Cats Exploded. Suggestions?

MoulaZ · 02-14-2017, 12:32 AM

Took the car out for a short drive. Accelerated onto Freeway (WOT), at the top of 2nd car lost all power and struggled to rev, exhaust note immediately changed, went super deep and rumbly. Was blowing a bit of dust coloured smoke out the rear. Smell was very unusual, definitely not fuel or oil, sorta like breaking in a new exhaust system. Was getting check engine light flash when attempting to rev during those few seconds, but very oddly no error code actually stuck/stored when I checked a little later.

Pulled over and shut it off. Waited 5 minutes, started it up again, struggled to start the first time. Got it fired up and idled a little rough. Shut it off, waited 30 mins, fired it up again and it started almost completely normal, was able to rev resonably well but still very slight dust coloured smoke out the rear. Turned it off.

Got out and looked into the exhaust pipes and saw very fine dust-like sediment in the tips. Catalytic Temp Sensor used to give me 400-600c, now it's stuck on 28-32c. Got it towed home to be safe, dropped it off on the street in front of my house, fired it up and drove it into garage like nothing ever happened.

TL: DR = Fairly confident I've blown my stock Cats. Have OEM Cats. Need new Cats for Vortech SC setup. What are people going with? Heard HFC are just as worse as the Stock Cats. What about Test Pipes, what's the noise like with them? Rough prices or good suppliers? Any info appreciated.

Stilen SC @ ~10psi
Stock Headers
Stock Cats
Motordyne CBE

MoulaZ · 02-14-2017, 07:16 AM

Come on! Over 200 views in the Forced Induction Sub-group and no one is willing to share their FI & Cat setup or experiences?

SouthArk370Z · 02-14-2017, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoulaZ

Come on! Over 200 views in the Forced Induction Sub-group and no one is willing to share their FI & Cat setup or experiences?

Many have already shared that info. Search is your friend. If the site's search isn't working for you, try any of the big web search engines and add "site:the370z.com" to your search string.

Chuck33079 · 02-14-2017, 08:17 AM

With the stock Stillen setup, test pipes may cost you power. Maybe another set of OEM cats?

TopgunZ · 02-14-2017, 10:08 AM

My A2A kit should be there already no? It will make more power by freeing up the exhaust system. You will be making even more power now so any and all cats are a no go for you, unless you want to replace them again and again. If you want to reduce rasp/noise as much as possible then Motordyne ART pipes are your best option as they sound exactly the same as HFC's.

Jayhovah · 02-14-2017, 10:36 AM

Are test pipes out of the question?

bcfromfl · 02-14-2017, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopgunZ

so any and all cats are a no go for you, unless you want to replace them again and again.

I thought that cats helped build/maintain pressure in s/c systems, and are more or less a mandatory item? I understand the need for their removal in turbo applications.

Perhaps with the lower torque curve of s/c systems, we need to stick to a "theoretical" redline of maybe 6 grand or so -- anything higher than that is asking for trouble.

Jayhovah · 02-14-2017, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcfromfl

I thought that cats helped build/maintain pressure in s/c systems, and are more or less a mandatory item? I understand the need for their removal in turbo applications.

Perhaps with the lower torque curve of s/c systems, we need to stick to a "theoretical" redline of maybe 6 grand or so -- anything higher than that is asking for trouble.

I am, by no means, an expert in this stuff.. but I always thought the benefit of back-pressure wasn't really the pressure itself, but the increase in exhaust gas velocity in the lower rev range (which you want for scavenging purposes)... this is why you lose low-end torque if you go way oversized on your exhaust pipes. I think keeping the velocity in a good place is important for both NA and SC, but you have to factor in the big increase in exhaust volume when you go SC.

No matter how you slice it, the OEM cats are an enormous restriction and are not beneficial to making power. Otherwise, few people would buy HFCs or test pipes.

You might see more boost with OEM cats, that is only because flow through the motor is being restricted... without them, boost pressure likely reduces and power will absolutely increase. Often times this is a misunderstood concept and you will see people wonder why their car makes less power at the same boost pressure compared to another with a different setup.

Moving on, I have read many times that the heat, pressure, and volume of exhaust associated with going FI will destroy your OEM cats.. but there are plenty of HFC options for factory turbo charged cars. I have read on Subaru forums of folks having good success with some of the magnaflow universal cats... I would probably start by getting a cheap or second hand pair of test pipes and having a shop weld in a couple of those.. they aren't terribly expensive... I considered the same when I thought about keeping cats.. but I have test pipes now and am perfectly happy with them.

TopgunZ · 02-14-2017, 02:16 PM

If you simply MUST have cats then dont put them way up high by the exhaust manifold, they will get too hot there. The best thing is to put them downstream where they will keep cooled from air passing by them and not being bolted to a red hot manifold.

Mil.spec have been holding up the best.

Mil.Spec :: Universal

bcfromfl · 02-14-2017, 02:28 PM

Thanks for the good explanation!

Dbeckwith · 02-14-2017, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jayhovah

I am, by no means, an expert in this stuff.. but I always thought the benefit of back-pressure wasn't really the pressure itself, but the increase in exhaust gas velocity in the lower rev range (which you want for scavenging purposes)... this is why you lose low-end torque if you go way oversized on your exhaust pipes. I think keeping the velocity in a good place is important for both NA and SC, but you have to factor in the big increase in exhaust volume when you go SC.

No matter how you slice it, the OEM cats are an enormous restriction and are not beneficial to making power. Otherwise, few people would buy HFCs or test pipes.

You might see more boost with OEM cats, that is only because flow through the motor is being restricted... without them, boost pressure likely reduces and power will absolutely increase. Often times this is a misunderstood concept and you will see people wonder why their car makes less power at the same boost pressure compared to another with a different setup.

This was kind of my thought as well. With test pipes you may get lower boost, but total air flowing through the system could be higher.

I've got the stillen kit and resonated berk test pipes and love it. Just know that you'll want to get retuned with whatever you switch to.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

Optimiser · 02-14-2017, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoulaZ

Come on! Over 200 views in the Forced Induction Sub-group and no one is willing to share their FI & Cat setup or experiences?

I have had the Stillen HFC's that are connected to my Stillen headers for over a year now with the stock Stillen SC setup. I have also done a track day with this setup and so far no issues. Now that I have recently gone A to A setup I will be monitoring this more closely.

MoulaZ · 02-15-2017, 12:27 AM

A2A kit hasn't arrived, but both boxes have apparently landed in Australia. Might get them by the end of the week if I'm lucky.

And I reckon your idea is by far the best solution, moving the Cats further down. Can't be coincidence that on the Z32 TT platform I had before the Cats were also in the middle of the vehicle and not right after the dumps.

Currently have the Motordyne E370 CBE, and just so happens there's an ideal section for them, complete with OEM Heatsheats hah. Shouldn't be hard to undo a couple of V-band clamps, take those pipes to a nearby exhaust shop and get them welded in place. Photo attached.

Can't get Mil.Spec local, but Magnaflow gear which I've used before is also a great easily sourced local brand. Can't imagine each 100CPSI 3" IN/OUT Cat would cost more than 100-120 AUD each.

What I will need to get shipped is a decent pair of Test Pipes now... or Long Tube Headers if I wasn't scared at the thought of trying to undo the stock Headers in that tight arse space.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopgunZ

If you simply MUST have cats then dont put them way up high by the exhaust manifold, they will get too hot there. The best thing is to put them downstream where they will keep cooled from air passing by them and not being bolted to a red hot manifold.

Mil.spec have been holding up the best.

Mil.Spec :: Universal

MoulaZ · 02-15-2017, 12:40 AM

Pretty much spot on. Only thing I would add is to reinforce the fact that PSI does not directly equal power. PSI is a measure of pressure, or specifically resistance to flow. It does not measure flow. I see this mistake way too often. If you have a shitty flowing system, you're going to see higher PSI, but not necessarily more power.

Anytime you go Forced Inducted, you want to prioritize a good flowing exhaust, and yeah can't imagine Stock Cats designed for an NA application would help with that. The goal is to get more air in, and just as quickly get more air out.

I don't care if I lose a pound or two of boost, I care about what it'll do to the response and power curve if I free up the exhaust, and do it in a safe reliable manner for my application/circumstance, hence my plan above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jayhovah

I am, by no means, an expert in this stuff.. but I always thought the benefit of back-pressure wasn't really the pressure itself, but the increase in exhaust gas velocity in the lower rev range (which you want for scavenging purposes)... this is why you lose low-end torque if you go way oversized on your exhaust pipes. I think keeping the velocity in a good place is important for both NA and SC, but you have to factor in the big increase in exhaust volume when you go SC.

No matter how you slice it, the OEM cats are an enormous restriction and are not beneficial to making power. Otherwise, few people would buy HFCs or test pipes.

You might see more boost with OEM cats, that is only because flow through the motor is being restricted... without them, boost pressure likely reduces and power will absolutely increase. Often times this is a misunderstood concept and you will see people wonder why their car makes less power at the same boost pressure compared to another with a different setup.

Moving on, I have read many times that the heat, pressure, and volume of exhaust associated with going FI will destroy your OEM cats.. but there are plenty of HFC options for factory turbo charged cars. I have read on Subaru forums of folks having good success with some of the magnaflow universal cats... I would probably start by getting a cheap or second hand pair of test pipes and having a shop weld in a couple of those.. they aren't terribly expensive... I considered the same when I thought about keeping cats.. but I have test pipes now and am perfectly happy with them.

TopgunZ · 02-15-2017, 08:33 AM

Yeah that would be a perfect place to put them and your right, almost like it was designed for some there. I'd imagine any cat would live very long in that location. Glad you have an easy solution.

Now with your test pipe problem. If it were me I would just gut those cats and keep them on there. Hell, they are pretty much gutted already from the sounds of it..lol..

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoulaZ

A2A kit hasn't arrived, but both boxes have apparently landed in Australia. Might get them by the end of the week if I'm lucky.

And I reckon your idea is by far the best solution, moving the Cats further down. Can't be coincidence that on the Z32 TT platform I had before the Cats were also in the middle of the vehicle and not right after the dumps.

Currently have the Motordyne E370 CBE, and just so happens there's an ideal section for them, complete with OEM Heatsheats hah. Shouldn't be hard to undo a couple of V-band clamps, take those pipes to a nearby exhaust shop and get them welded in place. Photo attached.

Can't get Mil.Spec local, but Magnaflow gear which I've used before is also a great easily sourced local brand. Can't imagine each 100CPSI 3" IN/OUT Cat would cost more than 100-120 AUD each.

What I will need to get shipped is a decent pair of Test Pipes now... or Long Tube Headers if I wasn't scared at the thought of trying to undo the stock Headers in that tight arse space.

02-14-2017, 12:32 AM	#1 (permalink)
MoulaZ Base Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 230 Drives: '09 Z34 BP Turbo V2 Rep Power: 25	Cats Exploded. Suggestions? Took the car out for a short drive. Accelerated onto Freeway (WOT), at the top of 2nd car lost all power and struggled to rev, exhaust note immediately changed, went super deep and rumbly. Was blowing a bit of dust coloured smoke out the rear. Smell was very unusual, definitely not fuel or oil, sorta like breaking in a new exhaust system. Was getting check engine light flash when attempting to rev during those few seconds, but very oddly no error code actually stuck/stored when I checked a little later. Pulled over and shut it off. Waited 5 minutes, started it up again, struggled to start the first time. Got it fired up and idled a little rough. Shut it off, waited 30 mins, fired it up again and it started almost completely normal, was able to rev resonably well but still very slight dust coloured smoke out the rear. Turned it off. Got out and looked into the exhaust pipes and saw very fine dust-like sediment in the tips. Catalytic Temp Sensor used to give me 400-600c, now it's stuck on 28-32c. Got it towed home to be safe, dropped it off on the street in front of my house, fired it up and drove it into garage like nothing ever happened. TL: DR = Fairly confident I've blown my stock Cats. Have OEM Cats. Need new Cats for Vortech SC setup. What are people going with? Heard HFC are just as worse as the Stock Cats. What about Test Pipes, what's the noise like with them? Rough prices or good suppliers? Any info appreciated. Stilen SC @ ~10psi Stock Headers Stock Cats Motordyne CBE

02-14-2017, 08:17 AM	#4 (permalink)
Chuck33079 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Houston Posts: 12,265 Drives: 2011 370ztt Rep Power: 29539	With the stock Stillen setup, test pipes may cost you power. Maybe another set of OEM cats? __________________ 2011 MB Touring-Sport-6sp-Nav/GTM TT/FI TT TDX/JTran/Kosmic/Eibach/Hotchkis/SPC/CSF/RPS/SoThatsWhereAllMyMoneyWent

02-14-2017, 10:08 AM	#5 (permalink)
TopgunZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 2,651 Drives: 06 350Z , 09 370Z MT Rep Power: 6834	My A2A kit should be there already no? It will make more power by freeing up the exhaust system. You will be making even more power now so any and all cats are a no go for you, unless you want to replace them again and again. If you want to reduce rasp/noise as much as possible then Motordyne ART pipes are your best option as they sound exactly the same as HFC's. __________________ ROTREX SUPERCHARGER TUNER KITS - $6799/ CUSTOM STILLEN AIR TO AIR KITS -$2100/ 700+ WHP!! WWW.TOPGUNSPEEDWORKS.COM

02-14-2017, 02:16 PM	#9 (permalink)
TopgunZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 2,651 Drives: 06 350Z , 09 370Z MT Rep Power: 6834	If you simply MUST have cats then dont put them way up high by the exhaust manifold, they will get too hot there. The best thing is to put them downstream where they will keep cooled from air passing by them and not being bolted to a red hot manifold. Mil.spec have been holding up the best. Mil.Spec :: Universal JJ's370z likes this. __________________ ROTREX SUPERCHARGER TUNER KITS - $6799/ CUSTOM STILLEN AIR TO AIR KITS -$2100/ 700+ WHP!! WWW.TOPGUNSPEEDWORKS.COM

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02-14-2017, 07:16 AM	#2 (permalink)
MoulaZ Base Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 230 Drives: '09 Z34 BP Turbo V2 Rep Power: 25	Come on! Over 200 views in the Forced Induction Sub-group and no one is willing to share their FI & Cat setup or experiences?

02-14-2017, 02:28 PM	#10 (permalink)
bcfromfl Enthusiast Member Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Youngstown, FL Posts: 256 Drives: 2015 PW Nismo 6MT Rep Power: 9	Thanks for the good explanation!