Water/meth injection info

Jinxx · 05-06-2017, 04:10 PM

I have been searching for info on water meth injection and it seems to be limited..everyone is running E85 now which isn't really a option for me on availability so I have been toying with the idea of water/meth. I did read some info about all cylinders not getting even spray and cracking pistons ...most of those seemed to be evo and wrx type cars ...couldn't find that situation for other type of cars. But with that in mind is it a common problem with all cars is it a installation issue on location of spray nozzles....would you spray two nozzles one in each intake ..or one nozzle in the upper plenum ...how are other running it ? Any info would be helpful

Hotrodz · 05-06-2017, 06:59 PM

Fixed!!!! 600+ rwhp Twin Turbo w/ Water Methanol

Not a hard search and you should checkout his web and facebook page!

Jinxx · 05-06-2017, 08:39 PM

Yes I seen that thread ...I guese I was looking for issues with water/meth kits and maybe reliability problems or things to look out for

Hotrodz · 05-06-2017, 10:42 PM

All the forced induction are a gamble adding water and meth definitely has some positives but with you add another system to the mix it add additional points of failure that can be catastrophic. Again there are lots of info on water and meth on and off the forum. Soho has had lots of success so far and I would not hesitate to talk to the directly as they provide great customer service and are very responsive.

James10694 · 05-06-2017, 11:57 PM

Yes talk to SOHO, they're running a 700whp single turbo kit on meth

Jinxx · 05-07-2017, 04:38 AM

I have talked to soho about it and they had good things to say on increases ...it's the "overthinking " questions like .....I know the gains are made by cooling the temps and allowing timing to be increased adding the risk of damage if it fails ..but is the risk just as high if used more so for cooling temps and if I'm thinking correct as our cars increase boost/heat with 93octane ...the ECM pulls timing as a correction....but if the water/meth keeps the car from having to pull timing would there be gains without advancing it ....thus keeping it safe in case of failure.........I'm not having any issues with my tune on 93 octane with detonation and not sure how much or if any timing is being pulled from the ECM ....My thoughts were to keep the 93 tune ...add the meth kit and retune with a sec map..the 93 tune would be a backup tune in case I run out of meth or had a issue with the meth kit. Not wanting to add more boost or get to agressive with timing

lj909 · 05-08-2017, 10:52 AM

If your "over thinking" then don't forget to think about meth being corrosive

Chuck33079 · 05-08-2017, 11:18 AM

If you do this, make sure to run 50/50 water to meth. Mixing it with water means you don't have a plastic tank of flammable liquid hanging out in the engine bay or stuffed where the spare tire used to be.

Jinxx · 05-08-2017, 11:53 AM

I would either run 50/50 or 70 water 30 meth ... as far as corrosive .. does it cause a issue when mixed or only when full meth ?

Spooler · 05-08-2017, 11:58 AM

The proper way to do it would be to have 6 nozzles, one for each cylinder. You would have to ensure you have enough pump to atomize the water properly. This is done in the diesel world. It's called putting your truck on drugs. It is safer to only use distilled water for a diesel with an anti-rust additive. The meth can advance the timing on a diesel and cause other issues, hence the drugs. I am not sure on gas engines. I have thought about it some. Not sure on if it is worth it or not.

TopgunZ · 05-08-2017, 11:58 AM

You would need to do it in each intake side if you are worried about getting it equally in each cylinder. If its blowing straight into the manifold I dont see how you would get an even distribution.

Also in regards to your timing being controlled by temp. If you wanted to do that then you would need the car to have the MAFS post injection, which is a bad idea because you would soak the sensors down with liquid. If you did it where the MAFS were pre injection then the ecu couldn't read the cooler temps from the spray at all and you couldnt rely on the ecu to advance or pull timing.

Zat_Zuma · 05-08-2017, 12:24 PM

I looked into it to help with IAT's with a GTM supercharger and help the kit produce more power.

It's a slippery slope that has potential for major issues. To be 80% sure that it may work, individual port injection is preferred and a maintenance plan to prevent the nozzles from plugging over time.

The bottom line is that you are never 100% sure that the meth injection is working for each cylinder without proper gauges and maintenance. All it takes is one cylinder to have detonation and then a meltdown.

Best bet is to tune without meth injection and use meth injection as a extra margin of safety and heat management but don't rely on it to make extra HP.

Having a good measurement system of gauges helps you see what is going on.

Chuck33079 · 05-08-2017, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zat_Zuma

The bottom line is that you are never 100% sure that the meth injection is working for each cylinder without proper gauges and maintenance. All it takes is one cylinder to have detonation and then a meltdown.

Yep. I never felt comfortable with it on my previous car. I'll either run straight 93 or E85. There's too many things that can fail on a meth setup.

Hotrodz · 05-08-2017, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zat_Zuma

I looked into it to help with IAT's with a GTM supercharger and help the kit produce more power.

It's a slippery slope that has potential for major issues. To be 80% sure that it may work, individual port injection is preferred and a maintenance plan to prevent the nozzles from plugging over time.

The bottom line is that you are never 100% sure that the meth injection is working for each cylinder without proper gauges and maintenance. All it takes is one cylinder to have detonation and then a meltdown.

Best bet is to tune without meth injection and use meth injection as a extra margin of safety and heat management but don't rely on it to make extra HP.

Having a good measurement system of gauges helps you see what is going on.

^^^This as live and travel to cities and towns that the highest temperatures in the US. I had several discussions with Seb at SpecialtyZ about the merits of meth and his answer was just say no to drugs as there are to many risks and points of failure once you add another component to your fueling system. What he did was gave me a high temp tune that made additional compensations on the timing and I ran at a lower boost level. I never had any issues in temps from 100 to 127....and it a dry heat!

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

Jinxx · 05-08-2017, 01:15 PM

I'm not having issues with heat or timing .. I just was looking into it to see if it was worth the effort to add .. if E85 was more available I would convert over ... but I guess I'll just be content with it where it is ......522/395 is respectable for a supercharger ... I have a BP kit on the way for my 2017 nismo ... guess I'll focus on that one for more HP/TQ

05-06-2017, 04:10 PM	#1 (permalink)
Jinxx Track Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: South Carolina Posts: 699 Drives: 2017 nismo 370z Rep Power: 3375	Water/meth injection info I have been searching for info on water meth injection and it seems to be limited..everyone is running E85 now which isn't really a option for me on availability so I have been toying with the idea of water/meth. I did read some info about all cylinders not getting even spray and cracking pistons ...most of those seemed to be evo and wrx type cars ...couldn't find that situation for other type of cars. But with that in mind is it a common problem with all cars is it a installation issue on location of spray nozzles....would you spray two nozzles one in each intake ..or one nozzle in the upper plenum ...how are other running it ? Any info would be helpful

05-06-2017, 06:59 PM	#2 (permalink)
Hotrodz A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: NW, AZ Posts: 9,330 Drives: 10 Nissan 370z Nismo Rep Power: 2684385	Fixed!!!! 600+ rwhp Twin Turbo w/ Water Methanol Not a hard search and you should checkout his web and facebook page! __________________ *Fast Intentions TT Installed and Tuned by Seb at SpecialtyZ 610whp 560tq:\|Fast Intentions 3" TT-TDX*\|SpecialtyZ/Fast Intentions 72 Row Oil Cooler\|SZ 6 Puck Clutch & Flywheel\|3GsCustoms\|Z1\|Wavetrac\|Hotchkis\|Whiteline \|Blitz\|Fortune Auto 500\|Fujimura\|SPL\|H&R\|TK\|TWM\|RPM Rollbar\|Sparco\|Next Level Performance\|TrackSpec\|AeroFlow Dynamics\|Pioneer\|

05-06-2017, 10:42 PM	#4 (permalink)
Hotrodz A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: NW, AZ Posts: 9,330 Drives: 10 Nissan 370z Nismo Rep Power: 2684385	All the forced induction are a gamble adding water and meth definitely has some positives but with you add another system to the mix it add additional points of failure that can be catastrophic. Again there are lots of info on water and meth on and off the forum. Soho has had lots of success so far and I would not hesitate to talk to the directly as they provide great customer service and are very responsive. Nik@SOHO and James10694 like this. __________________ *Fast Intentions TT Installed and Tuned by Seb at SpecialtyZ 610whp 560tq:\|Fast Intentions 3" TT-TDX*\|SpecialtyZ/Fast Intentions 72 Row Oil Cooler\|SZ 6 Puck Clutch & Flywheel\|3GsCustoms\|Z1\|Wavetrac\|Hotchkis\|Whiteline \|Blitz\|Fortune Auto 500\|Fujimura\|SPL\|H&R\|TK\|TWM\|RPM Rollbar\|Sparco\|Next Level Performance\|TrackSpec\|AeroFlow Dynamics\|Pioneer\|

05-06-2017, 11:57 PM	#5 (permalink)
James10694 Track Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Las Vegas NV Posts: 916 Drives: 2010 370z Nismo Rep Power: 13	Yes talk to SOHO, they're running a 700whp single turbo kit on meth __________________ Boosted Performance Single Turbo 618whp/489 tq

05-08-2017, 10:52 AM	#7 (permalink)
lj909 Track Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Riverside Posts: 584 Drives: 40th 370Z Rep Power: 12	If your "over thinking" then don't forget to think about meth being corrosive __________________ PW 07 HR350Z R.I.P. Totaled by 82yr old woman 2010 40th Anniversary 370Z

05-06-2017, 08:39 PM	#3 (permalink)
Jinxx Track Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: South Carolina Posts: 699 Drives: 2017 nismo 370z Rep Power: 3375	Yes I seen that thread ...I guese I was looking for issues with water/meth kits and maybe reliability problems or things to look out for

05-07-2017, 04:38 AM	#6 (permalink)
Jinxx Track Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: South Carolina Posts: 699 Drives: 2017 nismo 370z Rep Power: 3375	I have talked to soho about it and they had good things to say on increases ...it's the "overthinking " questions like .....I know the gains are made by cooling the temps and allowing timing to be increased adding the risk of damage if it fails ..but is the risk just as high if used more so for cooling temps and if I'm thinking correct as our cars increase boost/heat with 93octane ...the ECM pulls timing as a correction....but if the water/meth keeps the car from having to pull timing would there be gains without advancing it ....thus keeping it safe in case of failure.........I'm not having any issues with my tune on 93 octane with detonation and not sure how much or if any timing is being pulled from the ECM ....My thoughts were to keep the 93 tune ...add the meth kit and retune with a sec map..the 93 tune would be a backup tune in case I run out of meth or had a issue with the meth kit. Not wanting to add more boost or get to agressive with timing

05-08-2017, 11:18 AM	#8 (permalink)
Chuck33079 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Houston Posts: 12,265 Drives: 2011 370ztt Rep Power: 29539	If you do this, make sure to run 50/50 water to meth. Mixing it with water means you don't have a plastic tank of flammable liquid hanging out in the engine bay or stuffed where the spare tire used to be. __________________ 2011 MB Touring-Sport-6sp-Nav/GTM TT/FI TT TDX/JTran/Kosmic/Eibach/Hotchkis/SPC/CSF/RPS/SoThatsWhereAllMyMoneyWent

05-08-2017, 11:53 AM	#9 (permalink)
Jinxx Track Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: South Carolina Posts: 699 Drives: 2017 nismo 370z Rep Power: 3375	I would either run 50/50 or 70 water 30 meth ... as far as corrosive .. does it cause a issue when mixed or only when full meth ?

05-08-2017, 11:58 AM	#10 (permalink)
Spooler A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Ga Posts: 13,797 Drives: 2013 Nismo 370z Rep Power: 2684392	The proper way to do it would be to have 6 nozzles, one for each cylinder. You would have to ensure you have enough pump to atomize the water properly. This is done in the diesel world. It's called putting your truck on drugs. It is safer to only use distilled water for a diesel with an anti-rust additive. The meth can advance the timing on a diesel and cause other issues, hence the drugs. I am not sure on gas engines. I have thought about it some. Not sure on if it is worth it or not.

05-08-2017, 11:58 AM	#11 (permalink)
TopgunZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 2,651 Drives: 06 350Z , 09 370Z MT Rep Power: 6834	You would need to do it in each intake side if you are worried about getting it equally in each cylinder. If its blowing straight into the manifold I dont see how you would get an even distribution. Also in regards to your timing being controlled by temp. If you wanted to do that then you would need the car to have the MAFS post injection, which is a bad idea because you would soak the sensors down with liquid. If you did it where the MAFS were pre injection then the ecu couldn't read the cooler temps from the spray at all and you couldnt rely on the ecu to advance or pull timing. __________________ ROTREX SUPERCHARGER TUNER KITS - $6799/ CUSTOM STILLEN AIR TO AIR KITS -$2100/ 700+ WHP!! WWW.TOPGUNSPEEDWORKS.COM

05-08-2017, 12:24 PM	#12 (permalink)
Zat_Zuma A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Edmonton, Alberta ...eh Posts: 1,171 Drives: 2017 Touring auto Rep Power: 19	I looked into it to help with IAT's with a GTM supercharger and help the kit produce more power. It's a slippery slope that has potential for major issues. To be 80% sure that it may work, individual port injection is preferred and a maintenance plan to prevent the nozzles from plugging over time. The bottom line is that you are never 100% sure that the meth injection is working for each cylinder without proper gauges and maintenance. All it takes is one cylinder to have detonation and then a meltdown. Best bet is to tune without meth injection and use meth injection as a extra margin of safety and heat management but don't rely on it to make extra HP. Having a good measurement system of gauges helps you see what is going on. Chuck33079 and Hotrodz like this. __________________ [B]2009 & 2017 370Z Touring Sport Autos SOLD

05-08-2017, 01:15 PM	#15 (permalink)
Jinxx Track Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: South Carolina Posts: 699 Drives: 2017 nismo 370z Rep Power: 3375	I'm not having issues with heat or timing .. I just was looking into it to see if it was worth the effort to add .. if E85 was more available I would convert over ... but I guess I'll just be content with it where it is ......522/395 is respectable for a supercharger ... I have a BP kit on the way for my 2017 nismo ... guess I'll focus on that one for more HP/TQ

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