Fast Intentions Stage 2 TT build by MA-Motorsports.

Elmo370z · 11-19-2021, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Squeeze

Your concept of demand is totally off most people just aren't going to spend the money on a stand alone. Now I get it you have a passion for them using SOHO as and example would not create the demand you think it will. First off demand is dictated by the customer not shops like your example above. Shops invest money in cars because there is a demand in the aftermarket to modify a certain car/platform not the other way around. As someone pointed out to you before this is not the 90's where a stand alone is needed to go fast. GTR's Mustangs corvettes the new supra are cars that can run 8's on the factory computers. What do all these cars have in common? Customers that pay for parts to go fast this creates demand for multiple shops and manufacturers to make parts.

Now if SOHO came out with what you stated yes there would be people that would jump all over it. That however would not create the kind of buzz like some of the other platforms.

My concept of demand is for people who actually race to win, not weekend and holiday warriors. Shops demonstrate what can be done, if it’s successful, that brings in customers wanting the same thing. The demand is there and soho is taking full advantage of that. You can make 2000hp on a stock Ecu nowadays, just like you can make 1200hp on uprev why do Ecu tek. You’re not getting what I’m throwing down, it’s not about making power to switch to a stand-alone. Stock simply can’t do what a stand-alone can do when it comes to racing and keeping these motor running at peak efficiency. Again not talking about street cars wanting to do roll racing, and still want to drive it on hot summer days with ac and all the creature comforts. All the new cars you mentioned can probably run 7’s on a factory Ecu, it not like are running multiple piggybacks to truck the computer, Emilia proved when she went 9’s. Watch and consistent and fast these cars will be on stand alones. What all these cars have is you’re right customers willing to spend money, not squabbling over what intake and exhaust combo will net me 350whp for the cheapest price or who got the hook up. Those people are adults with money not kids spending life savings on a 10,000 turbo kit wanting to make 800whp on 750 injectors and no return system.

Mr.Squeeze · 11-19-2021, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elmo370z

My concept of demand is for people who actually race to win, not weekend and holiday warriors. Shops demonstrate what can be done, if it’s successful, that brings in customers wanting the same thing. The demand is there and soho is taking full advantage of that. You can make 2000hp on a stock Ecu nowadays, just like you can make 1200hp on uprev why do Ecu tek. You’re not getting what I’m throwing down, it’s not about making power to switch to a stand-alone. Stock simply can’t do what a stand-alone can do when it comes to racing and keeping these motor running at peak efficiency. Again not talking about street cars wanting to do roll racing, and still want to drive it on hot summer days with ac and all the creature comforts. All the new cars you mentioned can probably run 7’s on a factory Ecu, it not like are running multiple piggybacks to truck the computer, Emilia proved when she went 9’s. Watch and consistent and fast these cars will be on stand alones. What all these cars have is you’re right customers willing to spend money, not squabbling over what intake and exhaust combo will net me 350whp for the cheapest price or who got the hook up. Those people are adults with money not kids spending life savings on a 10,000 turbo kit wanting to make 800whp on 750 injectors and no return system.

I see you really think the demand is there because of SOHO. There the only shop that has been willing to spend the money and R&D it takes to make this platform go fast that's awesome and there the best. Now I think started out around 2012ish , do you really think it takes 8 years go create demand for customers. I would be willing to bet they do what they do because they have a passion for these z cars. You don't see anyone else like AMS ETS Cicio performance T1 racing Boost logic etc doing anything with the Z34. There's a reason for that and that's because there enough customers that create the type of demand for these companies to invest in.

Now I'm not trying to argue with you that a stock ECU is better than a stand alone. I agree that a stock computer cant do what a true stand alone can do my only point was most people don't want to spend the cash on a stand alone ecu and that there are plenty of cars not using them. I even want to switch to one my self eventually hell I even held a Haltech ECU in my hand back at the P.R.I show in Orlando Florida in 2012 that was suppose to come out. The thing these days roll racing is more popular than drag racing that's just a fact people rather have there creature comforts than a all out race car.

Elmo370z · 11-19-2021, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Squeeze

I see you really think the demand is there because of SOHO. There the only shop that has been willing to spend the money and R&D it takes to make this platform go fast that's awesome and there the best. Now I think started out around 2012ish , do you really think it takes 8 years go create demand for customers. I would be willing to bet they do what they do because they have a passion for these z cars. You don't see anyone else like AMS ETS Cicio performance T1 racing Boost logic etc doing anything with the Z34. There's a reason for that and that's because there enough customers that create the type of demand for these companies to invest in.

Now I'm not trying to argue with you that a stock ECU is better than a stand alone. I agree that a stock computer cant do what a true stand alone can do my only point was most people don't want to spend the cash on a stand alone ecu and that there are plenty of cars not using them. I even want to switch to one my self eventually hell I even held a Haltech ECU in my hand back at the P.R.I show in Orlando Florida in 2012 that was suppose to come out. The thing these days roll racing is more popular than drag racing that's just a fact people rather have there creature comforts than a all out race car.

Demand isn’t there because of soho, demand is there because you still see people taking th cars to the drag, roll
Racing, road racing, soho is Perpetuating the platform into new heights. , because those big shops with customer left the z34 when the gtr came around. Because the platform ia filled with kids. I’d leave to if I had the talent to draw customers in willing to drop 100k in a blink of an eye. Demand isn’t there because information is filled with clutter, you don’t need it. Most don’t even known that we even have a plug n play. 2012 haltech didn’t have a stand-alone that controlled the vvel. Or both Tb’s. Roll racing no near as popular as drag racing. People like doing because it doesn’t require as much skills or time to be good at it, doesn’t break parts as easy.

Mr.Squeeze · 11-19-2021, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elmo370z

Demand isn’t there because of soho, demand is there because you still see people taking th cars to the drag, roll
Racing, road racing, soho is Perpetuating the platform into new heights. , because those big shops with customer left the z34 when the gtr came around. Because the platform ia filled with kids. I’d leave to if I had the talent to draw customers in willing to drop 100k in a blink of an eye. Demand isn’t there because information is filled with clutter, you don’t need it. Most don’t even known that we even have a plug n play. 2012 haltech didn’t have a stand-alone that controlled the vvel. Or both Tb’s. Roll racing no near as popular as drag racing. People like doing because it doesn’t require as much skills or time to be good at it, doesn’t break parts as easy.

Soho is not the reason why demand isn't there. Now to say people are out drag racing and roll racing z there are only a handful that show up and race these cars at any track. Saying that the GTR killed the Z is not true that car came out in 2008 and the Z in 2009. The VQ killed the Z they have been lifting heads since 2003. This drove customers away from the VQ platform as well as companies. Did you own any VQ back in 2009 when this car came out
or any VQ. I can tell you this forum alone was way more active back then there were a lot more Knowledgeable people around back then and way more customers.

Now as far as Haltech goes when I saw it at PRI show it was suppose to be a full stand alone that's what I was told at the time and they game out with what you just showed above.

Elmo370z · 11-19-2021, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Squeeze

Soho is not the reason why demand isn't there. Now to say people are out drag racing and roll racing z there are only a handful that show up and race these cars at any track. Saying that the GTR killed the Z is not true that car came out in 2008 and the Z in 2009. The VQ killed the Z they have been lifting heads since 2003. This drove customers away from the VQ platform as well as companies. Did you own any VQ back in 2009 when this car came out
or any VQ. I can tell you this forum alone was way more active back then there were a lot more Knowledgeable people around back then and way more customers.

Now as far as Haltech goes when I saw it at PRI show it was suppose to be a full stand alone that's what I was told at the time and they game out with what you just showed above.

I had one shortly after. It’s a weak cast design. And the gtr did kill the VQ. It was far superior in all ways, transmission, block, engine, and Ecu.

FL 4Motion · 11-21-2021, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elmo370z

I had one shortly after. It’s a weak cast design. And the gtr did kill the VQ. It was far superior in all ways, transmission, block, engine, and Ecu.

I don’t know about nowadays with older used gtr’s, but during the first few years of its release, most gtr owners were buying down, not buying up to get the gtr, they were curious about all the hype.

Since the majority of these r35 owners were coming from vettes, Porsches, even adding to Ferrari and Lamborghini stables, there was lots of real $$ flying around for a car that came factory TT’d with for the time otherworldly handling, platform etc.

Most shops saw an opportunity to make real money from folks with deep pockets with many more higher end builds on the gtr platform and the return on investment was/is bigger. I’m mean that’s just Econ 101 principles at work.

With enough time and money anything is possible. The z34 development is way further along than I could have ever imagined 8-10 years ago. At that elite top 5% build level there are better platforms for the money but you can make that argument about almost any car.

Speaking strictly for myself, I only provide a contrarian/devil’s advocate pov on here periodically bc I consider spooler to be a forum friend. A real friend will tell you their honest opinion not just be a yes man or egg you on for entertainment.

Also, the best way to reach a good decision on almost anything important is to always try and see the problem from all angles including the ones you don’t want to hear or like, it’ll help (spooler in this case) have the best chance of not missing something.

Oh, and I like to give him a bit of a good natured hard time once in a while.

Mr.Squeeze · 11-21-2021, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FL 4Motion

I don’t know about nowadays with older used gtr’s, but during the first few years of its release, most gtr owners were buying down, not buying up to get the gtr, they were curious about all the hype.

Since the majority of these r35 owners were coming from vettes, Porsches, even adding to Ferrari and Lamborghini stables, there was lots of real $$ flying around for a car that came factory TT’d with for the time otherworldly handling, platform etc.

Most shops saw an opportunity to make real money from folks with deep pockets with many more higher end builds on the gtr platform and the return on investment was/is bigger. I’m mean that’s just Econ 101 principles at work.

Exactly 100% correct considering you could get a new GTR back then when it first came out for 70k. That is what created the demand for all these shops and aftermarket companies jump on it. The development of the platform benefited greatly from this now the base price for a new GTR is over 110k MSRP. The car is no longer the bargain it used to be it never killed the Z34 development.

Elmo370z · 11-21-2021, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FL 4Motion

I don’t know about nowadays with older used gtr’s, but during the first few years of its release, most gtr owners were buying down, not buying up to get the gtr, they were curious about all the hype.

Since the majority of these r35 owners were coming from vettes, Porsches, even adding to Ferrari and Lamborghini stables, there was lots of real $$ flying around for a car that came factory TT’d with for the time otherworldly handling, platform etc.

Most shops saw an opportunity to make real money from folks with deep pockets with many more higher end builds on the gtr platform and the return on investment was/is bigger. I’m mean that’s just Econ 101 principles at work.

With enough time and money anything is possible. The z34 development is way further along than I could have ever imagined 8-10 years ago. At that elite top 5% build level there are better platforms for the money but you can make that argument about almost any car.

Speaking strictly for myself, I only provide a contrarian/devil’s advocate pov on here periodically bc I consider spooler to be a forum friend. A real friend will tell you their honest opinion not just be a yes man or egg you on for entertainment.

Also, the best way to reach a good decision on almost anything important is to always try and see the problem from all angles including the ones you don’t want to hear or like, it’ll help (spooler in this case) have the best chance of not missing something.

Oh, and I like to give him a bit of a good natured hard time once in a while.

Those lambo, Ferrari owners is what drives the aftermarket to throw money into development of a platform. We don’t have that crazy Honda fan base that will throw child support money into a build while there babies are running around in dirty diapers. Z34 development pretty much dead in the water. Soho is the only company pushing the platform to hold big power. Facts you still have a huge majority of the community thinking an open deck block and head studs will hold anything 800whp is proof.

Elmo370z · 11-19-2021, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Squeeze

Soho is not the reason why demand isn't there. Now to say people are out drag racing and roll racing z there are only a handful that show up and race these cars at any track. Saying that the GTR killed the Z is not true that car came out in 2008 and the Z in 2009. The VQ killed the Z they have been lifting heads since 2003. This drove customers away from the VQ platform as well as companies. Did you own any VQ back in 2009 when this car came out
or any VQ. I can tell you this forum alone was way more active back then there were a lot more Knowledgeable people around back then and way more customers.

Now as far as Haltech goes when I saw it at PRI show it was suppose to be a full stand alone that's what I was told at the time and they game out with what you just showed above.

The copper HG and hoops helps contains the combustion of the the head flexes and the cylinder move a little oreventing coolant from
Pushing out. It took many revisions to get this correct.

DrBacon · 11-19-2021, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elmo370z

The copper HG and hoops helps contains the combustion of the the head flexes and the cylinder move a little oreventing coolant from
Pushing out. It took many revisions to get this correct.

My only issue with soho is it's clear they only really care about themselves and not the VQ community as a whole. I could be totally wrong but I have a strong feeling if you were to contact them and try to buy just that copper headgasket they'd probably tell you to piss off (assuming you already have the hoops, which you can do without soho). And honestly I can't blame them, from a business perspective it makes sense. They did the R&D and obviously want people to go through them for engine builds and pay the soho premium. Ends up being quite the monopoly as there is literally no one else developing this platform. The lack of competition between companies are what drives the costs through the roof.

Spooler · 11-19-2021, 06:59 PM

Enjoy, this guy get's it. He is just on a different platform. The struggle is real.

George@SOHO · 11-20-2021, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrBacon

My only issue with soho is it's clear they only really care about themselves and not the VQ community as a whole. I could be totally wrong but I have a strong feeling if you were to contact them and try to buy just that copper headgasket they'd probably tell you to piss off (assuming you already have the hoops, which you can do without soho). And honestly I can't blame them, from a business perspective it makes sense. They did the R&D and obviously want people to go through them for engine builds and pay the soho premium. Ends up being quite the monopoly as there is literally no one else developing this platform. The lack of competition between companies are what drives the costs through the roof.

If we did not care about the community we would not be developing anything for the VHR or sharing our information. And yes, you would be correct as we do not sell "just the gaskets". The whole top hoop system has to be 100% correct in machining. Do you have the correct hoop size? receiver groove depth? top hoop size and width? If any of this is wrong or even the top hoop groove and receiver groove are misaligned even the slightest the system will not work. So if I sell you gaskets and the machining is wrong, guess what you will still lift the heads and you will be pretty upset.

The "excess" of cost is due to the extra large amount of new and preinstalled components and services provided on top of your average "long block". We stand behind our work and will always stand behind it.

If you have any questions you can call or email me whenever you would like.

Spooler · 11-20-2021, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skrill

Soho is just a copy and paste, they copied switch back racing turbo kit, topgunzkit, and now they wanna do vr30 kit even tho it’s all labor and btw I’m the first one to do vr30 transmission swap in G37. But now it’s my turn, I was able to get fuel hoop from tkm without going though soho (so Soho lied about having a contract with TKM) and for copper headgasket it’s 50 thousand of an inch and you can literally order it frok clark, so I copied their work lol and hey btw it was TKM design noy Soho my Ig is Adel_taw hmu if you want help getting copper gasket

Is this you?????

Elmo370z · 11-19-2021, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Squeeze

I see you really think the demand is there because of SOHO. There the only shop that has been willing to spend the money and R&D it takes to make this platform go fast that's awesome and there the best. Now I think started out around 2012ish , do you really think it takes 8 years go create demand for customers. I would be willing to bet they do what they do because they have a passion for these z cars. You don't see anyone else like AMS ETS Cicio performance T1 racing Boost logic etc doing anything with the Z34. There's a reason for that and that's because there enough customers that create the type of demand for these companies to invest in.

Now I'm not trying to argue with you that a stock ECU is better than a stand alone. I agree that a stock computer cant do what a true stand alone can do my only point was most people don't want to spend the cash on a stand alone ecu and that there are plenty of cars not using them. I even want to switch to one my self eventually hell I even held a Haltech ECU in my hand back at the P.R.I show in Orlando Florida in 2012 that was suppose to come out. The thing these days roll racing is more popular than drag racing that's just a fact people rather have there creature comforts than a all out race car.

Plus the VQ block sucks at holding big power extended abuse. Time will tell
If soho or the new mazworx design will hold. If the ej22 crowd figured it out I’m sure companies will do the same for the VQ.

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11-19-2021, 06:59 PM	#11 (permalink)
Spooler A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Ga Posts: 13,999 Drives: 2013 Nismo 370z Rep Power: 2684392	Enjoy, this guy get's it. He is just on a different platform. The struggle is real.