Preparation for the STILLEN supercharger

Zsteve · 03-08-2010, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StillenZ

not tryin to take up space....but agreed ^^^^... look at my sig though... damnit.

Soooo you want the GTM?

kdoske · 03-08-2010, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zsteve

Soooo you want the GTM?

seems pretty clear that's the directions its headed, lol.

stormcrow · 03-08-2010, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phimosis

Again, you're doing nothing constructive here and you are only trying to be offenseive. It's not warranted and hurts the370.com community.

Claiming that Stillen is using illegal business practices in the marketing of their product is not "questioning them." Your comments are unwarranted and what you're claiming is probably not provable, even if it were true.

After reading your posts throughout this thread, you'll probably want to debate me on my use of the word "illegal", but "illegitimate" is referring to parentage of offspring. To use "Illegitimate" in the business context, the synonym which most closely fits is "illegal." Cross reference a thesaurus if you don't believe me. The interpretation by attorneys in a slander suit would also use the same logic.

About your most recent comment about my signature "solving your mystery;" all you are trying to do is deflect the criticism back at someone else to avoid scrutiny. I could answer with reasons like, they were first to market or they offered a group buy, etc.. But, the truth still is that you are being rude to too many of the people on this forum for no valid reason. I really am surprised the administrators have allowed this behaviour and not deleted your posts. If every member took the same attitude that you do towards Kyle and the other members of the Stillen team, or even Sam at GTM for that matter, they would simply stop posting to this forum. Think about it just for a moment; if Kyle was getting verbally attacked and badgered by EVERY person, they wouldn't post here. They would find another forum or advertising outlet that was friendly to them and release their information there first. And honestly, there are other 370z forums out there that haven't done as well and would love to get exclusive updates on aftermarket projects. If we chase off people like Stillen, GTM and Altered Atmosphere and they start posting their breaking news to other sites and refuse to post here, we end up killing the site. So please, use your sarcasm for humor, not to insult. And if you are skeptical of someone's data, post a rhetorical question, like "why would they do that?" rather than a direct confrontation.

Thanks,

-Phim

PM sent your way to keep this thread from going further OT.

stormcrow · 03-08-2010, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle@STILLEN

The orange GT R is currently set up for Targa road rallies. We wanted to take the car on the track at Fontana but it had literally just come home about two days before the meet and was still set up in rally trim so it wouldn't have been very good. The shocks were too soft, the sway bar was too soft, the ride height was too tall...It would have been really slow.

The GT R racing in the Challenge series this year is going to be equipped with our coil overs, sway bars, and brake lines. We actually don't have anything to do with that car other than a parts supplier.

Steve really wants to continue with the Targa rallies which means the car will be traveling to New Zealand and Australia and a few other countries/events. As much as I'd like to make the GT R our Time Attack car, Steve wants to continue using it in the rallies.

If we're able to put together a Time Attack program we will be using a 370Z. We will probably start in the lower classes, then move to modified then eventually the hope would be to go to Unlimited. It really depends on development, money, and the driver.

I can't blame Steve. Honestly, the Targa series will bring more coverage than the RTA series. It will certainly have a better ROI. The GoTo team, I believe (don't quote me), are also looking at other options for their GT-R. RTA just doesn't bring in the media coverage or fan base necessary for large scale teams. Just make sure to tell Steve to be on the lookout for this Martin Donnon fellow when down under. He will try to fill the GT-R transmission with snake oil and Chinese clutch packs.

Racing the 370Z in the Street class in RTA would be ok, but I honestly would recommend setting your sights on starting in Modified. I think you guys should be able to compete with AE Performance and Double Down. I'm sure other teams will pop up with the 370Z this year, as well. Though, watch out for that Paul D of AE...the kid's got mad driving skills.

Unlimited is going to be very fun to watch this year. I think there is going to be some extreme competition.

CinZinnati · 03-08-2010, 11:32 PM

Just my two cents...and I say this to be positive. I want this thread to stay on track, but I think that it sucks that Kyle feels the need to apologize. IMO he is doing us a favor keeping us in the loop, even if only to a certain degree. Granted he is a salesman, but still....
However, I enjoy the heated debates. It shows enthusiasm and shows the knowledge of the forums members-from which I obtain a ton of info. Debates bring about knowledge (sounds corny) but true. Nothing wrong with heated exchanges but lets not get personal or we all miss out. A few pages back before it got personal there was some great info being thrown out because of differences of opinion, difference was it wasn't personal. I can't speak for Kyle or Josh, but I would think they also appreciate the debate and enthusiasm...but not the negativity. I like the thought of everyone being on the same page, even with different opinions.
If all this crap doesn't stop tho....I'm gonna start dvring my shows cause this is way more entertaining hehe

travisjb · 03-08-2010, 11:35 PM

umm, helo

there may be another in modified if I can get my act together

Red370 · 03-08-2010, 11:43 PM

well stop being lazy travis and get that bad boy published ASAP!

travisjb · 03-08-2010, 11:51 PM

haha... working on it... damn thing won't start right now... more updates on my journal

sorry, kyle and josh, getting a bit off topic here again

stormcrow · 03-09-2010, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CinZinnati

Just my two cents...and I say this to be positive. I want this thread to stay on track, but I think that it sucks that Kyle feels the need to apologize. IMO he is doing us a favor keeping us in the loop, even if only to a certain degree. Granted he is a salesman, but still....
However, I enjoy the heated debates. It shows enthusiasm and shows the knowledge of the forums members-from which I obtain a ton of info. Debates bring about knowledge (sounds corny) but true. Nothing wrong with heated exchanges but lets not get personal or we all miss out. A few pages back before it got personal there was some great info being thrown out because of differences of opinion, difference was it wasn't personal. I can't speak for Kyle or Josh, but I would think they also appreciate the debate and enthusiasm...but not the negativity. I like the thought of everyone being on the same page, even with different opinions.
If all this crap doesn't stop tho....I'm gonna start dvring my shows cause this is way more entertaining hehe

My last OT post in this thread...unless Kyle would like to continue talking racing. That I can do all day.

CinZinnati, you bring up some very good points and I, too, hate the fact that some of this turned personal. That was never my intention and I accept my responsibility in returning fire when first fired upon. That said, I believe you do see the point of my posts...passing on my experiences and first-hand knowledge to those who come after me all the while trying to keep vendors honest.

I will say that I believe I have jumped on Kyle a bit too harshly for not posting the PSI, but in my own defense, it was too reminiscent of other forum members' past experiences with other vendors. Secrecy and false claims have led to other vendors' (VRT, SGP, RA, PF, etc.) fleecing the 350Z and G35 communities, so it struck a bit too close to home. Stillen is not amongst these vendors, so, admittedly, I should have treaded a bit more softly.

One thing I do want to state my opinion on is something that both you and Phim brought up - reasoning that Stillen, AAM, GTM and other vendors are somehow doing us a favor by posting on these boards. This is completely untrue. WE are their clientelle. We are the reason they are in business and why they develop aftermarket products. Posting tidbits of information and updates only serves to entice their market base. Without forum members reading their threads, updates, and marketing, their sales would dwindle drastically. Sure, we all love the updates, but the vendors NEED to post these more than we need to see them. Just food for thought.

BTW, the old addage of "any publicity is good publicity" remains true. I'm sure I've sealed the deal on a few kits...especially with the fanboys. You never know - Kyle may be paying me to post.

Zsteve · 03-09-2010, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormcrow

My last OT post in this thread...unless Kyle would like to continue talking racing. That I can do all day.

CinZinnati, you bring up some very good points and I, too, hate the fact that some of this turned personal. That was never my intention and I accept my responsibility in returning fire when first fired upon. That said, I believe you do see the point of my posts...passing on my experiences and first-hand knowledge to those who come after me all the while trying to keep vendors honest.

I will say that I believe I have jumped on Kyle a bit too harshly for not posting the PSI, but in my own defense, it was too reminiscent of other forum members' past experiences with other vendors. Secrecy and false claims have led to other vendors' (VRT, SGP, RA, PF, etc.) fleecing the 350Z and G35 communities, so it struck a bit too close to home. Stillen is not amongst these vendors, so, admittedly, I should have treaded a bit more softly.

One thing I do want to state my opinion on is something that both you and Phim brought up - reasoning that Stillen, AAM, GTM and other vendors are somehow doing us a favor by posting on these boards. This is completely untrue. WE are their clientelle. We are the reason they are in business and why they develop aftermarket products. Posting tidbits of information and updates only serves to entice their market base. Without forum members reading their threads, updates, and marketing, their sales would dwindle drastically. Sure, we all love the updates, but the vendors NEED to post these more than we need to see them. Just food for thought.
BTW, the old addage of "any publicity is good publicity" remains true. I'm sure I've sealed the deal on a few kits...especially with the fanboys. You never know - Kyle may be paying me to post.

So true, as a consumer we are putting our hard earned money into venders pockets so we want good quality, fair priced products. But we need good and true info to make our selection. I can wait for the final release but if I am promised something then I want it and if its not there then some credibility has been lost, but can be regained by a good product with fair pricing. We, the consumer should demand this and these forums can help with that, and help both sides. Us letting vendors know what we want, and vendors by giving good info when ready.

I am patiently waiting for the release. Well semi patiently.

Buddy Revell · 03-09-2010, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCZ

...You were also right about smaller compressor housing producing torque earlier, but you failed to mention that the smaller housing is a huge limiting factor on hp. Upgrading compressors is a hell of a lot more money than changing a pulley and a map.

Yeah, there's always a trade-off when it comes to sizing. It comes down to what your priority is, more peak power potential or more mid-range power. Was wondering what your thoughts were about that?

RCZ · 03-09-2010, 12:40 PM

Mine personally?

Buddy Revell · 03-09-2010, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCZ

Mine personally?

Yeah, sure. Would a 10-12 whp advantage at the top end be worth it if there was a 20-25 whp disadvantage in the mid-range?

DannyGT · 03-09-2010, 02:00 PM

On a side note, it hit 60 degrees here the last couple of days and has just been gorgeous outside. I put a smile on my face every time I think about meeting RCZ 'half way' and putting together an awesome show for everyone! What a difference the days make on how much you can truly enjoy driving the crap out of the car!

...cant wait.

RCZ · 03-09-2010, 02:12 PM

Well, if you phrase it like that perhaps not. However, that's not exactly a realistic situation. A big factor with this kit is going to be upgradability. A supercharger that has a larger housing from the start may suffer a little bit on the low end, but has much greater potential. I think with those figures you were referring to the power levels between the stillen kit and the gtm kit? If Im not mistaken that was around the difference in the power curves.
This is all purely theoretical because we have no idea what the production power output of the CARB legal Stillen kit. They have said it several times. It may end up being higher or lower. So to answer your question I'll say this:

It is absolutely worth it to me for two reasons. 1) The power potential and 2) Price of upgrading. You say 10-12hp peak advantage? I say you aren't scratching the surface of the potential of having a bigger housing at 10-12hp. I think You are looking at more of at least a 50+whp power difference with some very slight alterations. That takes me to my second point, ease and price of upgrading. Changing a pulley and a tune may cost a few hundred bucks all said and done, labor included. So if you wanted to upgrade from say a stillen stage 1 to a stage 2, you would simply keep the compressor housing, but change the pulley and the tune. Correct me if I'm wrong, but GTM said that each staged kit uses a different compressor housing. That means that if you wanted to upgrade from a stage 1 to a stage 2, you wouldnt be looking at a $300 anymore, now you're looking at a $1000 minimum between parts, labor and a tune.

So absolutely, its worth it for me to lose 5% of power in the mid range in exchange for the potential to make so much more and very cheaply. After all, in any situation where you are actually using the power, your RPM's aren't dropping below 4k. That little bump in mid range tq more or less becomes meaningless.

(just to clarify, I don't know that upgrading Stillen will be $300 or that upgrading GTM will be $1000, those numbers are just there to point out the fact that there is a BIG price difference between a pulley change and a compressor change)

03-08-2010, 11:32 PM	#965 (permalink)
CinZinnati Base Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Cincinnati Age: 45 Posts: 28 Drives: 09 Solid Red 370z Rep Power: 16	Just my two cents...and I say this to be positive. I want this thread to stay on track, but I think that it sucks that Kyle feels the need to apologize. IMO he is doing us a favor keeping us in the loop, even if only to a certain degree. Granted he is a salesman, but still.... However, I enjoy the heated debates. It shows enthusiasm and shows the knowledge of the forums members-from which I obtain a ton of info. Debates bring about knowledge (sounds corny) but true. Nothing wrong with heated exchanges but lets not get personal or we all miss out. A few pages back before it got personal there was some great info being thrown out because of differences of opinion, difference was it wasn't personal. I can't speak for Kyle or Josh, but I would think they also appreciate the debate and enthusiasm...but not the negativity. I like the thought of everyone being on the same page, even with different opinions. If all this crap doesn't stop tho....I'm gonna start dvring my shows cause this is way more entertaining hehe __________________ '09 Solid Red 370z with Stillen CBE, HFC's, and Gen 3 air intakes

03-08-2010, 11:35 PM	#966 (permalink)
travisjb A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: GSO Posts: 2,803 Drives: VIR Rep Power: 188	umm, helo there may be another in modified if I can get my act together __________________ 2009 370Z #104 For Sale

03-08-2010, 11:43 PM	#967 (permalink)
Red370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Kaiserslautern, Germany Posts: 4,391 Drives: your mom to church Rep Power: 296	well stop being lazy travis and get that bad boy published ASAP! __________________ 2011 Mustang 5.0 \| 3.55's \| Lethal Performance off road H-Pipe \| Magnaflow Muffler Delete \| JLT CAI/Bama tuned 417whp/ 404 ft/lbs

03-08-2010, 11:51 PM	#968 (permalink)
travisjb A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: GSO Posts: 2,803 Drives: VIR Rep Power: 188	haha... working on it... damn thing won't start right now... more updates on my journal sorry, kyle and josh, getting a bit off topic here again __________________ 2009 370Z #104 For Sale

03-09-2010, 02:00 PM	#974 (permalink)
DannyGT Track Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Jersey Posts: 919 Drives: 370Z (SOLD) Rep Power: 279	On a side note, it hit 60 degrees here the last couple of days and has just been gorgeous outside. I put a smile on my face every time I think about meeting RCZ 'half way' and putting together an awesome show for everyone! What a difference the days make on how much you can truly enjoy driving the crap out of the car! ...cant wait. __________________ Performance GTM Stage 1 SC, GTM Res.Test Pipes, Invidia Gemini Exhaust, GTM HD Oil Cooler Wheels & Suspension AME Tracer TM02's 19x9.5F 19x10.5R w/ 265x35F & 305x30R, Hotchkis Sways, BC (BR) Racing Coilovers (Car Sold)

03-09-2010, 12:40 PM	#972 (permalink)
RCZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Miami Posts: 6,403 Drives: '09 370Z Rep Power: 1119	Mine personally?

03-09-2010, 02:12 PM	#975 (permalink)
RCZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Miami Posts: 6,403 Drives: '09 370Z Rep Power: 1119	Well, if you phrase it like that perhaps not. However, that's not exactly a realistic situation. A big factor with this kit is going to be upgradability. A supercharger that has a larger housing from the start may suffer a little bit on the low end, but has much greater potential. I think with those figures you were referring to the power levels between the stillen kit and the gtm kit? If Im not mistaken that was around the difference in the power curves. This is all purely theoretical because we have no idea what the production power output of the CARB legal Stillen kit. They have said it several times. It may end up being higher or lower. So to answer your question I'll say this: It is absolutely worth it to me for two reasons. 1) The power potential and 2) Price of upgrading. You say 10-12hp peak advantage? I say you aren't scratching the surface of the potential of having a bigger housing at 10-12hp. I think You are looking at more of at least a 50+whp power difference with some very slight alterations. That takes me to my second point, ease and price of upgrading. Changing a pulley and a tune may cost a few hundred bucks all said and done, labor included. So if you wanted to upgrade from say a stillen stage 1 to a stage 2, you would simply keep the compressor housing, but change the pulley and the tune. Correct me if I'm wrong, but GTM said that each staged kit uses a different compressor housing. That means that if you wanted to upgrade from a stage 1 to a stage 2, you wouldnt be looking at a $300 anymore, now you're looking at a $1000 minimum between parts, labor and a tune. So absolutely, its worth it for me to lose 5% of power in the mid range in exchange for the potential to make so much more and very cheaply. After all, in any situation where you are actually using the power, your RPM's aren't dropping below 4k. That little bump in mid range tq more or less becomes meaningless. (just to clarify, I don't know that upgrading Stillen will be $300 or that upgrading GTM will be $1000, those numbers are just there to point out the fact that there is a BIG price difference between a pulley change and a compressor change) Last edited by RCZ; 03-09-2010 at 02:17 PM.

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