I'd rather step it up in stages. Maybe I'll skipp the supercharger entirely, who knows how the NA build will feel to me?

Maybe the engine will blow up on the supercharger + stock block /shrug I want to plan to change as little at a time as possible. Sure that's going to be a hassle when it comes to having to resell things. The money lost is worth the experience IMO

If you're comfortable with the down time, waiting on parts, extra expense, and all the other stress and headache that comes with it, then ball out.

Boost is expensive regardless of the route you choose, but many of us have played the NA game before and the $/HP ratio blows. You do have a very short list of NA mods, though, so you're not looking to fall as deep down that hole as I did.

Whatever you decide to do, I wish you the best.

[2011 Nismo#91]

First thanks for taking the time to post all the details of your build and your goals and issues. Most people don't take the time to do that and either get flamed or get bad info.

My recommendations will be to go for the items that have the biggest bang for the buck because of your location and focused on building a good track car that still works on the street but probably won't be a great DD. Your situations is almost exactly like mine, except for the shipping.

First I see Z1 as the Amazon for Nissan Zs, it's one stop shopping but you can almost always get anything they sell there from other places and for less. Zspeed is good too, and don't be afraid to look for things on places like Rockauto too.

( Click to show/hide )

Originally Posted by SeeThruHead

I removed the superficial stuff because it's your car enjoy it.


Stage 0.5: Minor/Minimum Upgrades

• RJM Pedal Assembly (good)
• Coolerworx Short Shifter (very nice but when I tried it on another guys 350, I thought that I could easily miss shift and mess up the trans being too quick, I'd save it for later, stock is fine)
• Stainless braided brake lines (good but inspect them on some regular schedule, while better for brake feel they have a higher chance at failure over time)
• Wavetrac Differential (great choice)
• Z1 370z Diff upgrade kit (I'd say no. A simple Nismo finned diff cover will work just fine, save the money and get a Whiteline bushing.)
• Bell Raceworks Diff Brace (sure why not)
• Z1 370z Alu Subframe Bushing collars (I got solid spl ones)

Stage 1.1: Handling

• Upgraded sway bars (Hotchkiss full stiff upfront, you can run without a rear or keep the stock or Hotchkiss on lightest because it's still a street car)
• Hotchkis Heavy Duty Billet Sway bar bushing brackets (the ones it come with are sufficent)
  
• SPL rear sway bar end links
• SPL Billet rear camber arms
• SPL Billet rear toe arms
• SPL Titanium Rear Traction Links
• SPL Front sway bar end links
• SPL Front upper control arms
• SPL Eccentric lockout kit
  (All these items together have a roughly the same impact as they sway bar upgrade, they are not bad but the bang for the buck isn't there imo.)
  
• Feal Coilovers 441+ (Swift springs, extended damper adjust)(road race version) (I'm sure they're fine, but I'd prefer KWV3s in retrospect they JRZs are just too much $ for my level, get a shock dyno on what ever you get. Stiff springs will make regular driving more painful but will significantly help you on the track. It's a difficult balancing act.) Read this
  
  
  ( Click to show/hide )

  "Let me make this as clear as I possibly can: THE ADJUSTERS ON YOUR SHOCKS ALMOST CERTAINLY DO NOT DO WHAT YOU THINK THEY DO. Unless you have something high-end, like a Penske, and you've taken the time to clock the adjuster window on the shock dyno, the knobs on your shocks cannot be trusted to work. Most shocks of the same model DO NOT match each other on the same adjuster setting, and each click DOES NOT make the same change in force. Most shocks make very large changes per click near the "full hard" setting and make very little to no change near the "full soft" setting."
  

Stage 1.2: NA Power (GOAL: 345WHP)

• Z1 Intakes
• PPE Engineering Long tube headers ($1660USD) (Black coating, spike)
• FI TDX catback with carbon fiber mufflers, 18inch resonators, high flow cats
• Ecutek tune
  (All good here, millions of different opinions here but test pipes and tune are the biggest bang for the buck, check out Garageline for a cheaper catback that's still decent)

Stage 1.3: Cooling

• Mishimoto Radiator (Stick with OEM, its good enough, get silicone hoses if you want to spend some $, I went with the ConceptZ kit, seemed the most comprehensive)
• z1 motorsports oil cooler kit (you can get a Setrab cooler and thermostatic sandwich from a lot of places, just get 34 rows the rest is just hose. Also a metal block off plate for winter, mine was just Velcro'd on the edges of the cooler and an aluminum rectangle.
• CJM active baffle oil pan (great choice)
• Z1 Power steering cooler upgrade (Same as the oil cooler, you don't need much but you do need something)

Stage 1.4: Wheels

• Enkei RPF1 SPL 10.5 inch square (great)
• 285/35R18 Mich PS4S Square (put a decent set of A/S on your base wheels and go with RE71Rs or R888R size seems fine, million opinions there but feel it out over time, it's a fine start)

Stage 1.5: Brakes

• Stoptech or AP racing BBK (Good choices, need to get rid of those base sets, sport ones would be a fine lower cost alternative, avoid all the money pit rotor options and stick with simple.)

Stage 1.6: Rigidity/Other stuff

• Soul performance Front Fender Braces
• Soul performance 4 Point front d-brace
• Soul performance Rear lower M Brace (maybe?)
• Soul performance Rear Tie Bar
• Z1 undershroud
  (meh, money pit, where the F*#k is your safety equipment, spend $ there)

Stage 1.7: Aero/Cosmetics

• INSG+1 N-SPEC Ver.NISMO body kit (Just NO!)
• INGS+1 Power Wing (NO!)
  370z Rocket Nose Splitters or APR.
  APR or Aeromotions wing.
  Look into vinyl wraps instead of paint. Cheaper and removable.
  NA imo you need more front downforce then rear, but also I always had a NismoV1 wing.

Stage 2.0: Fuel

• Radium Surge pump setup. (No, you need a good proven fuel starve fix, CJM Road Race would be best)
• CJM billet fuel rails (No, not necessary)
• CJM alu top hat for sender pump (Wont hurt, top hats can break even under street driving)

Stage 2.1: Booooooooost (Goal 550WHP)

• (If your going to boost leave the intake and headers alone, just go with drop ins and test pipes. It's maybe a 10whp difference and saves lots of money)
• OSG triple disk clutch (Sure but it's $, no CSC replacement listed? Get the Zspeed Elimination kit imo. Take to Joe at Zspeed and your end power goals and drivability he'll find you want works best.
• Topgunz ACE super charger kit / its possible i may skip this and go straight to TT (yeah up to you, you will constantly be chasing heat issues at the track with any option.)
• Retune

Stage 2.2: (Stage 0 get safety gear!!!!!!)
Gloves, Extinguisher, Shoes, Seats, Good Harness bar, Harness & Hans. RPM Roll bar is nice or get one fabricated in place of harness bar; make sure they place that fabs it is familiar with SCCA and NASA rules.

Stage 3: CAMS??? Pointless if your going to some day go FI.

[Hotrodz]

Originally Posted by SeeThruHead

Barrels of fuel is an impossibility as I essentially live in and apartment with no storage. Octane booster is really the only option. I can’t find any flex fuel systems that will work on anything but ethanol however. Though I only did a quick search. It really must be automated for a street car imo. And since we have no ethanol I’m a bit at a loss for how I can increase octane and have the car respond properly. Welcoming any and all ideas.

As for building the engine. That will be a post initial boost endeavour. I will stay at low 500s probably for a while, learning the car. The when the time has come to increase horsepower (and I’ve acquired a second vehicle) the car will hopefully make its way to mazworks. Or I’ll do what spoiler did and build a secondary engine.

I have been using Boostane in my Miata and will use it in my Z as well. Seb from Specialty Z uses it in his with both pump gas and ethanol. It works very well!

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[2011 Nismo#91]

Personally I would avoid off the shelf boosters (too expensive) and ethanol (if it isn't readily available). If you really really want to raise the Octane use Toluene added to Gasoline. Used for decades, cheap, and available anywhere that sells paint. It's ~114 AKI and is less then 150 for 5 gallons.

[Hotrodz]

Originally Posted by 2011 Nismo#91

Personally I would avoid off the shelf boosters (too expensive) and ethanol (if it isn't readily available). If you really really want to raise the Octane use Toluene added to Gasoline. Used for decades, cheap, and available anywhere that sells paint. It's ~114 AKI and is less then 150 for 5 gallons.

It is all about what you are comfortable with. I have been using it for about a year now with good results. Seb has been recommending it to his clients and tuning their cars on it with no problems for a couple of years that I know of. As far as expense it is not as expensive as buying race fuel or any race ethanol at $400 plus per barrel. The technology on quality octane boosters has improved significantly. I wouldn't trust any off the shelf brand as I have no problem with Boostane and I have heard no issues with VP version as well.

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[SeeThruHead]

Originally Posted by 2011 Nismo#91

Personally I would avoid off the shelf boosters (too expensive) and ethanol (if it isn't readily available). If you really really want to raise the Octane use Toluene added to Gasoline. Used for decades, cheap, and available anywhere that sells paint. It's ~114 AKI and is less then 150 for 5 gallons.

Yep I have been reading exactly about this. Threads like this

I haven't done my research yet about flex fuel systems but from what I gather it won't work with non ethanol. So I would need a 94 map and a higher octane map, and have to be diligent in adding the booster and only using the map when I have done so. Probably for track days only.

[SeeThruHead]

Originally Posted by 2011 Nismo#91

First thanks for taking the time to post all the details of your build and your goals and issues. Most people don't take the time to do that and either get flamed or get bad info.

My recommendations will be to go for the items that have the biggest bang for the buck because of your location and focused on building a good track car that still works on the street but probably won't be a great DD. Your situations is almost exactly like mine, except for the shipping.

First I see Z1 as the Amazon for Nissan Zs, it's one stop shopping but you can almost always get anything they sell there from other places and for less. Zspeed is good too, and don't be afraid to look for things on places like Rockauto too.

I have lots of work to do to find better deals. I'm going to be putting out feelers on the z34 canada facebook for better prices for stuff. Also there appears to be people selling things like SPL cheaper than z1. Z1 is fantastically convenient, but UPS brokerage fees are extortionary. And I need to learn how to declare my own imports to avoid the fees.

I also will likely drive down to the states to buy some of these stages all at once. Avoiding customs, tax and shipping. And I will get a nice road trip.
(I'm thinking stuff like the body kit roll cage from nextlevelperf, could all be installed in the US and I can just drive the car back to ontario, with no one the wiser )

[Chuck33079]

Originally Posted by SeeThruHead

There's also to consider: This is my only car (tho I don't have to drive for work/social/groceries) I have no garage/tools/driveway. I've never worked on a car before (or owned one)

Then everything past bolt ons is over your ceiling right now. You will always be tinkering and maintaining a car once you go with any kind of aftermarket forced induction. You need to know what to do to keep it on the road, how to do it and own the tools and workspace required.

Also, aftermarket forced induction on a daily driver is a poor choice. I did it for years, but it is not the best way to do things. Even a reliable boosted Z will be down from time to time for parts, etc.

Honestly, if this is your first car the absolute worst thing I can think of is you having 500+ whp in a short wheelbase vehicle with traction problems.

[Hotrodz]

Originally Posted by SeeThruHead

Yep I have been reading exactly about this. Threads like this



I haven't done my research yet about flex fuel systems but from what I gather it won't work with non ethanol. So I would need a 94 map and a higher octane map, and have to be diligent in adding the booster and only using the map when I have done so. Probably for track days only.

We just run it all the time in the Miata, but we only really track the Miata so it's not a big deal and the Miata gets great fuel economy. The two of us can run a full day, eight sessions on about 14 gallons of gas! I do that in just over two sessions on e90 with the Z lol.

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[Hotrodz]

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

Then everything past bolt ons is over your ceiling right now. You will always be tinkering and maintaining a car once you go with any kind of aftermarket forced induction. You need to know what to do to keep it on the road, how to do it and own the tools and workspace required.



Also, aftermarket forced induction on a daily driver is a poor choice. I did it for years, but it is not the best way to do things. Even a reliable boosted Z will be down from time to time for parts, etc.



Honestly, if this is your first car the absolute worst thing I can think of is you having 500+ whp in a short wheelbase vehicle with traction problems.

^^^ This all day long. I would consider my first go around as having been reliable and it was in and out of the shop for various issues. Some small and some not so. Mine was basically the first production Fast Intentions TT kit to hit the street after the prototype kit. Chuck was in the game way before me and he shared his ups and downs and his decision to get a reliable daily driver. Fortunately for me the Z is a second car for me. Also, you should have the finances to deal with high performance issues. When you move to doing high performance mods your Z becomes a BOAT which stands for Bring On Another Thousand and that is for small repairs.

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[SeeThruHead]

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

Then everything past bolt ons is over your ceiling right now. You will always be tinkering and maintaining a car once you go with any kind of aftermarket forced induction. You need to know what to do to keep it on the road, how to do it and own the tools and workspace required.

Also, aftermarket forced induction on a daily driver is a poor choice. I did it for years, but it is not the best way to do things. Even a reliable boosted Z will be down from time to time for parts, etc.

Honestly, if this is your first car the absolute worst thing I can think of is you having 500+ whp in a short wheelbase vehicle with traction problems.

hahah yes these are my thoughts exactly.

Now when you say daily driver this is not that. I don't have a need to drive anywhere, for any reason. Once my office opens up I will never drive my car to work. I work 5km away from where I live and usually ride either my bicycle, my onewheel, or my motorcycle. I could total this car and not buy a replacement, and I would have zero issues. I do not need this car at all, it's purely a toy. That being said, I'm not looking to total it or make it undriveable.

I really want to learn how to drive and will stay NA for a while. The reason why everything is in stages is so I can learn to deal with more horsepower slowly over time. I will be doing lots of driver training (already done one day of training at track.) Going to try and do 2 3 day training course this coming spring/summer. Also the stages will allow me to get to know the car better and shake down every stage properly, and overcome the maintenance issues that come up.

The other thing to realize is that I have no intention of ever moving to a rural area. Hence I will never have a garage. That's just the reality of living in Toronto. I will not let that stop me from doing FI on this car though. I am prepared for the shop fees. And i'm prepared to buy a floor jack and tools. But I probably will never have a garage or a driveway (for at least 5 years) so anything more than that is out of the picture.

[Chuck33079]

Originally Posted by SeeThruHead

But I probably will never have a garage or a driver in the next 5 years so anything more than that is out of the picture.

Then you need to sit down and scale back your goals. Right now your plan ends in you selling a broken car for pennies on the dollar.