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Thank you all for the input!
Topz: The pulley size is the same where the belt contacts the pulley. The AMS pulley is slightly larger in overall diameter but has a little deeper groove than OEM. Chase: I was really hoping to not have to pull the assembly back out lol but I kinda figured that was where I was headed. I'll skip the direct connect part and just pull the assembly to have a looksie tomorrow or Wednesday, thanks! TBatt: My overflow tank looks different from yours... I kinda like the look of this new one too! The line seems to run fine underneath and with some extra tubing, I think I can safely clear the belt and pulleys to get it to the new tank. Also, I do only expect the pump to run for a few seconds, but it's not running at all... Thanks again guys! |
They changed the tanks somewhere along the way. Mine is the same as yours.
I was hoping not to remove the assembly too, but once I came to terms with it, pulling it is really only a ten minute job it's just a bit of a pain is all. If your Relay is engerzing, which clearly it is, then pretty safe bet the problem is past that point. Even after diagnosing the loose ground in there I still bench tested the pump just to be sure before dropping the assembly back in. |
I found it easiest to remove the passenger seat when working on the fuel pump. One word of caution is that if you do not have the seat cables connected and turn the ignition on the airbag warning will be set and you may have to go the dealer to reset it unless you have a really good scan reset tool.
I'll be removing my fuel pump for more CJM mods soon. |
Found that pesky fuel gremlin!!!
My buddy 1) pinched the power wire from the tophat connector to the fuel pump connector and 2) didn't push in the blue pin locking device for the in-tank connector to the tophat. A simple cut, strip and re-pin of the power and ground leads for the pump and the pump primes just fine now. I sealed the leak at the external filter (wasn't tight enough) and the fuel system is 100% ready to go. 20 lbs on the pressure gauge at the regulator fully backed out. For the fuel pump assembly work, I moved the passenger seat all the way forward as well as leaning it all the way forward and it allows plenty of room to get in there. All you really need to do for the CJM stuff is get the assembly out of the tank. Most of the rest is done outside the car. Should get the remainder of the conversion parts today, so my goal is to turn the engine over tomorrow or Thursday at the latest! |
Done! -ish
I have just about wrapped up the install! If you guys wouldn't mind asking me some questions about what I did to make sure that I know exactly what to check for, or just tell me lol, I would really appreciate it! I have lots of pictures from lots of angles and I will be more than happy to take more to get any feedback that I can to ensure first time success haha. I followed most of the instructions nearly to the 't'.
Things I didn't do: Modify the driver's side relay box bracket. It has good clearance without drilling out the holes to shift it. Install any air-water stuff. Don't need it!! Install Stillen-supplied coolant reservoir. The OEM one fits fine and clears the belts. Things that I did: Installed new fuel injectors (ID 1050x's) Installed new spark plugs (OEM GTR) Installed CJM S1-SE fuel return system w/ pressure regulator Installed Aeromotive Stealth 340lph fuel pump Installed independent fuel pump wiring kit Installed CJM billet fuel pump tophat Installed Stillen SC kit Installed Topgunz Air-Air conversion Installed Prosport Evo AFR and boost meters Checks I have done so far: Fuel pump primes correctly Fuel lines are leak checked Meters energize and appear to work, but will need to check further when ready to turn the engine over. Serpentine belt clears everything and every rib covers every applicable rib of the pulleys Checks I intend to do: Check air lines for leaks when ready to turn the engine over Meter op-checks when motor is running Noise check for anything abnormal sounding Fuel line double check I'm sure there are things that I am missing, so please back me up! I appreciate all of the input that I have gotten so far, and my success is due in large part to all you fine folks! Pictures: https://goo.gl/photos/6wexurgWYzweWzYw7 |
Nice work!
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You work fast!
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Don't be alarmed at the rattling sound of the SC. It is normal for it to sound like it has marbles in it. Really! The gear drive has backlash by design and when the engine idles the SC has no load on it and the engine does not run at a perfect constant rpm so you get a rattling sound. As soon as the SC accelerates or has a load on it the gear backlash is taken up and all you should hear is the beautiful whine of the SC intake.
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The silicone coupler coming out of the intercooler looks to be partially collapsed. I remember it being a bit of a pain to get right. I would take it back off and spray the joints with windex and reinstall. That is how TopZ told me to do it and it works!
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Unless you have solid motor mounts make sure that Relay box has enough clearance for when the engine torques over. The blower is going to move that way too, it isn't static.
On that note make sure there is clearance between the Stillen intake and the strut bar for when it torques as well. A smoke test isn't a bad idea. Otherwise carb cleaner sprayed on the joints while it's idling can help track down leaks. Catch can is a really good idea. Not sure if you added it or not but don't see on the list so mentioning it. You should see the crap that comes out of one once boosted. Some sewing machine oil can lubricate that BOV if needed. Take video :) |
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Done! -ish Again...
BOV flange arrived this morning! Had some friends over to double check my work and be there when I turned the engine over just in case.
Results: I'm pretty sure I have a vacuum leak due to the engine idling at a rough 1000ish RPM. Idle fuel pressure right now is about 40 psi. I'm pretty sure I need to up it to around 60 if I read right on another thread. No codes!!!! I hate that damn marble sound!!! Please listen to the video of close to the SC and verify that it sounds alright. The seller replaced all four bearings so I initially thought something may be off-balance, but if that's the normal sound, that's the normal sound haha. I'll look into raising the idle, but the sound is present at 1000 RPM... No fuel leaks at 40 psi. No coolant leaks. Meters track with chart. The car is currently in limp mode due to a wiring mix-up. I'm letting the spark plugs dry out after a couple unsuccessful starts and I will start it again in the morning. I will also get some windex on the partially collapsed coupler to maneuver it and un-collapse it. The wiring mix-up was me putting the wrong extension in the wrong spot. I connected the throttle body to the MAF and vice versa... Link to album: https://goo.gl/photos/6wexurgWYzweWzYw7 |
Low 50's psi fuel pressure :tup:
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Sebastian had me set it at 51psi with out the vacuum line hooked up to the regulator.
Your work is looking good, you'll have a blast with it believe me. Going SC its a whole different ride. |
Retest Round 2!!
Turns out when you unsuccessfully try to start the car a couple times, it doesn't want to try anymore. I let it sit overnight and came back to it this morning. I've posted the resultant videos of the engine bay cold idle, dash cold and warm idle, SC noise, and the current exhaust note at idle.
Fuel pressure set to 50-52 psi as recommended. I thought the purpose of hooking the vacuum line to the regulator was to give you more pressure at boost to accommodate the increased air pressure. Vacuum is lower than it was the first time I started it up (-18/19 vice -22/23 the first time), so I'll start looking for leaks. Question: Do you guys think that the canned Stillen tune will be sufficient to make the car driveable? I want to take it around the block just to see if it drives OK, but being this is my first boosted car and I did it myself, I want to yield to the wisdom of others. I have a cable with the UpRev Osiris standard license that came with the kit, but the UpRev website states that the standard license does not support boosted applications... Again, I appreciate all the help!!! The videos are at the end of the album, so you can skip past the build pictures to the end. https://goo.gl/photos/6wexurgWYzweWzYw7 |
You can limp the car around but driving isn't going to be fun with the Stillen tune. Mine ran absolutely terrible until I got my base tune from Seb and then, OH WOW!
Vacuum will be lower because you have a blower pushing air into the intake. Even at idle speed the SC will push more air than the engine would normally breathe in and that is why it will run crappy until you get the correct tune. Be patient and don't rush things at this point. Yes, the vacuum/boost line to the regulator will keep the pressure at the set point when boost builds. Your SC does sound different than mine. At least what I can hear through your video. They are noisy at low rpm. Once the hood is closed you can't hear it very much. |
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I have no intention of stomping on it or even driving it hard by any definition of the word. I want to test the driveability so that I can be somewhat confident in the ability of the car to make the drive up to Charlotte to SOHO for the tune. By running terrible, could you be more specific? Again, I have no intention of even breaking 3500 RPM if I can help it until a professional tune is done. Thank you! |
I've added some videos from the driveway.
Side note, I have a very noticeable vibration in reverse now :(. I don't know what is causing it yet and it gets notably louder if I'm turning the wheels hard... When the wife gets home, I'll get some more video for sound and may some diagnostics. Again, please just scroll to the end of the album for videos and sounds. Thanks!! https://goo.gl/photos/6wexurgWYzweWzYw7 |
I wouldn't drive at all on that tune. Not even a little
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I agree with ChaseZ. My car bucked and coughed and was barely drive able at all. I thought I had screwed something up. It was just the Stillen tune. It is not setup for the A2A configuration but Seb has a baseline tune that will have your car driving like stock once again except with a lot more throttle response and of course, power!
Check the clearance of the strut brace and the front throttle body. Mine was touching and required some 12mm spacers at the brace bolt locations to get rid of the interference. You should not have ANY belt slip cold or hot. It sounds to me that something is wrong with the SC. Did it turn freely before you installed it? Mine was a little tight but turned smoothly with just a little effort. The serpentine drive belt is designed to handle a lot of power (the SC at 7500 rpm should be about a 60 hp load). Take the serpentine belt off the jackshaft pulley and see if the SC is hard to turn. You should be able to turn it by hand. |
Something sounds BAD. You should only be able to hear the SC rattle at idle. Above idle the only sound you should hear is the intake whine. Did you check the SC oil? It should be red. It is very hard to check the level as the dipstick gets oil on it as you pull it out. Best to check it after the car sits for awhile.
Is this a new SC or a used one? Quote:
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I shot an email to SpecialtyZ for tuning options.
If I recall right, it spun freely. I will take the belt off again once the wife is home and can give me a hand locking the tensioner into place. I am a little nervous about the strut brace since I have a vented hood. It fit fine stock but I've gotta be careful as to just how far up I raise it. I was a little scared that one of the SC pulleys was going to rub, but when I shut the hood it didn't sound any different. Edit: Strut bar clearance is good with the Stillen kit spacers. |
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Oil is brand new. It is a used SC with about 12k miles on it. I verified it was empty of oil, put a full bottle into it and checked to ensure I had oil on the dipstick. |
That is the best way to verify the correct oil level. Drain and install a full bottle.
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Neighbor thinks it might be a bearing. I am torn on this one though because the seller said that he replaced all the bearings in the SC. With that said, he wasn't able to retest... Does anyone have any thoughts on this before I do the work to take the SC and replace the bearings? Or any tips/tricks/things I should do while I have the SC stripped if I have to replace the bearings? i.e. order different bearings from Vortech
If I do have to break it down to replace them, I do want to paint the volute. Any thoughts on that? |
I wonder why he replaced the bearings if the SC only has 12K miles on it. Sounds fishy to me.
You might want to talk to Vortec and see if they can replace the bearings and get the Si upgrade while they have it. Sorry you are having to deal with this issue this late in the build. Good luck! |
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A quote from the for sale post, "In its time it was 99% daily driver with one trip to the Dragon and one track day at Summit Point. After the track day it was louder than normal. When I got home I pulled it apart and one of the bearings had failed. Input bearing if I remember correctly. I replaced all bearings and seals and intended to reinstall but while everything was out I came across a new project and decided instead to sell the Z(it was too boring driving around with no boost!)." I feel confident in my ability to rebuild the SC and I'm looking at ordering the 928 high-speed rebuild kit for down the road should I find myself pulling the SC apart for repair. Edit: I shot Vortech an email asking for some assistance if they wouldn't mind providing it. |
Listening to one of the videos leads me to think that there may not be anything wrong with the SC and the other makes it sound not so normal.
Sounds like mine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obZlz3kMr0I Less like mine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3pHfwP-nn4 A few bad bearing vids: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz4J7lfA2sk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Rif4gSMQXU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhbzZLDP0cA I don't think the SC sounds like any of the bad bearing vids, but I also think it's a little louder than expected. Again, I've reached out to SpecialtyZ and Vortech as well to see if they have any insight into what, if anything, may be wrong with the SC unit. If you guys have any videos for me to compare mine to, I would appreciate it! |
It is going to be very difficult to diagnose a bad SC bearing using a smart phone video being that the "normal" sound is pretty rough sounding. What bothers me about this is that the sound doesn't seem to go away as the engine revs. It should stop the rattling noise as the rpms increase (gear backlash is removed).
While I was researching the Stillen kit, I did run across one person that had a bad bearing problem with a new SC. If I remember correctly it had the wrong bearings installed from the factory. It may have been JWillis72 on this forum. He has moved on to a C7 now but he might respond to a PM. |
What's up with these Vortech superchargers? They should be fairly bullet proof if they are operated as they should be. I had a ProCharger on my Mustang and it gave me no issues for 50k+ miles.
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I'm gonna crank the car up and rev a little to see what the sound does. I agree that smartphone video/sound is nowhere near ideal for diagnostic, but it's what I've got right now... I'm still waiting to see if Vortech will respond to my request for them to take a listen or ask for more data. There are definitely people out there experiencing this sound, so there has to be some explanation outside of conjecture and maybe Vortech knows. Hopefully.
The other thing, could it be the tune? Or the lack of tune, I should say. Could the rougher idle lead to excessive backlash, which is causing the sound to be louder? Again, I feel like I've heard many different stages of bearing failure, and this sound seems too catastrophic for the SC to continue functioning the way that it is (no excessive back and forth play in the pulleys). |
It Lives!!
Talked to Sebastian at SpecialtyZ and he was able to prepare and overnight me a tune before he headed out to Zdayz! I can't thank him enough! Ironically, he is literally flying 90% of the way to me, just as I'm about to go on vacation haha.
Flashed the tune and the car is definitely better! AFRs are higher than I'd like, but for the first iteration, that's to be expected. AFRs are about 14 WOTish, 16 cruising and 18 under light load, light throttle conditions. Pretty high... I can feel the engine pull timing around the 16-17 mark. I will officially start the data logging process when I get back from vacation, but I'm doing a few drives to get dome prelim data for Sebastian to work with when he gets back from Zdayz and I'm gone. I have a very small gas leak from the tophat. It's coming from the return penetration. I think it came loose during the final installation, so I'll have to pull it out some after I've run some gas out to tighten the connection. Fairly heavy gas smell in the cabin... My rattle can isn't much quieter, but that's to be expected haha. The vibration in reverse, I think, is coming from the intake being pressed against the hole that it runs through in the front passenger side and the direction the engine moves when in reverse pushes it more against the car, causing the vibration. I'll widen the hole a little more and that should solve the problem. I would say I'm about ready to be added to the FI builds! I don't have any numbers yet, but I'll post them up when I get a chance to get to a dyno. Things upcoming (probably once they fail haha): Headers (maybe) Level 10 tranny Forged internals (maybe stroke out to 4-4.2) SC impeller, bearing, and pulley upgrades CSF Radiator Oil Cooler The last thing... Stickers... My car is still a daily driver, I'm not rockin' any sponsorships, and I don't wanna make it look crazy, but at the same time, I'd like to give credit where credit is due. Did you guys put the stickers on? And if so, where? Thanks again for all your help and input!!!!! -Brett |
Just say no to stickers
NO stickers, none, not one!
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Upgrade to premium membership and rock the forum stickers. =)
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NO OIL COOLER AND YOU ARE RUNNING A SUPER CHARGER!!!!
You need to seriously rethink the upgrade priority! Get a oil cooler installed and do it now! The Z is already a hot car (in more ways than one) and adding boost will cause lots of additional heat. Get a 25 or 32 row cooler. I chose the Z1 kit because it uses the stock Nissan filter size. One less thing to remember over the years of ownership. Installation is very easy and should only take about three beers, I mean hours. |
Understand all, you're right. I found the deal on the SC kit which is why I picked it up. Next will be the oil cooler and I was thinking the cjm oil pan as well.
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Fuel Injectors: IMPORTANT
Here's a hiccup that's extremely dangerous and very avoidable if anyone reading this is planning on upgrading their injectors as well: Use the spacers!!!!!!!!!1!!!!111!!!!
I can't actually stress that enough. Somehow we installed the new injectors (ID1050Xs) without the supplied spacers and my #4 injector separated itself from the rail while driving down a busy road... Very awkward... Sitting at a stoplight, the car randomly starting idling extremely rough and then turned off. Upon attempting to restart the car, I noticed a puff of dark smoke from one of my drivers' side hood vents. Commence "Oh ****, Oh ****, Oh ****". Popped the hood, immediately smelled gas and noticed gas boiling on my intake runners under the fuel rails. Not having the fire extinguisher I do now, I did the only thing I could think of and I poured the contents of my water bottle onto the boiling mixture to cool it down, dilute it and try to wash some of it off. My neighbor towed me back to my house (only about 2 miles away) and I tore down the culprit area this morning to discover the above issue... I talked to Z1 about getting the spacers through them since I am ordering my oil cooler and pan through them as well in hopes that maybe they would include a set for me and I should hear back Monday from them. Until then, I get to do the one thing I hoped not to do again for a long, long while... Take off and re-install that damn Stillen intake manifold :shakes head: |
Must have some good karma saved up... No Fire. :tup:
Had a fuel leak on a couple of my cars in the past. When I first got my 914, the tank would leak until it was half full. Found the previous guy put a screw to hold the carpet in place. Screw went through the floor and into the tank. It was leaking from there. Leaking hoses in 2 other cars. Pretty lucky none of them ended up in fires. Just nasty headaches from the gasoline high. |
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