RJ MFG Supercharger kit Feeler...

bcfromfl · 03-03-2017, 06:32 PM

I just wanted to say that whatever comes of all this, this thread is really bringing up a lot of good points and is a good read, if nothing else!

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullitt5897

What a lot of people don't understand is that the power delivery is completely different. You have more power under the curve in the PD supercharger setup and that at the end of the day wins races!

This is my preference when considering s/c vs. TT. Whenever I look at a dyno sheet, I don't look at the overall numbers, or what is happening on the right side of the graph. I'm looking at the left side, and the linear nature of the torque curve. That extra 500rpms in the 2000-2500 range means everything in terms of response and fun, instead of having to wait more towards 2800-3000.

I would much rather enjoy blipping the throttle at lower rpms and having predictable torque, than a turbo begging higher rpms and a speed that can't legally (or safely) be used in more than a handful of locations. I know lots of guys love this rush, but I fancy a more balanced machine.

zer099 · 03-03-2017, 07:23 PM

If I recall, back in December when this started rolling there was talk of the system being a modular price structure. I was thinking base price for the necessities (SC kit, Whipple, cogs, IC, and heat exchanger and pump), then add on what you need/want (tune, injectors of choice, fuel pump(s), pulley (still presuming it is trying to be made to work with the ATI), and things like that). Thus, making the price somewhat flexible especially for some that already have some the things in the kit and just need the base kit and their tuner to sit in the car. Now the kit is coming with intakes; 75% of use have those already, I thought the kit was being developed to avoid things like that. Is this still what we are looking at in the end, a modular price point, or more of a $10k stage 1 take it or leave it, $12k (random guess) stage 1.5 take it or leave it, and so on plus the price of a hood?

I realize tone on the internet can be mistaken, and I mean no anger or unhappiness; just since numbers are starting to be thrown around I wanted to understand if this was still on the table.

bullitt5897 · 03-03-2017, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zer099

If I recall, back in December when this started rolling there was talk of the system being a modular price structure. I was thinking base price for the necessities (SC kit, Whipple, cogs, IC, and heat exchanger and pump), then add on what you need/want (tune, injectors of choice, fuel pump(s), pulley (still presuming it is trying to be made to work with the ATI), and things like that). Thus, making the price somewhat flexible especially for some that already have some the things in the kit and just need the base kit and their tuner to sit in the car. Now the kit is coming with intakes; 75% of use have those already, I thought the kit was being developed to avoid things like that. Is this still what we are looking at in the end, a modular price point, or more of a $10k stage 1 take it or leave it, $12k (random guess) stage 1.5 take it or leave it, and so on plus the price of a hood?

I realize tone on the internet can be mistaken, and I mean no anger or unhappiness; just since numbers are starting to be thrown around I wanted to understand if this was still on the table.

There is often more interest in a turn key solution but if someone wants to provide their own parts a tuner option will be available. The pricing on that won't be cut and dry since people can add or remove parts as needed.

Jayhovah · 03-03-2017, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullitt5897

Their stage 1 kits will come with intakes. Or you can use your stillen or as I prefer the Admin Tuning intakes.

Yes you can go turbo. Honestly the only well designed twin turbo kit is the fast intentions kit. A fast intentions kit is going to run you $15k+ installed and tuned for a base kit... That is significantly more than the RJM kit plus they hit two different markets as brought up by many in here already.

What a lot of people don't understand is that the power delivery is completely different. You have more power under the curve in the PD supercharger setup and that at the end of the day wins races!

Makes sense about the power delivery... Can't say I agree with you about FI making the only well designed TT kit.... but it looks like I have already derailed this thread.

jchammond · 03-03-2017, 11:18 PM

Don't want to swap my CAI or exhaust...that's why I been following this thread.
I can fab a cowl induction hood scoop.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

daveb91 · 03-04-2017, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcfromfl

I'm not one to condemn innovation, and I'm interested to see where this project goes...although the potential hood issues (and impracticality of pleasing a variety of different Z owners) may keep this within a narrow niche.

I've pondered why turbos seems to be a more popular performance option for this car than s/c, and I think it's just a raw numbers thing of more hp. If you enjoy competitive drag racing, then that's another reason to go turbo. But if the car is a daily driver, or otherwise just gets used on public roads, s/c is clearly the better choice, with its superior power band, and as was mentioned above, closer in feel to a NA engine. I owned a turbo car years ago, and did not like the power band.

I know there are also enthusiasts who like things LOUD and to announce what's under the hood audibly, but there are also others (me included) who like to remain anonymous, and not annoy the neighbors!

I would say performance wise...its a great option...deal killer will ge the hood and I dont think I will be alone with that opinion. Dont have a problem with price just the damn hood thing.

cooltoy · 03-04-2017, 09:49 PM

Unless they create a kit to modify the OEM hood at a lower price (as well as the full hood for those who want one).

phunk · 03-04-2017, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

and a pd will have a whine.

This Whipple unit doesnt really whine. At wide open you cant hear them.

phunk · 03-04-2017, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcfromfl

closer in feel to a NA engine.

A PD produces a dyno graph that looks like a NA engine, but driving around it does not feel like NA at all. There is a re-circulation valve in the intake manifold that vents the positive pressure back to the SC inlet so that you are not running boost while at part throttle. This valve VERY DISTINCTLY and abruptly closes when you give the engine enough load (throttle), creating a big surge in power and exhaust volume. Its actually REALLY COOL and fun, however its anything but NA-Like (if you ask me, and nobody did).

jchammond · 03-05-2017, 03:05 AM

At the local speed shop this past week; looking at some nice Harwood scoops.....I have no problem with a hole in the hood & a nice scoop-as looking low profile kinda goes out the window when you're sporting 345's on the rear.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

daveb91 · 03-05-2017, 04:49 PM

I didnt notice

TopgunZ · 03-06-2017, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullitt5897

I understand where you are coming from. But lets break this down... Not to be combative but to critically look at the argument.

Stillen kit = $6500 new *This is the tuner kit and thus only comes as a bare minimum. This isn't an apples to apples comparison. More accurately would be to compare turn key to turn key kits Stillen starting at $7100 on sale from $8200
A2A w/ Tial = $1700
Ecutek and Map sensor = $400 *More like $450 after all said and done just for parts... Now you have to factor in a retune ~$800-$1000 for a decent tuner
Si trim = $400 *For the Si trim now you have to factor in labor... so there is a couple more hundred dollars added.
9psi pulley = $120
Return kit = $750 *now you have to ditch the fuel system from the stillen kit to upgrade to one that will handle 500+whp... That means bigger injectors and return system... More than $1000+

Total = Just under $10k * A realistic total would be well into the $12k+ range... And a hacked up kit to make it do what they promised from the get go!

RJM kit = for sake of argument $9,999.00 MSRP *Turn Key! no changes needed no upgrades needed... simplicity in its finest.

OPTIONAL:
Hood = ~$600 (FRP) Optional yeah you can buy the hood or cut the factory one...
Shipping for hood = ~$180
Paint hood = $400 to $700
Look of hood = I am doing the design so it isn't going to be half assed or ugly. If I wouldn't put it on my car you can be sure I wont send it to molds...

Here are some other things you guys haven't taken into account...
-Cost of manufacturing. (I can tell you the RJM kit costs probably double if not more than the stillen kit to make.)
-Quality components: stillen uses cast parts where as RJM is all billet. Also the water pump alone for the RJM kit costs $500 and has a life of over 3400+ hours!!! It will last longer than the water pump in your motor! think about that... The guys at RJM want the kit to last longer than your car!
-Ease of installation RJM wants the everyday DIY guy to be able to install this in his garage.
-As you mentioned Scalability. Yes they could have built a cheaper kit. but that leaves you in the same situation as GAMMA and STILLEN buying all these parts to make them do what they advertised to do. RJM are a bunch of VQ owners they know what you guys want and I can tell you the difference between stage 1 and stage 2 is not much $$$... They built this kit for you to grow into not have to replace everything...

I know this because I am on their development calls and meetings. I am often the voice of the forums and if you guys bring something up it is most definitely heard in the development meetings. They have them every week... Yes the hood is a concern and they have been 3D printing like mad men to mock everything up. They have talked about adjustable motor mounts or new motor mounts but that goes down the slippery slope of adding more cost overall... Because now the every day guy cant install it in his garage... Honestly from all the input they have taken plus the preliminary flow testing you guys are going to be pleasantly surprised.

Are you saying you dont have to tune the RJM kit? So you dont have to add your $800 to $1000 to it? and come on, $800 to $1000 for a tune? Who does your tuning, Jesus himself?

Jayhovah · 03-06-2017, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopgunZ

Are you saying you dont have to tune the RJM kit? So you dont have to add your $800 to $1000 to it? and come on, $800 to $1000 for a tune? Who does your tuning, Jesus himself?

I spent 850 on my tune at JTRAN - but that included an Ecutek license.

milkcow500 · 03-06-2017, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopgunZ

Are you saying you dont have to tune the RJM kit? So you dont have to add your $800 to $1000 to it? and come on, $800 to $1000 for a tune? Who does your tuning, Jesus himself?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullitt5897

I understand where you are coming from. But lets break this down... Not to be combative but to critically look at the argument.

Stillen kit = $6500 new *This is the tuner kit and thus only comes as a bare minimum. This isn't an apples to apples comparison. More accurately would be to compare turn key to turn key kits Stillen starting at $7100 on sale from $8200
A2A w/ Tial = $1700
Ecutek and Map sensor = $400 *More like $450 after all said and done just for parts... Now you have to factor in a retune ~$800-$1000 for a decent tuner
Si trim = $400 *For the Si trim now you have to factor in labor... so there is a couple more hundred dollars added.
9psi pulley = $120
Return kit = $750 *now you have to ditch the fuel system from the stillen kit to upgrade to one that will handle 500+whp... That means bigger injectors and return system... More than $1000+

Total = Just under $10k * A realistic total would be well into the $12k+ range... And a hacked up kit to make it do what they promised from the get go!

RJM kit = for sake of argument $9,999.00 MSRP *Turn Key! no changes needed no upgrades needed... simplicity in its finest.

OPTIONAL:
Hood = ~$600 (FRP) Optional yeah you can buy the hood or cut the factory one...
Shipping for hood = ~$180
Paint hood = $400 to $700
Look of hood = I am doing the design so it isn't going to be half assed or ugly. If I wouldn't put it on my car you can be sure I wont send it to molds...

Here are some other things you guys haven't taken into account...
-Cost of manufacturing. (I can tell you the RJM kit costs probably double if not more than the stillen kit to make.)
-Quality components: stillen uses cast parts where as RJM is all billet. Also the water pump alone for the RJM kit costs $500 and has a life of over 3400+ hours!!! It will last longer than the water pump in your motor! think about that... The guys at RJM want the kit to last longer than your car!
-Ease of installation RJM wants the everyday DIY guy to be able to install this in his garage.
-As you mentioned Scalability. Yes they could have built a cheaper kit. but that leaves you in the same situation as GAMMA and STILLEN buying all these parts to make them do what they advertised to do. RJM are a bunch of VQ owners they know what you guys want and I can tell you the difference between stage 1 and stage 2 is not much $$$... They built this kit for you to grow into not have to replace everything...

I know this because I am on their development calls and meetings. I am often the voice of the forums and if you guys bring something up it is most definitely heard in the development meetings. They have them every week... Yes the hood is a concern and they have been 3D printing like mad men to mock everything up. They have talked about adjustable motor mounts or new motor mounts but that goes down the slippery slope of adding more cost overall... Because now the every day guy cant install it in his garage... Honestly from all the input they have taken plus the preliminary flow testing you guys are going to be pleasantly surprised.

Road tune - ~300
Dyno tune - ~500
Flex fuel tune - ~800

You can actually grab a brand new stillen kit for under their asking price if you make a few calls (~5500).

You can also do what the Q50 guys are doing and hit 500whp on the stock kit with just upgraded injectors, frozen boost upgrade, and air filter replacement.

BP kit is still bae though, but no love for 7at.

TopgunZ · 03-06-2017, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkcow500

Road tune - ~300
Dyno tune - ~500
Flex fuel tune - ~800

You can actually grab a brand new stillen kit for under their asking price if you make a few calls (~5500).

You can also do what the Q50 guys are doing and hit 500whp on the stock kit with just upgraded injectors, frozen boost upgrade, and air filter replacement.

BP kit is still bae though, but no love for 7at.

I wonder if the Q50 guys are going to chime in here in about a year when they fry their piston rings or worse. Do any Q50 guys track their sedans? Then less...

Is there even one guy measuring his IAT's after the intercooler (if you can call it that) in the manifold?

Anyways...back on topic.

View Poll Results: What kind of Supercharger kit would you like us to make?
Rotrex C38 based system	54	23.79%
Vortech/Procharger Based Kit	40	17.62%
Whipple Positive Displacement Roots Kit	109	48.02%
I dont want a supercharger.	24	10.57%
Voters: 227. You may not vote on this poll

03-03-2017, 07:23 PM	#467 (permalink)
zer099 Base Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Dawsonville, GA Posts: 88 Drives: '98 200sx; '09 G37x Rep Power: 10	If I recall, back in December when this started rolling there was talk of the system being a modular price structure. I was thinking base price for the necessities (SC kit, Whipple, cogs, IC, and heat exchanger and pump), then add on what you need/want (tune, injectors of choice, fuel pump(s), pulley (still presuming it is trying to be made to work with the ATI), and things like that). Thus, making the price somewhat flexible especially for some that already have some the things in the kit and just need the base kit and their tuner to sit in the car. Now the kit is coming with intakes; 75% of use have those already, I thought the kit was being developed to avoid things like that. Is this still what we are looking at in the end, a modular price point, or more of a $10k stage 1 take it or leave it, $12k (random guess) stage 1.5 take it or leave it, and so on plus the price of a hood? I realize tone on the internet can be mistaken, and I mean no anger or unhappiness; just since numbers are starting to be thrown around I wanted to understand if this was still on the table. 370Z-GUY likes this. __________________ 2009 G37X \| 326 AWHP \| 264 AWTQ

03-03-2017, 11:18 PM	#470 (permalink)
jchammond A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Carolina Age: 58 Posts: 15,204 Drives: 13’ 370Z TS 7A/T Rep Power: 2684394	Don't want to swap my CAI or exhaust...that's why I been following this thread. I can fab a cowl induction hood scoop. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ MazWorx built long block \| FI-TT-100 Stage 2.75 \| IPT built 7A/T http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...s-musings.html

03-04-2017, 09:49 PM	#472 (permalink)
cooltoy Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Calgary Posts: 13,971 Drives: 14 PW 370Z S/T MT Rep Power: 243722	Unless they create a kit to modify the OEM hood at a lower price (as well as the full hood for those who want one). __________________ Member of kenchan's "photoshopped mods" and "proper offsets" gang.

03-05-2017, 03:05 AM	#475 (permalink)
jchammond A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Carolina Age: 58 Posts: 15,204 Drives: 13’ 370Z TS 7A/T Rep Power: 2684394	At the local speed shop this past week; looking at some nice Harwood scoops.....I have no problem with a hole in the hood & a nice scoop-as looking low profile kinda goes out the window when you're sporting 345's on the rear. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ MazWorx built long block \| FI-TT-100 Stage 2.75 \| IPT built 7A/T http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...s-musings.html

03-05-2017, 04:49 PM	#476 (permalink)
daveb91 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Vienna WV Posts: 302 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 25	I didnt notice EZT and jchammond like this.

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