Forced Induction Reliability

Staples · 07-10-2012, 08:38 PM

>> Get Car Properly Tuned Whether N/A or FI
>> Run race gas or Methanol
>> Drop Cylinder Temps
>>???
>> Profit

Plenty of stock internal Zs track their car without issues, boosted or not. Whoever is "pulling" statistics like these, needs to get their facts straight.

Mr.Squeeze · 07-10-2012, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB-370z

We clearly have a few dip$hits that dont know what they are talking about. Pulling fake made up on the fly statistics out of their a$$.

Couldnt have said it any better my self

JB-370z · 07-10-2012, 08:55 PM

Since we are pulling stuff out our a$$ I figure my 25k boosted miles counts as a half a lap around the race track with no issues. When I hit 50k which should = 1 lap, I will let yall know if its track ready.

cossie1600 · 07-10-2012, 11:04 PM

Yeah you are right I don't spend enough time at the track, but then somehow there is a youtube video of me running a STOCK 350z (with brake pads) passing a heavily modified 350z with APS turbo at VIR (HP track). Given that he is a good driver and I have no idea what I am doing, is it okay to blame it on the car?!?

VIR Full Course - November 20th - Adam's 350Z - 2 of 2 - YouTube (start @ 1:43)

Is that not enough? How about an angle from a stock 350z passing a turbocharged 350z? 1106_VIR_350z_Lap_Behind_350z.mpg - YouTube
I think I could have gone faster if I didn't have a student in the car and I spend too much time explaining to him why the other 350 didn't move down the straightaway.

If that is not enough, how about results from a time trial where two turbocharged VQ running 600HP lost to my stock 400HP Corvette running on OEM run-flats in my class? To your point, there was a G35 in the modified class with a turbo that beat me by 5 sec, but it sure is nice to be a shop car and run brand new slicks while I am stuck on run flats.

Anyway, you are absolutely right that you can run a FI car at the track. You just have to know what you are doing (most people don't)and prepare to spend some major coins. By the time you are done with it, you will realize you can be driving a faster car to start with. That is assuming the car can finish 4 sessions at the track.

(I made the mistake once it costed me $20K, never again!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by theDreamer

I have spent plenty of time at the track, I just have yet to run my boosted Z.
Plenty of friends with 350z who are boosted who run all day without issues, only bringing themselves and some tools. Hate to break it to you, but it is not some magical fairy dust you need to run a boosted Z car at the track. It just takes knowledge and prep (and some money) and you are fine, nothing much more than running a NA Z around all day.

Maybe you should spent sometime at the track with a few boost Z owners and see how they do?

scruffydog · 08-27-2013, 07:02 PM

I jumped into this thread a little late so I want to speak from my perspective which maybe somewhat subjective.
If you would want to track the car, it's probably best not to deal with the headaches of a force induction. The 370z is designed to be a NA from the drawing board if you want to make it a force induction and expect it to last at the tracks, you're talking about almost swapping or redesigning majority of the mechanical components. Not that it's not possible, but to Cossie's point (in which I strongly agree), with that money, you're better off upgrading to another car with that money from the get go.

I am aware that there are a few people that have track their TT/SC 370z before, but the only ones that claim they don't have issues have either not pushed their cars hard enough, or long enough under stress. I track my car heavily and I'm already finding myself replacing/upgrading parts as a NA car. The 370z engines tend to run pretty hot, I'm afraid even after upgrading the radiator, vented hood, race oil cooler, with a NA if you're pushing it, you're already going to be at the high end temp of where you want to be. With a FI car, you might not be able to run your car hard throughout a proper 20 min session all day long.
When a car is designed with a FI right out of the box, the Design Engineers have done hard test at the tracks with that setup to ensure it works properly. From that these series of test, they could add necessary cooling components, beef up the thickness of shafts if broken, make stronger components, add air ducts, oil cooler, etc which are easier to do at the design stage.
I've tracked a Ferrari 458, McLaren MP4-12C, Lamborghini Aventador, Nissan GT-R at the track and even super cars such as these overheats after 5 mins of constant abuse. Esp the McLaren MP4-12C & the Lamborghini Aventador. Under the 110 degree weather, I did 5 laps and had to pull in for a cool down. That is why they have track versions of them that has better cooling ducts, etc which allows it to handle the abuse longer.
Another example would be the 450WHP Crawford's Turbo Subaru BRZ. Sure they guy claim they could easily make a lot of HP from this engine, but they practically had to rebuilt the whole engine to ensure the engine could handle that kind of HP. Also, they broke a few half shafts in the process of building this car. So long story short, I say it's not worth it if you were to track your car unless you are ready to put a lot of money and time into re-designing the car. And by then, you can probably already be able to buy a like new used Porsche. (Which to OP's pt, won't be a bigger car but with the higher HP you wanted).

In the end the question is how much tracking are you going to be doing? I started off with 4 times a year and now finding myself doing 6 times a year and more as years went on. The more exposure and experience I gained, the harder I pushed and found more weaker links in the 370z. Another thing I can validate too is hardly do I find people who mod their cars that were originally NA to a FI have spent enough time to drive it well. I've seen ton of people that has FI cars which can't seem to put that power down to their advantage. You're better off spending that money on seat time or a car that was designed with more HP.
But if you're just driving it on the streets/freeway as a DD or just casual/spirited weekend mountain driving; if you probably built your FI 370z and takes good care of the proper maintenance, you probably can do just fine even if you push hard on it every now and then.

Hope this was helpful.

elperuano · 08-27-2013, 08:44 PM

Holy thread bump.

SPOHN · 08-28-2013, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scruffydog

I am aware that there are a few people that have track their TT/SC 370z before, but the only ones that claim they don't have issues have either not pushed their cars hard enough, or long enough under stress.

This. Of the people here I know of it. That's not the case. Not saying you are but you can't look at FI as only high HP levels. Most of these guys turn it down to lower levels. Just looking for an edge. Thus better reliability on some level.

Baer383 · 08-28-2013, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPOHN

Most of these guys turn it down to lower levels.

Not me!!!

Mr&Mrs · 08-28-2013, 08:31 PM

Off the track topic but.....My buddy that doesnt post on the forum has over 70k miles on his car, somewhere around the last 20k have been boosted with a Stage 2 GTM kit. No problems at all and he is not easy on her. That gives me a nice comfort level considering im at 24k and only about half of that has been boosted.

Chuck33079 · 08-28-2013, 09:13 PM

Reliability is only going to be as good as the tune, install and supporting mods. You can't make blanket statements like "FI is unreliable on a track".

Vnismo370z · 09-08-2013, 10:52 AM

Alright lots of good info out here. As far as what has been said
1.) Track your car first get a feel for it, find it's (and your) weakness'
2.) Improve on weakness' (brakes, OIL TEMPS, TRACTION)
3.) Talk to gear heads out there; some of them even race their DD's and could give you better advice on not only prep and maintenance, also they could give actual advice based on their experience on the track. Given that most of them live in the area their cars are tuned for the weather, altitude, some may even have a traffic tune (or Economy mode) tuned in with their Osiris...
4.) Figure out all is said and done, is it really worth it. (I am still trying to figure out wither I want a dyno queen or a reliable track car/DD.)
5.) KEEP FUNDS IN BANK FOR WHEN YOUR CAR BLOWS UP!!! (Cause it will on a stock block; boost is addicting, especially if you have a boost controller, and the "Itch")

All in all, it's up to you. As I typed all of this I realized that I may not F.I. my ride, because (in the words of Dethklok) "I want to keep my money".

Chuck33079 · 09-08-2013, 11:17 AM

It will blow up on a stock block? You know that for a fact? What are you basing that on? Do you have any firsthand experience with a boosted 370? I guess all of the guys with turbo setups on stock blocks who have thousands and thousands of miles on their cars don't count for anything. Reliability is all in the supporting mods, tune and install. Don't spread misinformation.

Vnismo370z · 09-08-2013, 01:10 PM

Never boosted a 370z. However, I have seen many a boosted cars, blow a motor, spin a bearing, whatever on their STOCK blocks at the track, also I have seen a busted input shaft ripped apart. So, Chuck33079 you're absolutely right, however, why not have some extra cash laying around for emergencies related to your car and whatever problems may come from pushing its limits?

Chuck33079 · 09-08-2013, 01:14 PM

I completely agree you need an emergency motor fund. I just take issue with people saying the motor will blow like its some kind of inevitability.

07-10-2012, 08:38 PM	#46 (permalink)
Staples Track Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 546 Drives: '08 Infiniti G37s Rep Power: 16	>> Get Car Properly Tuned Whether N/A or FI >> Run race gas or Methanol >> Drop Cylinder Temps >>??? >> Profit Plenty of stock internal Zs track their car without issues, boosted or not. Whoever is "pulling" statistics like these, needs to get their facts straight. __________________ '08 Infiniti G37s - Forced Induction Fed

07-10-2012, 08:55 PM	#48 (permalink)
JB-370z A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Houston, Tx Posts: 1,859 Drives: Stage 2 Twin Turbos Rep Power: 19	Since we are pulling stuff out our a$$ I figure my 25k boosted miles counts as a half a lap around the race track with no issues. When I hit 50k which should = 1 lap, I will let yall know if its track ready. __________________ ll Baker Tuning ll GTM ll Powerhouse Amuse ll HKS ll Up-Rev ll iForged ll AP Racing ll Pioneer ll SPL ll Bride ll Top Secret ll OS Giken ll GTM Stage 2 Twin Turboed 370z (First in Texas, Thanks To Baker Tuning) Last edited by JB-370z; 07-10-2012 at 09:05 PM.

08-27-2013, 07:02 PM	#50 (permalink)
scruffydog A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Nor Cal Posts: 1,113 Drives: with his eyes close Rep Power: 717	I jumped into this thread a little late so I want to speak from my perspective which maybe somewhat subjective. If you would want to track the car, it's probably best not to deal with the headaches of a force induction. The 370z is designed to be a NA from the drawing board if you want to make it a force induction and expect it to last at the tracks, you're talking about almost swapping or redesigning majority of the mechanical components. Not that it's not possible, but to Cossie's point (in which I strongly agree), with that money, you're better off upgrading to another car with that money from the get go. I am aware that there are a few people that have track their TT/SC 370z before, but the only ones that claim they don't have issues have either not pushed their cars hard enough, or long enough under stress. I track my car heavily and I'm already finding myself replacing/upgrading parts as a NA car. The 370z engines tend to run pretty hot, I'm afraid even after upgrading the radiator, vented hood, race oil cooler, with a NA if you're pushing it, you're already going to be at the high end temp of where you want to be. With a FI car, you might not be able to run your car hard throughout a proper 20 min session all day long. When a car is designed with a FI right out of the box, the Design Engineers have done hard test at the tracks with that setup to ensure it works properly. From that these series of test, they could add necessary cooling components, beef up the thickness of shafts if broken, make stronger components, add air ducts, oil cooler, etc which are easier to do at the design stage. I've tracked a Ferrari 458, McLaren MP4-12C, Lamborghini Aventador, Nissan GT-R at the track and even super cars such as these overheats after 5 mins of constant abuse. Esp the McLaren MP4-12C & the Lamborghini Aventador. Under the 110 degree weather, I did 5 laps and had to pull in for a cool down. That is why they have track versions of them that has better cooling ducts, etc which allows it to handle the abuse longer. Another example would be the 450WHP Crawford's Turbo Subaru BRZ. Sure they guy claim they could easily make a lot of HP from this engine, but they practically had to rebuilt the whole engine to ensure the engine could handle that kind of HP. Also, they broke a few half shafts in the process of building this car. So long story short, I say it's not worth it if you were to track your car unless you are ready to put a lot of money and time into re-designing the car. And by then, you can probably already be able to buy a like new used Porsche. (Which to OP's pt, won't be a bigger car but with the higher HP you wanted). In the end the question is how much tracking are you going to be doing? I started off with 4 times a year and now finding myself doing 6 times a year and more as years went on. The more exposure and experience I gained, the harder I pushed and found more weaker links in the 370z. Another thing I can validate too is hardly do I find people who mod their cars that were originally NA to a FI have spent enough time to drive it well. I've seen ton of people that has FI cars which can't seem to put that power down to their advantage. You're better off spending that money on seat time or a car that was designed with more HP. But if you're just driving it on the streets/freeway as a DD or just casual/spirited weekend mountain driving; if you probably built your FI 370z and takes good care of the proper maintenance, you probably can do just fine even if you push hard on it every now and then. Hope this was helpful. __________________ Magnetic Black 2010 370z Scruffydog's Journal

08-28-2013, 08:31 PM	#54 (permalink)
Mr&Mrs A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: Tampa Posts: 4,207 Drives: RZ34 Rep Power: 31940	Off the track topic but.....My buddy that doesnt post on the forum has over 70k miles on his car, somewhere around the last 20k have been boosted with a Stage 2 GTM kit. No problems at all and he is not easy on her. That gives me a nice comfort level considering im at 24k and only about half of that has been boosted. SPOHN likes this. __________________ Project Z <--Click - Check out the link too many mods to list!

08-28-2013, 09:13 PM	#55 (permalink)
Chuck33079 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Houston Posts: 12,265 Drives: 2011 370ztt Rep Power: 29539	Reliability is only going to be as good as the tune, install and supporting mods. You can't make blanket statements like "FI is unreliable on a track". SPOHN, elperuano and critical like this. __________________ 2011 MB Touring-Sport-6sp-Nav/GTM TT/FI TT TDX/JTran/Kosmic/Eibach/Hotchkis/SPC/CSF/RPS/SoThatsWhereAllMyMoneyWent

08-27-2013, 08:44 PM	#51 (permalink)
elperuano A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Southwest FL Posts: 1,374 Drives: G37S Rep Power: 29	Holy thread bump.

09-08-2013, 10:52 AM	#56 (permalink)
Vnismo370z Enthusiast Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Tacoma, Wa Posts: 387 Drives: '15 370z PG Sport Rep Power: 14	Alright lots of good info out here. As far as what has been said 1.) Track your car first get a feel for it, find it's (and your) weakness' 2.) Improve on weakness' (brakes, OIL TEMPS, TRACTION) 3.) Talk to gear heads out there; some of them even race their DD's and could give you better advice on not only prep and maintenance, also they could give actual advice based on their experience on the track. Given that most of them live in the area their cars are tuned for the weather, altitude, some may even have a traffic tune (or Economy mode) tuned in with their Osiris... 4.) Figure out all is said and done, is it really worth it. (I am still trying to figure out wither I want a dyno queen or a reliable track car/DD.) 5.) KEEP FUNDS IN BANK FOR WHEN YOUR CAR BLOWS UP!!! (Cause it will on a stock block; boost is addicting, especially if you have a boost controller, and the "Itch") All in all, it's up to you. As I typed all of this I realized that I may not F.I. my ride, because (in the words of Dethklok) "I want to keep my money". __________________ starting over

09-08-2013, 11:17 AM	#57 (permalink)
Chuck33079 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Houston Posts: 12,265 Drives: 2011 370ztt Rep Power: 29539	Forced Induction Reliability It will blow up on a stock block? You know that for a fact? What are you basing that on? Do you have any firsthand experience with a boosted 370? I guess all of the guys with turbo setups on stock blocks who have thousands and thousands of miles on their cars don't count for anything. Reliability is all in the supporting mods, tune and install. Don't spread misinformation. SPOHN, Baer383 and elperuano like this. __________________ 2011 MB Touring-Sport-6sp-Nav/GTM TT/FI TT TDX/JTran/Kosmic/Eibach/Hotchkis/SPC/CSF/RPS/SoThatsWhereAllMyMoneyWent

09-08-2013, 01:10 PM	#58 (permalink)
Vnismo370z Enthusiast Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Tacoma, Wa Posts: 387 Drives: '15 370z PG Sport Rep Power: 14	Never boosted a 370z. However, I have seen many a boosted cars, blow a motor, spin a bearing, whatever on their STOCK blocks at the track, also I have seen a busted input shaft ripped apart. So, Chuck33079 you're absolutely right, however, why not have some extra cash laying around for emergencies related to your car and whatever problems may come from pushing its limits? __________________ starting over

09-08-2013, 01:14 PM	#59 (permalink)
Chuck33079 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Houston Posts: 12,265 Drives: 2011 370ztt Rep Power: 29539	I completely agree you need an emergency motor fund. I just take issue with people saying the motor will blow like its some kind of inevitability. Vnismo370z likes this. __________________ 2011 MB Touring-Sport-6sp-Nav/GTM TT/FI TT TDX/JTran/Kosmic/Eibach/Hotchkis/SPC/CSF/RPS/SoThatsWhereAllMyMoneyWent

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