Air Intake Temps- Stillen SC

ChaseZ

My mock up experiences were rather similar. Surprised you can stuff it with that valve on though - I used the same bottom mounting points and I just barely clear it as it is, no way I'd fit the valve in there too.

I ended up mounting my oil cooler inverted and pushed back on the drivers side. Could probably clear fans if they were narrow but will see how it goes without them first.

MoulaZ

Looks like you kept the tow hook, wouldn't that limit even more air reaching that Exchanger being mounted off to the side like that?

I just hacked the damn thing off.

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ChaseZ

Need the hook for track days or they won't let me on.

The fangs are bigger on the 2016 fascia, this pic isn't great to show it but runs right to the edge of the cooler. Was a fair bit of messing around to get just the right tolerances to squeeze it and keep the took hook mount.

The different fascias might be the difference in fitting that vale or not too.

MoulaZ

Ahhh, that's the reason then. Yea you have the post-2013 front bar. No idea on the dimensions of that. Interesting about the tow hook and tracking. I don't track so guess I shouldn't miss it.... hopefully, hah.

BOLIO 671

This is a very good idea...the biggest problem with the Stillen kit really is the heat exchanger in the manifold for two main reasons.

1). No matter how cool or how much of upgrades u do (pump,exterior heat exchanger) the heat exchanger in the manifold can only allow and cool so much fluids at one time l. This becomes an issue when u are pushing the car hard consecutively. Like u I upgraded to the Frozen boost prior to going A2A. What I noticed was recovery time was a lot quicker when I got off the throttle but when pushing the car hard I had the same issues..it's still ran hot and that narrows it down to the interior heat exchanger in the Stillen Manifold.

2) The interior heat exchanger in the manifold takes up a lot of room, which makes it an obstruction for the cold air being blown through the manifold.

Any upgrade from the Stillen is a plus and it should hold up til u can get on the A2A kit. Just be sure to give the car recovery time when ur tracking it (cool down lap) and don't do any upgrades (impelller/pulley). The Stillen kit is made to handle the power and boost it was designed for and nothing more.

__________________
2013 Nismo Z34 / FI TT #091 / IG: @lilzilla_z34

MoulaZ

Yep, that's what I'm starting to realize now as well unfortunately.

Would you consider this conclusion correct? (this is open to all as well)

The reason we can't go with both the 9 PSI Pulley & Impeller Upgrade for the Stillen kits, is because each on their own would increase charge air temps to a level just below dangerous. Putting them both on would cause charge temps to sky rocket well into engine-exploding territory, and this is made worse by the fact the original Stillen design sees the MAFs installed pre-charge, so the ECU would never actually see the correct temps and maybe mitigate things by pulling some timing. All of this effectively is due to the original Stillen W2A design, more specifically the actual Intercooler embedded inside the Intake Manifold which due to it's small size is just not able to absorb enough heat before the charged air enters the engine. If someone wants to properly exploit the potential of the Vortech Superchargers, they would have to change to a traditional A2A Intercooler system which has far more potential to cool the charged air, making the option to install both a high PSI Pulley & Impeller upgrade safe/viable again.

Is any part of that inaccurate or need further elaboration?

*edit* I don't track my car and have no real plans to so it's just street driving with an occasional hard boot. Maybe a handful of times a year also take it to the local drag strip. */edit*

BOLIO 671

You pretty much summed it up.

If u take the car to the drag strip be sure to let her cool down l. Back to back runs are not good for the set up u have...been there and done that....Just to give u a figure I did back to back pulls.on the dyno with the same set up and I lost 10whp on my 2nd pull and almost 15whp on my 3rd run. You won't do ur car justice. Run her down the 1/4 and let her cool down for at least 15-20mins before u run her down again.

__________________
2013 Nismo Z34 / FI TT #091 / IG: @lilzilla_z34

TopgunZ

The one and only advantage the water system has is for the 1/4 mile so that you can dump ice in your system and drop temps below ambient. Again, this would be the only time this would actually be an advantage and would be pointless on any other track or street since the ice will be gone in a minute.

Not to mention that it is a pain in the arse though.

MoulaZ. Your paragraph above really does sum it all up. However, I think that even one of those is still too much heat for longevity of the engine. Why does Stillen make you sign a waiver that voids your warranty to the engine when you order the 9psi pulley?? Because they know it throws reliability to it out the window from too much heat in the system. Basically saying that they don't have confidence it will last 30K miles.

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ROTREX SUPERCHARGER TUNER KITS - $6799/ CUSTOM STILLEN AIR TO AIR KITS -$2100/ 700+ WHP!! WWW.TOPGUNSPEEDWORKS.COM

MoulaZ

I can also see W2A viable for someone who just treats it as a street car, with the occasional hard boot in it every now and then. But yeah, if you wanna track your car or do more than 1 good drag run every 20 mins W2A seems immediately unviable.

I believe Stillen make you sign a waiver because they're aware of just how little cooling capacity the W2A system is capable of, in addition to the whole CARB thing. We see plenty of Turbo kits putting down more power than SC guys, and those seem reasonably reliable, if not intentionally pushing the envelope for some obscence power figure.

Up until recently, I couldn't understand why SC kits were just putting out lower numbers compared to Turbo kits, but if that conclusion I've come to above is really all the reason, heat, then provided you tackle that issue should we be able to match the Turbo guys? Compressed Air is Compressed Air, whether it comes from a Turbo, or Supercharger. Comes down to CFM & Temp, we have the CFM, now it's Temp we have to figure out an effective control. Your kit goes a LONG way to doing that, and keeping it reasonably reliable.

Cheers,
MoulaZ

ChaseZ

Supercharger rely on the crank to turn them and provide power. This takes power and lots of it. Parasitic loss of a supercharger like the V3 is probably in the neighbourhood of 80hp just to crank that blower over.

Turbos basically use exhaust gas, eliminating that parasitic loss from the drivetrain. It's like a free 80hp by comparison.

In a nutshell there is your instant difference between the two, and why supercharger tend to put out less than their turbo brethren. And as far as supercharger go th V3 is more efficient than most of the other types at 78%.

MoulaZ

I'm kinda new to Superchargers, but I know having a Turbo in the path of exhaust also also robs some power, curious how much though, like 15-30?.

And as for Superchargers I think 80hp is a bit high though for the V3, if I had to take a punt I'd say in the region of 50hp.

I've heard some general rule of thumbs like '5hp per PSI' for a Supercharger or 'for every 100hp you make, it cost 30hp for a SC & 10hp for a Turbo'. Just wonder how applicable those are to our circumstances.

ChaseZ

I don't know what the rule of thumb is exactly, but suffice to say it robs substantially more to turn the supercharger. I put out 80 as I've heard it several times with this kit, others have speculated 100. At the end of the day it's neither here nor there though.

The Stillen kit, and information based thereon also considers both the stock Stillen heat exchanger as well as the poor MAF placement. That's the quest I'm on right now is with correcting both of those difficiencies how much better can it get as an improved air to water setup.

A similar setup to how I will be running, except full speed density tuning whereas I will likely be a hybrid when Seb tunes it finally in the coming weeks after the last parts arrive and my custom charge pipe is made, is running 525whp on the track regularly in Texas heat. And I don't mean 1320 where he's sitting at least 20 minutes between passes. I believe he has the stock V3 where mine has the si trim upgraded impeller - I also have 9 psi pulley but aren't running it until I know where this set up is capable of, or not.

JWillis72

How are you running the new charge pipe?



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ChaseZ

The same path but with BOV inline and a lengthened Y section putting the MAF right in front of the TB in separate pipes so they aren't measuring the same air.

JWillis72

I was hoping you were going to say that, one pipe with both MAFs doesn't work.


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