Topgunz full supercharger kits!!

Senna-F1 · 02-22-2019, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NorthStyle

So does this make more power, or just add unnecessary parts for aesthetics?

Not sure which parts you are referring to. I’m just interested in the air filter relocation. Here is a link to someone who did something similar with a 3-D printer but hacked away a lot more at the radiator support. The one above just uses the existing hole although it too may have been enlarged. Topz mentioned the 3D printed version would pick up some horsepower for sure. How much is not known, and probably becomes more useful as you approach the 550 to 600 power levels. SOHO seems to only publish dyno sheets of air to air supercharger kits that use a turbo guard. Why? There is some benefit but even they are saying they don’t know how much. Personally I find it strange, that a reputable shop would remove an air filter with no idea of the benefits of doing so.

Topgunz - air to air upgrade

redondoaveb · 02-22-2019, 06:20 PM

Here are pictures of the turbo guard and ngr screens that I supplied Specialty Z for dyno testing. You can see the results on the second page. It was a drastic drop just with screen size.
https://www.instagram.com/p/Btl8qP9n...d=w0tkhn53aegr

bullitt5897 · 02-25-2019, 12:58 PM

For those asking I was asked not to share the dyno due to the belt slip at upper rpms on the non-gtr plenum car... both cars have an identical build minus the gtr plenum. GTR > Stock VHR > Stillen plenum

Senna-F1 · 02-25-2019, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullitt5897

This car does make more power. I have a comparison graph of the exact same build one with the gtr conversion and one without. here is what we found:

GTR Intake Power in comparison (approximate):
3k rpm: +75whp, +50ftlbs

3.5k rpm: +55whp, +25ftlbs

4k rpm: +55whp, +25ftlbs

4.5k rpm: +45whp, +10ftlbs

5k rpm: +15whp, +0ftlbs

5.5k rpm: +25whp, +5ftlbs

6k rpm: +30whp, +10ftlbs

6.5k rpm: +25whp, +10ftlbs

7k rpm: +35whp, +10ftlbs

7.5k rpm: Non-GTR plenum had belt slip here so I wont post the numbers as people may believe the numbers as typical gains. I would suspect it would be consistent with the trend we see from 6.5k - 7k. The power never drops off for the GTR plenum.

WHAT? OK, these numbers are mathematically impossible. Just look at the 0 TQ increase that resulted in a 15 HP increase. Anyone that knows anything about TQ and HP knows that's not how things work. A 0 increase in TQ = a 0 increase in HP. So, let's look at these other suspect numbers. Here is a chart of what the supposed increase in TQ would give you in extra HP.

I remember a few years ago reading through hundreds of posts when this conversion kit came out waiting for the page that would show the dyno chart. I wasted 1-2 days reading posts and never saw a chart. And again, no chart with some wildly inaccurate claims about this conversion.

bullitt5897 · 02-25-2019, 05:44 PM

Also I am not RJM... this didn’t come from RJM... this came from a customer. My comments are based on the overlay you see above.

Senna-F1 · 02-25-2019, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullitt5897

I have the charts. Again this was an estimation of power increases based on a visual comparison of the two. This is a delta of the two.

You may not like the number but it’s close to accurate. The stock manifold car made ~150whp at 3k rpm where the gtr conversion made 225whp at the same rpm.

I have cropped the dyno graph to show what I am talking about. Starts at 3k and is in 500rpm increments. This is real world results... not made up BS.

Your graphs are not overlaid correctly. TQ and HP should always cross at 5252 RPM. Maybe you should line them up better.

And yes, your posted numbers that we were expected to accept at face value before I called you on it are absoloutely BS. Mathematically proven BS.

bullitt5897 · 02-25-2019, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senna-F1

Your graphs are not overlaid correctly. TQ and HP should always cross at 5252 RPM. Maybe you should line them up better.

And yes, your posted numbers that we were expected to accept at face value before I called you on it are absoloutely BS. Mathematically proven BS.

Again a customer sent me this. I will get his original graphs and compare side by side

bullitt5897 · 02-25-2019, 06:21 PM

just got both graphs… let me do a comparison.

NorthStyle · 02-25-2019, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senna-F1

Not sure which parts you are referring to. I’m just interested in the air filter relocation. Here is a link to someone who did something similar with a 3-D printer but hacked away a lot more at the radiator support. The one above just uses the existing hole although it too may have been enlarged. Topz mentioned the 3D printed version would pick up some horsepower for sure. How much is not known, and probably becomes more useful as you approach the 550 to 600 power levels. SOHO seems to only publish dyno sheets of air to air supercharger kits that use a turbo guard. Why? There is some benefit but even they are saying they don’t know how much. Personally I find it strange, that a reputable shop would remove an air filter with no idea of the benefits of doing so.

Topgunz - air to air upgrade

Sorry Senna, haven't been on for a few days. Anyway, I was referring to whether or not the VHR manifold and added piping made a noticeable increase in power over the Stillen manifold, or if it was just for looks.

In regards to bullitts numbers, I'm wondering if it was actually the manifold or relocated filter that made the difference in power. I remember when redondoaveb (sp? sorry bro lol) posted dynos with the sandwich filter and with the turboguard and he made similar jumps in power so who knows what the actual difference maker is, the filter or the manifold?

bullitt5897 · 02-25-2019, 07:08 PM

GTR Plenum Vs OEM Plenum:

3.5k: +10whp (190 OEM vs 200 GTR), +10ftlbs (290 OEM vs 300 GTR)
4k: +10whp (230 OEM vs. 240 GTR), +5ftlbs (310 OEM vs 315 GTR)
4.5k: +5whp (275 OEM vs 280 GTR), +10ftlbs (325 OEM vs 335 GTR)
5k: +10whp (335 OEM vs 345 GTR), +5ftlbs (355 OEM vs 360 GTR)
5.5k: +10whp (375 OEM vs 385 GTR), +10ftlbs (370 OEM vs 380 GTR)
6k: +5whp (420 OEM vs 425 GTR), +0ftlbs (370 OEM vs 370 GTR)
6.5k: +0whp (460 OEM vs 460 GTR), +0ftlbs (360 OEM vs 360 GTR)
7k:+10whp (490 OEM vs 500 GTR), +0ftlbs (360 OEM vs 360 GTR)
7.5k: OEM Slipped...

My Apologies for the misrepresented information. I was able to get the individual dynos and run through their respective numbers. OEM Max was: 492whp/378tq the GTR plenum 515whp/377tq.

I will clean up my posts prior and we can use this as a reference for the gtr plenum. Both cars were on pump gas and at 10PSI.

bullitt5897 · 02-25-2019, 07:10 PM

@ Senna I have removed the posts with the incorrect information. would you mind removing the posts in which you quote it as to not confuse anyone with my mistake. Thanks.

Senna-F1 · 02-25-2019, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullitt5897

@ Senna I have removed the posts with the incorrect information. would you mind removing the posts in which you quote it as to not confuse anyone with my mistake. Thanks.

No, because you are till posting incorrect information. Remember asking me if I was “dense”? Well, why are you still posting numbers where the TQ or HP change is 0, but then showing an increase in the other measurement? Your latest numbers are wrong again. No change in one = no change in the other.

Senna-F1 · 02-25-2019, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullitt5897

GTR Plenum Vs OEM Plenum:

3.5k: +10whp (190 OEM vs 200 GTR), +10ftlbs (290 OEM vs 300 GTR)
4k: +10whp (230 OEM vs. 240 GTR), +5ftlbs (310 OEM vs 315 GTR)
4.5k: +5whp (275 OEM vs 280 GTR), +10ftlbs (325 OEM vs 335 GTR)
5k: +10whp (335 OEM vs 345 GTR), +5ftlbs (355 OEM vs 360 GTR)
5.5k: +10whp (375 OEM vs 385 GTR), +10ftlbs (370 OEM vs 380 GTR)
6k: +5whp (420 OEM vs 425 GTR), +0ftlbs (370 OEM vs 370 GTR)
6.5k: +0whp (460 OEM vs 460 GTR), +0ftlbs (360 OEM vs 360 GTR)
7k:+10whp (490 OEM vs 500 GTR), +0ftlbs (360 OEM vs 360 GTR)
7.5k: OEM Slipped...

My Apologies for the misrepresented information. I was able to get the individual dynos and run through their respective numbers. OEM Max was: 492whp/378tq the GTR plenum 515whp/377tq.

I will clean up my posts prior and we can use this as a reference for the gtr plenum. Both cars were on pump gas and at 10PSI.

How are you coming up with these numbers? I mean just looking at the 7000 RPM Number, 360 TQ @ 7000 = 480 HP, not 490, and definitely not the 500 you are showing. And if the graph you are using clearly showed the 2 curves were shifted incorrectly horizontally, how do we know they weren't also shifted vertically? That'd be a really easy way to show an increase in power! Sorry but your numbers and methods are suspect. Different car, different day, different dyno? Im not sure. And then instead of using actual data, you overlaying photos to compare. It's just not working.

bullitt5897 · 02-25-2019, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senna-F1

No, because you are till posting incorrect information. Remember asking me if I was “dense”? Well, why are you still posting numbers where the TQ or HP change is 0, but then showing an increase in the other measurement? Your latest numbers are wrong again. No change in one = no change in the other.

2 separate vehicles... same exact setup... yes you can have these numbers. I never said this was the same car. I believe this is where the miscommunication is. I would 100% agree with you if this was the same car... but again as I mentioned early this is two separate cars with the exact same setup minus the intake manifold difference.

Same builds done by the same shop.

bullitt5897 · 02-25-2019, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senna-F1

How are you coming up with these numbers? I mean just looking at the 7000 RPM Number, 360 TQ @ 7000 = 480 HP, not 490, and definitely not the 500 you are showing. And if the graph you are using clearly showed the 2 curves were shifted incorrectly horizontally, how do we know they weren't also shifted vertically? That'd be a really easy way to show an increase in power! Sorry but your numbers and methods are suspect. Different car, different day, different dyno? Im not sure. And then instead of using actual data, you overlaying photos to compare. It's just not working.

The scaling was off on one of the graphs thus why my original post was incorrect. I made those comments during my lunch break today and didn’t give it full attention to the 5250 cross over. I literally read the lines and the hp/tq numbers based on the 500rpm segments.

Again 2 cars the exact same builds minus the intake manifold. Gtr conversion showed a slight improvement throughout when comparing two like vehicles.

02-22-2019, 06:20 PM	#302 (permalink)
redondoaveb A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: So. Commiefornia Posts: 6,370 Drives: 2014 Nismo Gunmetal Rep Power: 2684374	Here are pictures of the turbo guard and ngr screens that I supplied Specialty Z for dyno testing. You can see the results on the second page. It was a drastic drop just with screen size. https://www.instagram.com/p/Btl8qP9n...d=w0tkhn53aegr "Z"en likes this. __________________ Fast Intentions "Stage Seb" twin turbo #098- Specialty Z/Tial-Xonarotor/CJM/Ecutek/HKS/KW/SPL/Hotchkis/Rohana/Toyo 700+whp

02-25-2019, 12:58 PM	#303 (permalink)
bullitt5897 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: North GA Posts: 6,831 Drives: Twin Turbo Z34 Rep Power: 3683	For those asking I was asked not to share the dyno due to the belt slip at upper rpms on the non-gtr plenum car... both cars have an identical build minus the gtr plenum. GTR > Stock VHR > Stillen plenum __________________ *Shop Cars: 2013 318whp Nismo VspecII 370z SOLD, 2009 1000hp+ 93oct 4.0L TT 370z Fast Intentions STAGE 4 #054* Last edited by bullitt5897; 02-25-2019 at 01:09 PM.

02-25-2019, 05:44 PM	#305 (permalink)
bullitt5897 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: North GA Posts: 6,831 Drives: Twin Turbo Z34 Rep Power: 3683	Also I am not RJM... this didn’t come from RJM... this came from a customer. My comments are based on the overlay you see above. __________________ *Shop Cars: 2013 318whp Nismo VspecII 370z SOLD, 2009 1000hp+ 93oct 4.0L TT 370z Fast Intentions STAGE 4 #054*

02-25-2019, 06:21 PM	#308 (permalink)
bullitt5897 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: North GA Posts: 6,831 Drives: Twin Turbo Z34 Rep Power: 3683	just got both graphs… let me do a comparison. __________________ *Shop Cars: 2013 318whp Nismo VspecII 370z SOLD, 2009 1000hp+ 93oct 4.0L TT 370z Fast Intentions STAGE 4 #054*

02-25-2019, 07:08 PM	#310 (permalink)
bullitt5897 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: North GA Posts: 6,831 Drives: Twin Turbo Z34 Rep Power: 3683	GTR Plenum Vs OEM Plenum: 3.5k: +10whp (190 OEM vs 200 GTR), +10ftlbs (290 OEM vs 300 GTR) 4k: +10whp (230 OEM vs. 240 GTR), +5ftlbs (310 OEM vs 315 GTR) 4.5k: +5whp (275 OEM vs 280 GTR), +10ftlbs (325 OEM vs 335 GTR) 5k: +10whp (335 OEM vs 345 GTR), +5ftlbs (355 OEM vs 360 GTR) 5.5k: +10whp (375 OEM vs 385 GTR), +10ftlbs (370 OEM vs 380 GTR) 6k: +5whp (420 OEM vs 425 GTR), +0ftlbs (370 OEM vs 370 GTR) 6.5k: +0whp (460 OEM vs 460 GTR), +0ftlbs (360 OEM vs 360 GTR) 7k:+10whp (490 OEM vs 500 GTR), +0ftlbs (360 OEM vs 360 GTR) 7.5k: OEM Slipped... My Apologies for the misrepresented information. I was able to get the individual dynos and run through their respective numbers. OEM Max was: 492whp/378tq the GTR plenum 515whp/377tq. I will clean up my posts prior and we can use this as a reference for the gtr plenum. Both cars were on pump gas and at 10PSI. __________________ *Shop Cars: 2013 318whp Nismo VspecII 370z SOLD, 2009 1000hp+ 93oct 4.0L TT 370z Fast Intentions STAGE 4 #054*

02-25-2019, 07:10 PM	#311 (permalink)
bullitt5897 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: North GA Posts: 6,831 Drives: Twin Turbo Z34 Rep Power: 3683	@ Senna I have removed the posts with the incorrect information. would you mind removing the posts in which you quote it as to not confuse anyone with my mistake. Thanks. __________________ *Shop Cars: 2013 318whp Nismo VspecII 370z SOLD, 2009 1000hp+ 93oct 4.0L TT 370z Fast Intentions STAGE 4 #054*

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