Internals for 700whp?
 

I have dreams of forced induction, twin turbo on my Z. My goal is 650+ in the end

So, what are the weakest links in the VQ37VHR? What needs to be upgraded to relatively safely push lots of power?

Rods? Crank?

Any recommendation on parts?

Short answer: You'll have to address head gasket lift. Long answer: Read Spooler's thread.

Weakest link. Headgaskets! And head gaskets did we mention head lift. I went with mazworx sleeved and step deck route

If you "only" want to push 650whp, i dont know if its worth it to go the mazworx route. No clue what Spooler paid but id be surprised if its anything below 15-20k.

I run 602 whp on E85 with stock block at 13 psi. Its not gonna last forever, but a good 15-25k miles is very much feasible.

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Well I'm hoping the car still runs after the car is paid off, and that means upwards of 80k miles, so if reinforcing parts makes it more feasible, then I want to. I know it won't last forever, especially when you are multiplying the original power output, but I'd like to reduce the risk of destroying the engine on a hard pull on a thursday evening.

Eventually I'll have a new daily, and I think the day I have a second car is the day I put the order for the snails

I’m running stock internals at 14 psi 612hp/511tq with 100% methanol injection since 2016 50k miles no issues

I'm not seeing anything for the 370z on mazworx website, was his stuff custom made?

And from what I understand of this head lift issue, being fairly new to modding in general, is that the boost pressure finds its way past the head gasket and damages it, is that correct?

If I had to guess, this has to do with the fact that there appears to be 8 mounting points on the head and gasket right, so if you boost too high, there are areas where there isn't enough clamping force in between the bolts to seal the pressurized air. Is the head gasket just too thin? maybe on the metal itself, or on the rubber seals?

What kind of clearance issues would you encounter if the head gasket were thicker?

Yes. Custom. There's not enough demand for them to put a kit on their website. Call them and talk to them and they'll get it done.

It's the gap between the studs that is the problem. Thicker gasket ain't gonna do it.

Makes sense. Just this conversation alone I have learned a lot about what this engine, or any engine needs for that matter.

At first I didn't understand what head lift actually meant, but now I get it.

So the top end of this engine is its weak point with its head that only has 8 mounting points to hold the entire head onto the engine. The gaps are too spaced apart which allows it to flex under pressure. To me that actually does make the weak point the block itself since the head was designed to attach to the block.

This aluminum engine head can't stay rigid against the top of the engine with only 8 mount points. A stronger head with its current mounts seems like it could only do so much.

Man I have ideas that could turn the Z into a Koenigsegg. Think freevalve. Question is, do I have the budget to make it happen

Read the whole thing.

http://www.the370z.com/forced-induct...ports-212.html

Can we just sticky this in the FI section already?

I don't know if it is sticky material. Sometimes I wish it would get deleted.

If you have to ask, the answer is "No."

You will need about 50 to 60k to get started. If you want to shotgun it and do everything all at once, 75 to 90k. The down side is it will take about 1 1/2 years at best at a good shop. You can
go to a cheap shop and they can bubble gum weld you up something on the cheap with ching chang charley parts that will Nickle and Dime you to death. Your choice.

If you want to see how bad it can get if you don't listen, read this thread. He sold the car and lost his butt.

http://www.the370z.com/forced-induct...harger-46.html

700whp is debatably within the realm of stock engine reliability, depending on how much you actually use it at that power and what you used it for. In the typical Z project setup, 700whp usually cannot be put to the pavement. So even after making that on the dyno, you wont generally replicate that type of load unless doing 4th gear + pulls.

IMHO, I would skip the engine build. Too much trouble and expense, too much room for error. I would take all the money I save and just do an all-premium stock engine setup. Maybe grab a backup low miles stock engine to keep in the corner of the garage, ready and waiting for a weekend swap should the original engine ever fail. Set it up to run 600whp daily (which will already roast the tires 99% of the time you try it below 60mph), and have a 675-700whp high power mode for occasional use when it counts.

When your goal is balancing on the tipping point like that, in my opinion, it makes a lot more sense to just dial it back a tiny bit and spare yourself a TON of money and drama over the built engine lifestyle.

After all the chit I have been through I would say that is a good plan of attack. When you build the motor you want more and down the rabbit hole you go. I enjoyed 718hp daily. It was fun. 600whp was boring to me. Maybe I am just a nut.

:iagree::iagree::iagree: I have another in waiting and I will not be building it like I have done with my current motor if it goes bang. I don't plan on running my built motor more than 600 90% of the time. I can tell you from my experience that 550 is pretty damn fast on a circuit track. I only used that power a couple of times because that was to much for my talent level at the time. Hence on the road I dialed it back as well after figuring out that I was as good a driver as I thought I was.:eek:

I feel like we need a sticky thread in FI that just delivers the following "basic boosted menu"
I feel like if people understood these basics going in, we'd see a lot more 500whp builds.

Your numbers are way off.

LOL probably right. Feel free to edit =)

Not sure I want to do that. I have given hints here and there. That's about all I am willing to do for now. I didn't feel comfortable doing that.

ftfy

I still feel the 10k/500whp/last a long time combo is very eh.. ambitious. Taking you buy new parts and start off with a stock vehicle, including supporting mods such as clutch, return fuel system with pump and injectors, tuning software, exhaust, etc. Id say its closer to 15k, or the 10k option is "last a short time".

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Yeah this feels more correct to me too.




Working off the assumption that for 500whp the full RFS is not needed, but this certainly could be debated. I think the bias was toward requiring it about 3-4 years ago, but it looks like the community has gotten a lot better at tuning these cars and it has become less necessary. I have run for a few years now with this type of build and no RFS, but I am only one sample...and also the resident FI cheapskate around here.

Very ambitious. I did it for 10.5k, but that was with a lot of buying and selling used parts to supplement it. Would have been 24k worth if I did it all new.

Yeah you guys might be right. I did it for around $8.5k IIRC but had some lucky circumstances. I think a BP Single turn-key, Ecutek tune, and Z1 clutch come in right around $10k no? Haven't kept up with pricing and may be leaving something out...

I have people on Facebook telling me a 1000whp on a open deck fully blueprinted motors will be fine

Well there you go! You're good then. Get that shìt done and start :driving:

Here are my thoughts.

Jayhovah's Forcedhaus and Boostgarten Menu

$18k & 2 weeks - 500whp. Might last a long time.

$25k+ & 16 weeks - 600whp. Might last a long time.

$60k+ & 1 1/2 yr - 800whp. Won't last.

$90k+ & 1 1/2 year - 800whp. Might last.

Splurge and it goes up.

That's a joke. We all know better than that.

Chit isn't cheap. Mess up and blow a motor the cost goes up considerably.

When I did the FI TT kit seven years ago, it cost me $17k with all associated mods! Double that and then add in the cost of the kit and you will be in the park to make 800 whp! Ask me how I know!!!

They are talking about the Jorge Uniqemotorsports bubble gum welded up turbo car Dirtbag. It's a piece of chit low compression 8.5 to 9:1 engine extra large turbo (Who knows who made it GT4508) with no low end or midrange at all. The drivability is horrible. Dyno was done on a hub dyno which reads at least 50hp higher than a dynojet. That's the clout seekers region.

You are forgetting about some of the stuff you have and that is needed for such like wheels and tires, Diff upgrade, Diff mount upgrades, motor mount upgrades, suspension upgrades, etc. LOL Remember, I started adding mine up and stopped. It was a holey chit moment. Never will I do that again.

What are you talking about? :icon14:

You don't need any of that. It helps but not required :rolleyes:

The hijacked version of this thread is a lot more useful than the OP.

If you don't have it the car will want to kill you. So that is necessary in my book.

Give 500-600HP a try before going crazy. The weakest point sometime is how you drive and maintain the Z. Hell you have non-force induction Z's that blow up sometimes. I'm sitting at 520 and it's a blast to drive.

Don't talk about it, I have as much money in drive train and suspension than some have into their turbo build, but that is how we roll. My car is purposed built and way over the top!:tup: